Rico Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Outside of things like F1 and other similar motor sports, name a World Championship decided by the long route of multi-rounds as opposed to the one-off Final...!!?? Powerboating Ski-jumping Air racing Do you need any more ? Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Powerboating Ski-jumping Air racing Do you need any more ? Rico Er, well two of those ARE motor sports are they not..??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Depends how you define champion I suppose. Hmm, you have a problem with the word "Champion" being used to refer to Peter Collins, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Peter Craven, Erik Gundersen, Ole Olsen...; and Ronnie Moore..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Er, well two of those ARE motor sports are they not..??!! Your question was phrased as "Outside of things like F1 and other similar motor sports". If you wished to exclude all Motor Sports then why didn't you ask the question "Outside of all motor sports...." ? Definitely a pattern though, Motor Sport allow the test to be over a number of events, no motor, the majority are one offs. Speedway is just fitting in with an accepted practice. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) But the format of a Darts match, a Tennis match, a Boxing fight etc. are different in that they only ever involve two protagonists.. A Speedway (indiv.) championship has 16... So, yes, it would be inadequate as a sporting endeavour, in every respect, if Taylor vs. Barney yesterday had been decided over a single leg... Why, Henman could've won Wimbledon if he'd only had to win one game ! And though many a fight does end after one round, there are 12 three minutes rounds to negotiate to win that championship Boxing belt.. But all of these are SILL one-off Finals...!! Darts has its 'Premier League' but that competition carries none of the status and public interest of the big World Championship Final... A Speedway World Final can't be the best two just racing against each other 20 times... No, the essence of the sport is four riders in a race... But the 5-rides, meet each opponent once, top points scorer prevails worked for years and IS the fairest way to decide a champion... Outside of things like F1 and other similar motor sports, name a World Championship decided by the long route of multi-rounds as opposed to the one-off Final...!!?? : But you fail to understand the basic principle of darts,snooker and even tennis is they play enough games to eliminate a bit of bad luck producing a Champion.Boxing is another matter altogether and it shows you lack of understanding that you lump it in with the others.Not surprised by that though And the speedway GP series does the same thing.It gives the competitors enough heats to lessen the chance of one bad race or bad refereeing decision deciding the title.That is the basic principle behind it. Why the heck you bring in a Premier League into this god only knows.Speedway has had other competitions,but it is blooming obvious that they didn't carry the same status as the World Championship.Football also has another competition with teams from all continents involved but that also(not surprisingly)doesn't have the same status as the World Cup. And again why you ask about "outside of things like F! and other similar motor sports"!!!!!!!If you haven't noticed speedway is a blooming motor sport So why try to look at how they decide the World Champ in a boxing match is pretty pointless.Not surprised that is what you are trying to do Exactly Rico.Posted while i was replying to the bloke.But he ........... Edited January 5, 2009 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 It's clear that there are two views - but the fact is that the World Final offered (and delivered) something different to the season-long GP system. I accept we have the latter now, but I don't think it's acceptable that this has developed into such a closed shop. The very least that should be happening is that only the top eight can stay in it for next year; with eight positions up for grabs in qualifying. That gives real chances to the ambitious and the talented to break into what otherwise (and currently) looks like an 'old boys' network.. It would also make both the World Championship qualifying process and the GPs themselves a whole lot more interesting... To me, any championship in which one can be in it purely on the largesses of the organisers is NOT a proper one...: and that is a major flaw to all those arguments raised by the pro-GP brigade about "fairness"...!! Might have been nice too if anyone had ever bothered to find an argument against the idea that the WF tested (like an Olympic Final for example) the competitors in the white-hot cauldron of a one-off Final whilst the GPs smack of the LCD (for example when Loram won without, er, winning a single GP..)...: but no-one apparently could so there you go... BTW, iris you mis-read about the Premier League. I was referring to the Darts PL which is indeed very akin to the Speedway GP series in being a season-long version of an individual championship featuring the folk who contest the one-off World Championship...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Didn't mis-read your comment at all.Speedway has had other individual competitions.The Daily Mirror Grand Prix and there was the other Champions thing with all the top riders in Denmark,Germany etc over a few legs.But it plainly not the World Championship(just like your Premier League example)so obviously doesn't hold the same status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Didn't mis-read your comment at all.Speedway has had other individual competitions.The Daily Mirror Grand Prix and there was the other Champions thing with all the top riders in Denmark,Germany etc over a few legs.But it plainly not the World Championship(just like your Premier League example)so obviously doesn't hold the same status. Ah ha...: so WHY didn't the Daily Mirror Grand Prix carry the same status as the World Final then..?? Surely according to your logic it should've been regarded as "better"..??!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ah ha...: so WHY didn't the Daily Mirror Grand Prix carry the same status as the World Final then..?? Surely according to your logic it should've been regarded as "better"..??!!!! Because it wasn't the World Championship derrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Because it wasn't the World Championship derrr A rose by any other name and all that.... The argument - being argued generally by people who don't actually know that much about the old system (yourself excepted!!! ) - has been that the one-off World Final was horribly flawed, could be won by any old rider who "got lucky" (sic) on the day.... etc. And that it's much better to have a series of meetings spread over a longer period of time with the "aggregate" winner a fully deserved champ.. So, IF the World Final really was that pants, then back in 1976 when the GP series was first tried out and contained the World's elite, then surely public opinion would've declared it a fat better alternative and it would've replaced the old World Final..??!!! Didn't happen.. I'll remind you what did though... The winner of that inaugural GP series was Peter Collins...; who, er, "got lucky on the day" etc. in Katowice later that same year to win the WF too....!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Didn't happen.. I'll remind you what did though... The winner of that inaugural GP series was Peter Collins...; who, er, "got lucky on the day" etc. in Katowice later that same year to win the WF too....!!!!!! Glad you didn't include me.Because i am not one who thought the World Final back then was flawed.It generally served it's purpose at that time.But that time has now gone.The World has changed since those days.The World Final was continually changing anyway.From the early days with points carrying over from the quali rounds.Oh heck.Bit similar in a way to the GPs in that the winner on the day might not be World Champ.Then the World didn't want the Final always held at Wembley.Along the way we also had Hans Anderson style politics playing a part when the reigning World Champ was threatened that if he didn't tow the line and sign for his British club he wouldn't be allowed to defend his title.We also had the Americans coming over and for whatever political reason couldn't take part.Didn't we also have Scott Autrey falling foul of political decisions and not being entered into the World Championships ,despite being (probably) their best rider.We also had an unbalanced selection process that enabled riders who were not as good as others eliminated from other parts of the world getting into the Final. Now,give or take one or two riders,we have the best in the World competing regularly against each other.And the most deserving i think comes out on top.I am still not totally happy with it.I would much rather have the GPs starting in say June with a number of quali rounds for the GPs happening in the year of the GPs rather than the year before.But apart from that i do think it is better suited to todays World.Both financial,media and for fans.I thank you And let us not forget that the fore-runner to the World Final,the Star riders Championship was run on similar lines to what you were saying about riders racing each other 20 times.It was a series of match races.Which in the early days were more important that 4 riders in a heat Edited January 5, 2009 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I am still not totally happy with it.I would much rather have the GPs starting in say June with a number of quali rounds for the GPs happening in the year of the GPs rather than the year before. I think that, that is indeed a very sensible idea... The whole way in which qualification (such as there is...) happens the season before goes against a general concept of an annual indiv. championship. Personally I see no harm in a concept that a rider can't have one glorious season (like Havvy back in 1992) and win the ultimate accolade in that year.. Sure the true greats go on for a number of years but that shouldn't preclude others from a chance.... Perhaps the best example is John Louis. Comes to the sport from Moto-cross in his late '20s and yet within a couple of years and in his FIRST season as a First Division rider he's 4th. in the World Championship!! Following it up with a rostrum position a couple of years later!!!! Now THAT could never happen now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
From PC to KC. Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Under this system we have had a situation twice already, where a rider has won the GP round on the night, but taken away less championship counting points than a rider who finished further down the pecking order. Therefore like Loram who won a World title without actually winning a GP, we could see someone go through an entire season without being on the rostrum being crowned champion. Thus proving himself the most consistent but ultimately unremarkable. This is due to the 2 semi final syndrome, where you can score 15 in the heats and get beat by someone who only scored 7 or 8pts from their heats. Prehaps we should have only the top 4 scorers on the night qualify for the final, barring any tied scores. Then in the final just 4pts for 1st place, 3 for 2nd ,2pts for third,and 1pt for last. All other competitors scored are totally discarded and we move on to the next GP. Then only the top 4 at the end of the season gain automatic qualification for next season, and the rest battle out a series of events to get back in, with other riders who have been trying to break into the GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.