iris123 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Iris, it's maybe "only 1 GP", but significantly it's the most recent. And since the farce of Gelsenkirchen and the following whitewash by BSI with the likes of Ole Olsen having escaped without reprimand, who can travel abroad to a GP meeting with any confidence? It will still be Olsen buggering up these tracks. I suggest GP attendances figures will be down in 2009 for three reasons: 1. The credit crunch 2. Gelsenkirchen 2008 3. People are getting bored of the GP series All the best Rob I think no.1 is the significant factor.Not sure the other 2 + Ole will have any real effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Spot on... Sport is meant to be about entertainment and excitement isn't it..? That's from the spectator point of view.. As a test of competitors too, the highest level of sport is all about rising to the challenge of a massively pressurised competition.. Take for example the Olympics track and field...: no second chances there..! The GP is significantly easier from that point of view...: mess up one race, several races...: never mind..: plenty of time to recover in future Rounds.. The World Final was the ULTIMATE test and was also massively tense and exciting. And that applied whether in a "field" in Germany or in the world's most famous stadium (Wembley). Thankfully the huge majority of the one-off Finals were in superb stadia (Wembley, Ullevi, Katowice etc.) rather than the oft-mentioned Nordens of this world... So its not entertainment then ? How many gp have you been to then to come to this statement then, or are you just a tv watcher ? You talk complete crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Why had only 4,000 tickets be sold for Gelsenkirchen, then? All the best Rob The fact that Germany were playing Russia, 25 minutes up the road in Dortmund, on the same day in a World Cup qualifier might have had some influence. As stated by Iris123 the previous GP at Gelsenkirchen was poorly attended and I had heard that BSI had done a 2 year deal on the stadium so they would have been hence my belief in the consipacy theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 So its not entertainment then ? How many gp have you been to then to come to this statement then, or are you just a tv watcher ? You talk complete crap. You are really getting on my nerves.. All you EVER do is be rude and hurl insults. Try reading the points made and responding to them, because frankly m8 at the moment you're making a complete show of yourself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thischarmingman Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 You are really getting on my nerves.. All you EVER do is be rude and hurl insults. Try reading the points made and responding to them, because frankly m8 at the moment you're making a complete show of yourself.... 'The Know' seems to post the most inane rubbish ever, having just had a flick through his recent posts. Some charming racist/xenophobic comments over the last couple of weeks (with the occasional smiley inserted - means you're only joking right?) Nothing to say, but posts all the time anyway, typical attention seeker with nothing better to do with his time. He's right that the GP series is far better than a once a year lottery though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 You are really getting on my nerves.. All you EVER do is be rude and hurl insults. Try reading the points made and responding to them, because frankly m8 at the moment you're making a complete show of yourself.... And all you ever do is moan about the same thing. Yes the gp could be far better but at the end of the day its what it is. I go to pretty much all of them and have since 2003 and always have a good time. If you dont like it dont go or switch ya tele off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 'The Know' seems to post the most inane rubbish ever, having just had a flick through his recent posts. Some charming racist/xenophobic comments over the last couple of weeks (with the occasional smiley inserted - means you're only joking right?) Nothing to say, but posts all the time anyway, typical attention seeker with nothing better to do with his time. He's right that the GP series is far better than a once a year lottery though. I say it as i see it. Most of the topics are pointless and written about something they havnt got a clue about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I say it as i see it. Most of the topics are pointless and written about something they havnt got a clue about. Hmm, well for someone who allegedly knows more than everyone else, seems strange that your response to an argument you don't agree with, is not to address any of the points of those "who havnt {sic} got a clue" but simply to hurl insults at them...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
From PC to KC. Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I love these threads were people put forward their very valid ideas for the SGP and SWC yet you always get the rose-tinted dinosaurs crawling out from where they hide (presumably a cave) to diktat the virtues of the one-off World Final. Personally I think the SGP is excellent. I have watched my highlights DVD and the racing is as good as any of the one-off Finals but with 11 rounds you get a far better variety of tracks and conditions. Frankly as has been said before, no modern sport has a "one-off" world championship, from F1 to football and everything in between. . Depends on your definition of "One off" Lets take that minority sport Football, in the one off game to determine the world champions Italy vs France 09/07/2006, how many legs were used to decide the winners, ONE MATCH. Also in the minority sport of Football again, how many games did Manchester United take to beat Chelsea to become European Champions, ONE MATCH. Under the old system you had to win your place in the final through a series of tough qualifiers, of course bad luck could influence the result, but it still does today, no matter how you dress it up. However the one off was a true challenge of putting it altogether on the night, better than the rest. Much less room for error, yes you could win on 12 or 13 pts, whereas you can win a gp now on anything as little as 7 from your heats. We need to cut right down to 4 rounds in my opinion to get back some tension, cut throat racing where you can't afford a slip up, maintain some semblance of a chance for the majority of competitors after 2 rounds etc. These 4 rounds would be in the 4 major nations Poland ,UK, Denmark and Sweden, thus leaving riders free to concentrate on league speedway for most of the season. These gp,s could be like the Grand slam events in Golf and Tennis etc, more meaningful than 2 bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 But there still does seem to be clubs/stadia that are clamouring to host a GP,so there must be something in it for them. For the tracks in the smaller countries, I suspect it's mostly a prestige thing. I'd be amazed if they aren't subsidising the GPs from their club funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Depends on your definition of "One off" Lets take that minority sport Football, in the one off game to determine the world champions Italy vs France 09/07/2006, how many legs were used to decide the winners, ONE MATCH. Also in the minority sport of Football again, how many games did Manchester United take to beat Chelsea to become European Champions, ONE MATCH. Under the old system you had to win your place in the final through a series of tough qualifiers, of course bad luck could influence the result, but it still does today, no matter how you dress it up. However the one off was a true challenge of putting it altogether on the night, better than the rest. Much less room for error, yes you could win on 12 or 13 pts, whereas you can win a gp now on anything as little as 7 from your heats. An excellent posting: perfectly sums it up.. The most successful sports always decide their principal titles in a 'one-off' final. Those you've mentioned; the Olympics Athletics (indeed obviously ALL events in the Olympics); Wimbledon Tennis etc., etc. It's the mark of a GREAT champion that they can rise to the ultimate challenge.. The Athletics example is interesting. Their GP series attracts much money throu gh sponsorship and a lot of publicity and is very lucrative for its winners; but who has a clue who won the 100 metres GP in 2008..?? Whereas no-one will ever forget that Usain Bolt won the Olympic Final..!! So, yes an excellent posting from 'PC/KC': no doubt the eponymous 'The Know' (sic) will be calling it crap any mo...!! PS it was the equally-daftly named Asafa Powell who triumphed in the GP...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 An excellent posting: perfectly sums it up.. The most successful sports always decide their principal titles in a 'one-off' final. Those you've mentioned; the Olympics Athletics (indeed obviously ALL events in the Olympics); Wimbledon Tennis etc., etc. It's the mark of a GREAT champion that they can rise to the ultimate challenge.. The Athletics example is interesting. Their GP series attracts much money throu gh sponsorship and a lot of publicity and is very lucrative for its winners; but who has a clue who won the 100 metres GP in 2008..?? Whereas no-one will ever forget that Usain Bolt won the Olympic Final..!! So, yes an excellent posting from 'PC/KC': no doubt the eponymous 'The Know' (sic) will be calling it crap any mo...!! PS it was the equally-daftly named Asafa Powell who triumphed in the GP...!! Fantastic idea cant wait. Ref athletics only bolt i know is on my front door . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fantastic idea cant wait. Ref athletics only bolt i know is on my front door . And it's certainly tempting to apply that particular bolt...!!! I guess it's topical having just listening to the dulcet tones of none other than our very own Nige and one of my first Speedway announcing heroes, the peerless Dave Lanning on Sky, to go with a Darts analogy... You see The Know, you chastise me for watching the SGP rounds from my settee - sorry to disappoint but I don't watch them at all.. I also don't watch the 'Premier League of Darts' but I sure as hell watch the Darts World Championship. The difference...?? Well, that's obvious, isn't it...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 You see The Know, you chastise me for watching the SGP rounds from my settee - sorry to disappoint but I don't watch them at all.. I also don't watch the 'Premier League of Darts' but I sure as hell watch the Darts World Championship. The difference...?? Well, that's obvious, isn't it...!!! Are you serious? I can understand that you have your preferences, and would rather see a one off world final, but I can't believe that anyone that truly enjoys speedway would fail to watch the GPs on TV if they had the chance. It might not be the same as the old World Final, but it's still the best riders in the World going handlebar to handlebar....I wouldn't miss one on TV if I couldn't be there in person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Are you serious? I can understand that you have your preferences, and would rather see a one off world final, but I can't believe that anyone that truly enjoys speedway would fail to watch the GPs on TV if they had the chance. It might not be the same as the old World Final, but it's still the best riders in the World going handlebar to handlebar....I wouldn't miss one on TV if I couldn't be there in person! I think he is serious.He goes on and on about the one off World Finals being better than the GPs.Then admits that "i don't watch them at all.." Not really in the best position to make an informed judgment.Just a prejudiced view.I admit on the day there is nothing better than a one off World Final,but the GPs do provide some excellent speedway.It is a good idea and i can't see speedway going back to the old days.Just like we ain't going to see Lewis Hamilton and the other sprint from the pits,jump in their cars and start a GP like Fangio did,however romantic those days seemed And if we take Darts(as Parsloes mentions it)or Snooker for instance.They don't just have one game which would be very tense indeed.No,to try and make sure that the best person wins they have many games between the two opponents.More as the Finals progress i think.Which ensures really that the best Darts or Snooker player in the World wins.But Parsloes wants the Speedway world title to be decided on a bad or good piece of luck in a one day World Final Edited January 4, 2009 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 And it's certainly tempting to apply that particular bolt...!!! I guess it's topical having just listening to the dulcet tones of none other than our very own Nige and one of my first Speedway announcing heroes, the peerless Dave Lanning on Sky, to go with a Darts analogy... You see The Know, you chastise me for watching the SGP rounds from my settee - sorry to disappoint but I don't watch them at all.. I also don't watch the 'Premier League of Darts' but I sure as hell watch the Darts World Championship. The difference...?? Well, that's obvious, isn't it...!!! If you dont go to the gp or watch them on tv how do you know its not entertaining. Out of interest have you ever been to one of the old world finals ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you dont go to the gp or watch them on tv how do you know its not entertaining. Out of interest have you ever been to one of the old world finals ? Yes I went to World Finals at Wembley & Bradford, at Ullevi and even that apparently notorious one in Norden. An excellent weekend of drinking was had in northern Germany that year...!!! I have NEVER commented on the particular quality of racing in a GP - that's not my beef... But it's rather like chastising a devoted fan of Manchester United (someone like Blazeaway!!! ) for not going to see United play in a pre-season tournament... That fan may regard such friendly games as a waste of time... I don't tend to watch the GPs on TV because (1) I have little interest in them as they more often than not have little one-off excitement or value as events; (2) my real interest is, and always has been, in lower league and grass-roots Speedway; and (3) I am often too busy either going to Speedway here or writing for the various progs and publications I have commitments to.. And if we take Darts(as Parsloes mentions it)or Snooker for instance.They don't just have one game which would be very tense indeed.No,to try and make sure that the best person wins they have many games between the two opponents.More as the Finals progress i think.Which ensures really that the best Darts or Snooker player in the World wins.But Parsloes wants the Speedway world title to be decided on a bad or good piece of luck in a one day World Final Blimey, this is hard work...!! What are you on about iris..?? You know full well that the 16 riders in a World Final didn't just turn up on the day... Like Phil Taylor winning the Darts, they also had to negotiate qualifying rounds.. Indeed it's the GPs which, uniquely, allow people in them who've NOT had to qualify, who are just put in there...: even if they've tried to qualify and failed or failed to stay in the prerequisite top eight the year before!! And of course, if like Hans Andersen in 2004 your face doesn't fit and they leave you out, you can have the season of your life the next year but it matters not a jot coz 'politics' has frozen you out. That's not sport in my book...!!! Again though, no-one EVER responds to any of the arguments made by me (and plenty others...) about the special nature and special qualities of a one-off Final. The one-off Final is the stable format of the huge majority of sports, always has been and always will.. I WON'T drag out the stats again which show that the old World Speedway Final was dominated by a very small number of top riders for decades... It wasn't a lottery, decided by "a good piece of luck".. It was the TRUE test of greatness and more to the point, a fantastic, well-loved, massively supported event. I've been to two British GPs, BTW...: one at Cardiff and the original one in 1996 at Hackney. The only one, incidentally, where the World Champ was crowned on British soil since the GPs started. As things stand we'll NEVER see that happen again and that's a crying shame IMHO for GB Speedway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Blimey, this is hard work...!! What are you on about iris..?? Quite simple really Parsloes.In essence, darts or snooker have lot's of games between the competitors to eliminate or at the very least lessen the chance of luck(good or bad)playing a role in deciding who becomes World Champ.The Speedway GP series does the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Quite simple really Parsloes.In essence, darts or snooker have lot's of games between the competitors to eliminate or at the very least lessen the chance of luck(good or bad)playing a role in deciding who becomes World Champ.The Speedway GP series does the same thing. But the format of a Darts match, a Tennis match, a Boxing fight etc. are different in that they only ever involve two protagonists.. A Speedway (indiv.) championship has 16... So, yes, it would be inadequate as a sporting endeavour, in every respect, if Taylor vs. Barney yesterday had been decided over a single leg... Why, Henman could've won Wimbledon if he'd only had to win one game ! And though many a fight does end after one round, there are 12 three minutes rounds to negotiate to win that championship Boxing belt.. But all of these are SILL one-off Finals...!! Darts has its 'Premier League' but that competition carries none of the status and public interest of the big World Championship Final... A Speedway World Final can't be the best two just racing against each other 20 times... No, the essence of the sport is four riders in a race... But the 5-rides, meet each opponent once, top points scorer prevails worked for years and IS the fairest way to decide a champion... Outside of things like F1 and other similar motor sports, name a World Championship decided by the long route of multi-rounds as opposed to the one-off Final...!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 But the format of a Darts match, a Tennis match, a Boxing fight etc. are different in that they only ever involve two protagonists.. A Speedway (indiv.) championship has 16... So, yes, it would be inadequate as a sporting endeavour, in every respect, if Taylor vs. Barney yesterday had been decided over a single leg... Why, Henman could've won Wimbledon if he'd only had to win one game ! And though many a fight does end after one round, there are 12 three minutes rounds to negotiate to win that championship Boxing belt.. But all of these are SILL one-off Finals...!! Darts has its 'Premier League' but that competition carries none of the status and public interest of the big World Championship Final... A Speedway World Final can't be the best two just racing against each other 20 times... No, the essence of the sport is four riders in a race... But the 5-rides, meet each opponent once, top points scorer prevails worked for years and IS the fairest way to decide a champion... Outside of things like F1 and other similar motor sports, name a World Championship decided by the long route of multi-rounds as opposed to the one-off Final...!!?? Depends how you define champion I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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