Fourentee Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 We even thought of recreating the pushbar grab at the farewell but we're not sure how Sam might feel... Bruised, I imagine. Incidentally, as someone remarked to me about the 'choose your gates' innovation for KO Cup matches this season, imagine Wolves and Cradley with two riders from the same team on the inside..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 I would be just the same as having Sam off the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENFOLD Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Didnt they both do that before the chequered flag came down during a race at Dudley Wood one year and one of them came off (think it was Billy) costing them a 5-1 and the Heathens the match, prompting Colin Pratt to ban them doing it before the end of a heat it was Cradley versus Swindon and it was the last race both on a 5-1 and on the last bend Peter Nahlin sneaked through as a result for 2nd place and also a 45-45 Draw Colin Pratt was livid as you said it cost them the win and he banned them doing it again. I can remember it well as a few swindon fans got an earbashing from Scott Smith's mum .Scott fell in one race but before he fell he was passed by again Peter Nahlin . The Swindon fans were cheering the pass but Scott's mum thought they were cheering the fall and it got a bit heated. Unlike a few other fans the Swindn fans were very apologetic and explained that they would never cheer a fallen rider unlike some Wolves Fans who seem to do this all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) I just hope they recreate the greatest heat ever... Heat 15, Dudley Wolves Trophy second leg at Monmore, August Bank Holiday Monday 1992. Gate 1; Greg Hancock Gate 2; Sam Ermolenko Gate 3; Billy Hamill Gate 4; Ronnie Correy It was awesome. Anyone else remember it Wolves had gone down by 20+ points at Dudley Wood earlier in the day mostly due to Ermolenko falling off allot and Wolves loanee Andy Phillips scoring 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 0 from reserve for Cradley. His duck egg in heat 15 is long since forgiven & if not forgotten due to the end result. The Monmore men could however restore some pride with a heat advatage in the final heat. Scott Smith had obviously taken Stephen Morris out in heat 2 (or 4) as he always did (purely due to his inabilty to get around the tight turns) and both were at New Cross by the time the race occured. Phillips had made Cradley loanee Nigel Leaver look a muppet for most of the night as both had 7 rides So does anyone remember what happened Edited December 24, 2008 by Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted December 24, 2008 Report Share Posted December 24, 2008 I just hope they recreate the greatest heat ever... Heat 15, Dudley Wolves Trophy second leg at Monmore, August Bank Holiday Monday 1992. Gate 1; Greg Hancock Gate 2; Sam Ermolenko Gate 3; Billy Hamill Gate 4; Ronnie Correy It was awesome. Anyone else remember it... If I just post :lol: does that tell you whether I remember it or not? Smith and Morris hated each other. Next time I see you remind me to tell you what was said to me after their 'incident' in the same fixture the following(?) season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I just hope they recreate the greatest heat ever... Heat 15, Dudley Wolves Trophy second leg at Monmore, August Bank Holiday Monday 1992. Gate 1; Greg Hancock Gate 2; Sam Ermolenko Gate 3; Billy Hamill Gate 4; Ronnie Correy It was awesome. Anyone else remember it Wolves had gone down by 20+ points at Dudley Wood earlier in the day mostly due to Ermolenko falling off allot and Wolves loanee Andy Phillips scoring 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 0 from reserve for Cradley. His duck egg in heat 15 is long since forgiven & if not forgotten due to the end result. The Monmore men could however restore some pride with a heat advatage in the final heat. Scott Smith had obviously taken Stephen Morris out in heat 2 (or 4) as he always did (purely due to his inabilty to get around the tight turns) and both were at New Cross by the time the race occured. Phillips had made Cradley loanee Nigel Leaver look a muppet for most of the night as both had 7 rides So does anyone remember what happened Unsure if its the right year, but I am guessing you are referring to in the first running of the heat Ermolenko (or Correy, can't remember which first) was excluded on the 1st turn. And on the second running Correy excluded. Thus allowing Hancock & Hamill to ride 4 laps of wheelies for a 5-0. I remember being angry with the referee on the night, not for the fact that Cradley got a 5-0 (although that was bad enough) but simply for ruining what would have been a great race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 That's the one. The Wolves duo collided on the first turn resulting in Ermolenko (I believe) being excluded (as both riders hit the deck causing the race to be stopped). This was followed by Correy falling on the first turn of the re-run without any help from the Cradley lads. Hamill completed his maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Funnily enough I was at the first leg in 1992 on the August Bank Holiday morning. Only ever made two trips to Dudley Wood, the other being the Golden Hammer (might have been the same year) when Sudden Sam won it with a fifteen pointer. My main memeory from that Cradley v Wolves clash was Simon Cross taking exception to a decision from the referee and giving him the V sign...he then came round to the back straight and did the same to the Wolves fans That day was a bit of a speedway feast...we saw Cradley v Wolves in the morning, managed to see a bit of P'boro v Edinburgh on the way back in the afternoon and then got to Lynn for an evening Inter League Challenge against the Panthers. Great days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Billy and I touched base last night. Once new years is out of the way it is full steam ahead on both sides of the pond. There is a very experienced and capable testimonial comittee in place in the UK. The US based folk will be getting together in about a week. There are lots of exciting ideas being thrown about and its a case of formulating the best of these into a format that will do a meeting like this all it deserves. Stay tuned for more news shortly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docmccoy Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Just a lil off the main subject, but I have often wondered why there is not a 'senior tour' in speedway, like in golf. A rider who retires is often hanging it up either because they dont want the rigors of a full season or they are not signed by a team (Les & Neil Collins, Paul Thorp). Maybe a 12 round touring GP-esque series would go down well with fans? Take in UK and Europe, I'm sure it would be very popular. Because of the small sized tracks riders in American race to much older agaes, and whilst over 40 or 50 riders may not be competitive in European leagues, I am sure they could put on a show against each other. I think the riders in the US like Faria, McConnell - and let's be frank, was never good enough to keep a work permit, even with a second chance - Schwartz, Bart Bast - another failure at Swindon - etc, etc, are so dominant in the US is because with the exception of Ricky Wells, the youngsters aren't good enough to knock them off their perch. During the days of Penhall, Mike Bast, Alan Christian, Dubb Ferrell, etc, you didn't get 45+ age group getting a look in. And so you shouldn't for your sport to be healthy. It's a sad fact that after Hamill and Hancock, America hasn't had a quality rider come to Europe who can measure up to the task. Fisher had the ability but not the temperment, Janniro just wants to have a good time, and Chris Kerr is still learning his trade but I fear he will never trouble the world's top 30 riders. The significant role played by the old guard says more about the state of speedway in the US than it does about their experience and longevity, or the tiny nature of the tracks. We had a sort of senior thing once before called the Golden Greats run by Barry Briggs. It was fun, but those days are gone, and while they're great to look back on, let's get behind the sport of today to help ensure its future well-being, instead of hankering for the days that are not going to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 My main memeory from that Cradley v Wolves clash was Simon Cross taking exception to a decision from the referee and giving him the V sign...he then came round to the back straight and did the same to the Wolves fans Ahhhhh those were the days. Billy and I touched base last night... I hope you mentioned that a Cradley vs Wolves meeting seems a favourite option amongst the British fans?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) I think the riders in the US like Faria, McConnell - and let's be frank, was never good enough to keep a work permit, even with a second chance - Schwartz, Bart Bast - another failure at Swindon - etc, etc, are so dominant in the US is because with the exception of Ricky Wells, the youngsters aren't good enough to knock them off their perch. During the days of Penhall, Mike Bast, Alan Christian, Dubb Ferrell, etc, you didn't get 45+ age group getting a look in. And so you shouldn't for your sport to be healthy. It's a sad fact that after Hamill and Hancock, America hasn't had a quality rider come to Europe who can measure up to the task. Fisher had the ability but not the temperment, Janniro just wants to have a good time, and Chris Kerr is still learning his trade but I fear he will never trouble the world's top 30 riders. The significant role played by the old guard says more about the state of speedway in the US than it does about their experience and longevity, or the tiny nature of the tracks. Compared to 10 years ago I would say the long term future of American Speedway is better today. Whilst some of the big names have retired from that era, there is much more junior and young rider activity than in 97, plus there are 7 tracks as opposed to 2. The young riders we have do have a long way to go and we need more of them. As regards older riders - you can't really make the comparison of the era of Penhall, Bast etc as there were not any 45+ riders racing in those days. The smaller tracks do favor experience and anyone who disputes that should take heed of the usual podium places McConnell and Schwartz get at Brighton, plus how EL riders get beaten at the annual USA Vs The World at Auburn. That said, we do have a couple of faster tracks now (Victorville and Perris) and the older riders generally have a much harder time beating the younger ones (Victorville is a mini Exeter and is breathtakingly fast). Ricky Wells won't be the last rider to make it to Europe from the US. I would say 16 year old Jason Ramirez is an amzing prospect and he has already made Main Events at Costa Mesa and Victorville. We have 13 year old Austin Novratl whose race times at Perris are within 0.5 second / lap of Ricky Wells, though Austin is riding a 250cc bike. I'm not promising anyone World domination in the next 10 years but I am saying we will be back and better than the present. Edited January 1, 2009 by SteveEvans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Ahhhhh those were the days. I hope you mentioned that a Cradley vs Wolves meeting seems a favourite option amongst the British fans?! Wolves Cradley is never far away from our conversations but the main problem is this is the fact that 12 years on there are not enough Cradley riders left to make a team. But don't discount something that will get all the Black Country fans very excited... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docmccoy Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Compared to 10 years ago I would say the long term future of American Speedway is better today. Whilst some of the big names have retired from that era, there is much more junior and young rider activity than in 97, plus there are 7 tracks as opposed to 2. The young riders we have do have a long way to go and we need more of them. As regards older riders - you can't really make the comparison of the era of Penhall, Bast etc as there were not any 45+ riders racing in those days. The smaller tracks do favor experience and anyone who disputes that should take heed of the usual podium places McConnell and Schwartz get at Brighton, plus how EL riders get beaten at the annual USA Vs The World at Auburn. That said, we do have a couple of faster tracks now (Victorville and Perris) and the older riders generally have a much harder time beating the younger ones (Victorville is a mini Exeter and is breathtakingly fast). Ricky Wells won't be the last rider to make it to Europe from the US. I would say 16 year old Jason Ramirez is an amzing prospect and he has already made Main Events at Costa Mesa and Victorville. We have 13 year old Austin Novratl whose race times at Perris are within 0.5 second / lap of Ricky Wells, though Austin is riding a 250cc bike. I'm not promising anyone World domination in the next 10 years but I am saying we will be back and better than the present. Exactly, there wasn't any old boys over 45 riding then because they couldn't handle it - except I recall Alex Gray riding in the Second Divsion in the early to mid eighties. As for Brighton, it's so different that it's not a yardstick really and it's not exactly a hot bed of competition. Bryan Yarrow did very well at Brighton and was a big disappointment at Coventry. It's good to hear of some more youngsters getting involved, but while McConnell and Faria can continue to win main events out there, you're not going to convince me. The point is, old boys are great for helping the youngsters learn the ropes, but when they can continue to win main events, how long is it before you have to acknowledge that if they can't consistently see off a has-been from Europe, that they just haven't got what it takes to be an international rider. I agree that small tracks can favour experienced riders, but so too can the long fast ones. Take Bydgoszcz in Poland for example, heralded by many as the best track in the world, it takes the less experienced riders a while to get used to that even though its fast because you almost have to do a diamond in the corners. Hope all goes well for Billy's meeting though, he was the last of great racers from the states, and at his best, winning was all that mattered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Exactly, there wasn't any old boys over 45 riding then because they couldn't handle it - except I recall Alex Gray riding in the Second Divsion in the early to mid eighties. As for Brighton, it's so different that it's not a yardstick really and it's not exactly a hot bed of competition. Bryan Yarrow did very well at Brighton and was a big disappointment at Coventry. It's good to hear of some more youngsters getting involved, but while McConnell and Faria can continue to win main events out there, you're not going to convince me. The point is, old boys are great for helping the youngsters learn the ropes, but when they can continue to win main events, how long is it before you have to acknowledge that if they can't consistently see off a has-been from Europe, that they just haven't got what it takes to be an international rider. I agree that small tracks can favour experienced riders, but so too can the long fast ones. Take Bydgoszcz in Poland for example, heralded by many as the best track in the world, it takes the less experienced riders a while to get used to that even though its fast because you almost have to do a diamond in the corners. Hope all goes well for Billy's meeting though, he was the last of great racers from the states, and at his best, winning was all that mattered. There were not many old boys as the modern day sport was only about 7 years old in the 70's when Bast and Penhall rode. You are right regarding the perception of the sport in Europe about old riders still winning, which is why we started the Dream Team. That said, Tim Gomez, Neil Facchini, Russell Green and Jimmy Fishback all were maiden main event winners and Buck Blair, Ricky Wells and Shaun Harmatiuk also won main's this year meaning that the pendulum is swinging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docmccoy Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 There were not many old boys as the modern day sport was only about 7 years old in the 70's when Bast and Penhall rode. You are right regarding the perception of the sport in Europe about old riders still winning, which is why we started the Dream Team. That said, Tim Gomez, Neil Facchini, Russell Green and Jimmy Fishback all were maiden main event winners and Buck Blair, Ricky Wells and Shaun Harmatiuk also won main's this year meaning that the pendulum is swinging. Granted there weren't many 'old boys' in the '70s, but I was referring to the days when America had a team on the world's stage, from 78 when the likes Cook, Morans, Sigalos, etc all began making big waves over here. Didn't the likes Ermolenko and Lance King stay home in the mid-80s? Ask Billy about that period, he was a kid growing up as a junior then and you had five weekly tracks at one stage - Costa Mesa, San Bernardino, Carlsbad, Ascot South Bay, Ventura and Carlsbad. That was ultra-competitive for a time. And you had a thriving junior programme too, Hancock, Hamill, Josh Larsen came out of that, but what happened to Jesse Finch? Anyway, let's beg to differ on this, I have seen Harmatiuk and Blair and I dont think either of them would bother the Bullet right now even though he hasn't raced since early last season. Can't comment on the others because I haven't seen them race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Granted there weren't many 'old boys' in the '70s, but I was referring to the days when America had a team on the world's stage, from 78 when the likes Cook, Morans, Sigalos, etc all began making big waves over here. Didn't the likes Ermolenko and Lance King stay home in the mid-80s? Ask Billy about that period, he was a kid growing up as a junior then and you had five weekly tracks at one stage - Costa Mesa, San Bernardino, Carlsbad, Ascot South Bay, Ventura and Carlsbad. That was ultra-competitive for a time. And you had a thriving junior programme too, Hancock, Hamill, Josh Larsen came out of that, but what happened to Jesse Finch? Anyway, let's beg to differ on this, I have seen Harmatiuk and Blair and I dont think either of them would bother the Bullet right now even though he hasn't raced since early last season. Can't comment on the others because I haven't seen them race. Oh trust me, I know there is no comparison between the 80s and now. The US riders in the EL and our World Team Cup results show there is much work to do. That said, thanks more to a handful of dedicated individuals rather than the AMA, our sport is in better shape here for the future as something is being done about it. When Costa Mesa threatened to close in 2000 it could have been the death sentence. In the 1980s riders stayed home as they could make a lot of money in the US. Now they are racing for CL monies, all part of the decline of the sport in the 1990s that we are working hard to turn around. Jesse Finch retired after '97 with injuries. He made a brief return in 2006 and is in attendence at Costa Mesa most weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Wolves Cradley is never far away from our conversations but the main problem is this is the fact that 12 years on there are not enough Cradley riders left to make a team. But don't discount something that will get all the Black Country fans very excited... Depends what format you wanted. Billy, Greg, Pete Nahlin, Phil Collins, Bobby all still riding. Tempt Simon Cross and Big Al back into a pair of leathers for a spin and you've got seven. And for Wolves - Freddie, Sam, Ronnie, Wayne Carter, Graham Jones, Charles Ermolenko, Tony Atkin. There you go. Okay, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Depends what format you wanted. Billy, Greg, Pete Nahlin, Phil Collins, Bobby all still riding. Tempt Simon Cross and Big Al back into a pair of leathers for a spin and you've got seven. And for Wolves - Freddie, Sam, Ronnie, Wayne Carter, Graham Jones, Charles Ermolenko, Tony Atkin. There you go. Okay, maybe not. Watch this space Mr 21st, I don't think you'll be displeased if some of the ideas bounced around come to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Hey, as long as Billy gets his butt back on a bike and Greg gets his butt over here for the day I'll be one very happy speedway fan. Butt = The extent of translation into American for that sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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