Americans Nasty Attitudes

[BOBBATH]

Ok Tony as per your answer re Dave Jessup and his alleged attitude-you basically said while Dave was ok -the Americans -well that was another story and good for a separate thread.So here is the new thread-any comments from anyone re American riders nasty attitudes or otherwise!!

[SHALEWAY69]

Ok Tony as per your answer re Dave Jessup and his alleged attitude-you basically said while Dave was ok -the Americans -well that was another story and good for a separate thread.So here is the new thread-any comments from anyone re American riders nasty attitudes or otherwise!!

 

OK How about Bruce Penhalls attitude in the 1982 inter- continental final. at White City. He blatantly threw the race to allow his American team mates to qualify for the world final in america. if you watch it on Youtube he just pulls up after making the gate, and makes no attempt to race. but it his attitude in the post race interview that was really dissapointing.

 

[SHALEWAY69]

OK How about Bruce Penhalls attitude in the 1982 inter- continental final. at White City. He blatantly threw the race to allow his American team mates to qualify for the world final in america. if you watch it on Youtube he just pulls up after making the gate, and makes no attempt to race. but it his attitude in the post race interview that was really dissapointing.

PS I Have to say I cannot find this clip on you tube now, anyone relse recall the episode

 

[mervjankefanclub]

I remember it and I have seen it Shaleway, but I wouldnt say it was a nasty attitude he was just helping out his compatriots which has always gone on in speedway. To be honest something like doesnt bother me in the slightest, I know the English fans werent happy with him and made their feelings known, I may be wrong but didnt his actions stop an English rider from qualifying, which may have fueled the fire a bit more than it may have done otherwise In my opinion Bruce Penhall was superb for speedway at the time. As for the others I always thought the Yanks from Autrey right through to Hancock were all pretty laid back and approachable guys and they certainly brightened up British speedway in the late 70s and 80s. I remember Shooey Moran coming to Craighead Park for Jim Beatons testimonial and he couldnt have been more charming, and I dont recall any stories of nasty attitudes, although being a NL fan away up here I may have missed something

Edited October 20, 2008 by mervjankefanclub

[cityrebel]

PS I Have to say I cannot find this clip on you tube now, anyone relse recall the episode

i was at the white city that day and remember the incident like it was yesterday. penhall made no attempt to race and just cruised round at the back. on the parade truck he was loudly booed and pelted with all kinds of objects. he looked really shocked at the crowds reactions but in my eyes he deserved it. all he had to do was go through the tapes or have an ef. to cheat like that with no regard for fair play was a disgrace.

[Jeff.]

OK How about Bruce Penhalls attitude in the 1982 inter- continental final. at White City. He blatantly threw the race to allow his American team mates to qualify for the world final in america. if you watch it on Youtube he just pulls up after making the gate, and makes no attempt to race. but it his attitude in the post race interview that was really dissapointing.

 

It was the overseas final not the ICF, it was no different to what regulary went on, in a lot of cases with money changing hands, Penhall's mistake was, as you say, making it totally blatant

 

[TwoMinuteWarning]

Seem to remember Australia letting Sweden win a SWC round a few years ago, which stopped GB winning. It happens, no problem.

 

Seems to me that Americans are no worse than any other nation in terms of "nasty attitudes", and probably better than most! In general they are good value, strong personalities, and usually very popular, so they are a great asset to the sport I think.

 

 

[asturmer]

I remember it and I have seen it Shaleway, but I wouldnt say it was a nasty attitude he was just helping out his compatriots which has always gone on in speedway. To be honest something like doesnt bother me in the slightest, I know the English fans werent happy with him and made their feelings known, I may be wrong but didnt his actions stop an English rider from qualifying, which may have fueled the fire a bit more than it may have done otherwise In my opinion Bruce Penhall was superb for speedway at the time. As for the others I always thought the Yanks from Autrey right through to Hancock were all pretty laid back and approachable guys and they certainly brightened up British speedway in the late 70s and 80s. I remember Shooey Moran coming to Craighead Park for Jim Beatons testimonial and he couldnt have been more charming, and I dont recall any stories of nasty attitudes, although being a NL fan away up here I may have missed something

 

Do you know what happened to the Moran brothers. I have seen a photo of Kelly at a recent reunion and have heard negative stories in Australia about the fate of Shawn who was brilliant in his day!!

[BOBBATH]

Anybody aout there recall DeWayne Keeter -first of the modern era-1969 I think.

[WATigerman]

...Shawn who was brilliant in his day!!

 

No he wasn't. He was much better than that.

 

[spin king]

I remember the Penhall business well, the thing was that he came out to race, but did the completely opposite, he could have faked an engine failure, but I think he thought that he was bullet proof with the British fans. To be honest he was put under pressure from the USA federation to get as many Americans through to the World final, which was held in L.A. He then went onto leave his British club in lurch by retiring from the sport after his World Final win.

Onto the Moran brothers, I have heard unconfirmed reports that both are back into the States, but have both fallen hard times and apparently Shawn especially I have been told is penniless, sorry to see two of the most talented riders in their own era fall on hard times.

[mervjankefanclub]

No he wasn't. He was much better than that.

 

One of my favourite riders of all time is Shooey. I have said it before on another thread, but the sight of him blasting round Craighead Park was very surreal. He was probably the only genuine world superstar who visited that place. Apart from the one who appeared every week, obviously

[chunky]

Anybody aout there recall DeWayne Keeter -first of the modern era-1969 I think.

 

Yep, I remember seeing him at Plough Lane that year. I'm a little surprised he never came back in 1970, as he had shown some real promise. Sadly, he lost his life at Ascot Park a couple of years after that.

 

I think that one of the problems with some of the first Americans of the modern era was that they seemed somewhat temperamental - not DeWayne though, by all accounts. Many made fleeting appearances, but appeared reluctant to stick it out for more than a few weeks. There were riders like Steve Bast, Sumner McKnight, Rick Woods (that was largely down to the refusal to be allowed to compete in the World Championship, though), and Mark Cherry, and none stayed for long. Even the perenially controversial Steve Gresham calmed down a lot after a stormy relationship with Hull.

 

Of all the Americans I met - and not that I had any problems with any of them - but Dennis Sigalos seemed the perfect gentleman. Ron Preston was also a really nice guy.

 

Steve

Edited October 20, 2008 by chunky

[SHALEWAY69]

Yep, I remember seeing him at Plough Lane that year. I'm a little surprised he never came back in 1970, as he had shown some real promise. Sadly, he lost his life at Ascot Park a couple of years after that.

 

I think that one of the problems with some of the first Americans of the modern era was that they seemed somewhat temperamental - not DeWayne though, by all accounts. Many made fleeting appearances, but appeared reluctant to stick it out for more than a few weeks. There were riders like Steve Bast, Sumner McKnight, Rick Woods (that was largely down to the refusal to be allowed to compete in the World Championship, though), and Mark Cherry, and none stayed for long. Even the perenially controversial Steve Gresham calmed down a lot after a stormy relationship with Hull.

 

Of all the Americans I met - and not that I had any problems with any of them - but Dennis Sigalos seemed the perfect gentleman. Ron Preston was also a really nice guy.

 

Steve

Steve," Nasty attitude" possibly was not the best title for this thread, just "Riders with attitude" would have been better.

The Penhall incident was a disgrace for the credIbilty of speedway as years earlier Olle Nygren had been fined for the same thing at Wimbledon in the Internationale, but the powers to be did not reprimand Penhall as it was an FIM event ,where different rules were said to apply.

 

I admit that the Americans , in the main were great for British speedway, however their good guy image was so high that when they did something out of character they are often remembered for that and not the good things

 

Steve Gresham, John Cook and Bobby Schwartz all had their less popular moments

 

[sandman]

God knows what the fans would do with a pistol like Don Hawley nowadays. Raced everything there was to race including Sprint Cars, a member of the Boozefighters outlaw motorcycle club and reputed to have never lost a fight. My hero, I knew him... and his grandson owns a barbershop in so. cal called Hawleywoods Barber shop. I dont think the americans had a particularily bad attitude, they just live life to the fullest, sometimes with bad outcomes. sure, there are some p+++++ for sure, but on the whole, its live and let live. BFD, please educate everybody on Don Hawley OK? One of the toughest men to walk the face of the planet but a superb man to the young fans.

[BigFatDave]

God knows what the fans would do with a pistol like Don Hawley nowadays. Raced everything there was to race including Sprint Cars, a member of the Boozefighters outlaw motorcycle club and reputed to have never lost a fight. My hero, I knew him... and his grandson owns a barbershop in so. cal called Hawleywoods Barber shop. I dont think the americans had a particularily bad attitude, they just live life to the fullest, sometimes with bad outcomes. sure, there are some p+++++ for sure, but on the whole, its live and let live. BFD, please educate everybody on Don Hawley OK? One of the toughest men to walk the face of the planet but a superb man to the young fans.

A Dead-set Legend and along with cronies like Dude Crisswell, Sammy Tanner and Eddie Mulder an inspiration to many US Champions like Mike Bast and his brother Steve back in the heyday of US Speedway. Don Hawley was definitely "Old School" and rode against the likes of Ivan Mauger, Bert Harkins and Jim Airey as well as piloting his Offenhauser Sprintcar. Gotta Dash, more later.

[sandman]

Thank You..

[chunky]

Steve," Nasty attitude" possibly was not the best title for this thread, just "Riders with attitude" would have been better.

 

I never really interpreted the thread as being "nasty attitudes", as I thought you were just being a little overdramatic...

 

The Penhall incident was a disgrace for the credIbilty of speedway as years earlier Olle Nygren had been fined for the same thing at Wimbledon in the Internationale, but the powers to be did not reprimand Penhall as it was an FIM event ,where different rules were said to apply.

 

The problem is that is things like this have always gone on in individual meetings, although as others have said on here, it shouldn't have been that blatant and tasteless. Taking it one step further, we know that these rules should apply to various riders who have not made a bona fide attempt to race, but then what about Ivan Mauger's last bend slowdown at White City, in order to obtain a different riding number?

 

I admit that the Americans , in the main were great for British speedway, however their good guy image was so high that when they did something out of character they are often remembered for that and not the good things

 

Steve Gresham, John Cook and Bobby Schwartz all had their less popular moments

 

So too did the Moran boys... As I said, I found most of them to be really nice guys, but for me, Siggy did stand out a little more. Then again, we've had no mention of Lance King, Rick Miller, Scott Autrey, Eddie Ingels, Brad Oxley, Mike Faria, Buddy Robinson, Rob Pfetzing, Bobby Ott, Gary Hicks, Mike Curoso, Larry Kosta, Randy Green... Anyone out there got any memories of them?

 

Steve

Edited October 21, 2008 by chunky

[BigFatDave]

we've had no mention of Lance King, Rick Miller, Scott Autrey, Eddie Ingels, Brad Oxley, Mike Faria, Buddy Robinson, Rob Pfetzing, Bobby Ott, Gary Hicks, Mike Curoso, Larry Kosta, Randy Green... Anyone out there got any memories of them?

 

Steve

 

There'd be a few of 'em, well at least one fer sure, hangin' out at sandman's Chowder Bar & Booze Emporium in All Points South, Steve!!

 

Mind you, if there's any Boozefighters in attendance I'd tread real careful if I was you. Thirty-odd years back when a well-known Aussie club became affiliated with an even more well-known US social group it was the custom to send over an "Exchange Student" for a few months to absorb the culture as it were. His turn duly arrived so Ocker the Shocker headed off to California where among others he met up with a few ol' die-hards from the Boozefighters including original member Snowman, who regaled him with tales of Hollister 1947. It was here that the Outlaw scene had its origins, and Club Founder Wino Willie became the inspiration for Chino, Lee Marvin's character in "The Wild One".

Alas none of the Seppo party boys could keep up with Ocker, (whose twin mottoes of "First to Arrive, Last to Leave" and "Leave no turn Unstoned" were a personal inspiration to ME!) and another member was duly disPATCHed to bring Ocker home. Ocker later honoured me by awarding me my own personal BFD badge for being first in last out at a HA's rock concert. BFD? - Big ******* Deal!!

 

Back to Don - any relation to Jimmy Hawley?

 

[Sotonian]

God knows what the fans would do with a pistol like Don Hawley nowadays. Raced everything there was to race including Sprint Cars, a member of the Boozefighters outlaw motorcycle club and reputed to have never lost a fight. My hero, I knew him... and his grandson owns a barbershop in so. cal called Hawleywoods Barber shop. I dont think the americans had a particularily bad attitude, they just live life to the fullest, sometimes with bad outcomes. sure, there are some p+++++ for sure, but on the whole, its live and let live. BFD, please educate everybody on Don Hawley OK? One of the toughest men to walk the face of the planet but a superb man to the young fans.

I've got a great photo of Don Hawley. The style of bike, not to mention his full-on leg trailing, suggest the late 40's or early 50's. Would that be right?

I would welcome more info about him and his career.