Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Ridiculous comment. Why is it? The Under 21 champion doesn't have the luxury of knowing consistent thirds and fourths in a season long series of meetings will get him the title. Among his peers, he has to beat the best and get thru' QRs, very tough semis and then a proper 20 heat Final. The trouble with those in favour of the GPs is you've blinded yourself to some basic facts. Okay, it may (arguably..) be a fair way to assess the world's best to have several rounds and the top aggregate points scorer claims the crown; but nothing can replace the sheer excitement of the one-off Final. To get through such a challenge is the mettle of a true champion.. It takes a lot to know that EVERY race matters totally in pursuit of that ultimate goal... Emil (no, I can't spell his surname... ) has proven twice he can win at that level and this is a huge achievement. It is demeaning then for people to suggest that somehow he's not "ready" for the GPs. To do that really does devalue the championship you obviously rate so highly. I also suspect, in part, it's because he is Russian..: can't believe anyone would be saying this of a Holder or a Tai if they'd won the World U21s two years running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 To be fair, Sajfutdinov had to negotiate a qualifier (which he won) against a field consisting mainly of Croats (not Pavlic), Hungarians and Slovakians. He then finished 4th in his Semi, where the non-qualifiers were Vaculik, Brzozowski, Kajoch, Baumann, Ksiezak, Klindt, Stichauer and Bogdanovs. With respect to them, that is hardly a "very tough" semi. As I posted earlier the vast majority of people expect and agree that Emil should be in the GP's for 2009. If anything the fact he is Russian makes him even more attractive to BSI/IMG as they will see that as a means of promoting the series in a new country. I hope if he gets a spot for 2009 he can be competitive at the top level - I will certainly be rooting for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Why is it? The Under 21 champion doesn't have the luxury of knowing consistent thirds and fourths in a season long series of meetings will get him the title. Among his peers, he has to beat the best and get thru' QRs, very tough semis and then a proper 20 heat Final. The trouble with those in favour of the GPs is you've blinded yourself to some basic facts. Okay, it may (arguably..) be a fair way to assess the world's best to have several rounds and the top aggregate points scorer claims the crown; but nothing can replace the sheer excitement of the one-off Final. To get through such a challenge is the mettle of a true champion.. It takes a lot to know that EVERY race matters totally in pursuit of that ultimate goal... Emil (no, I can't spell his surname... ) has proven twice he can win at that level and this is a huge achievement. It is demeaning then for people to suggest that somehow he's not "ready" for the GPs. To do that really does devalue the championship you obviously rate so highly. I also suspect, in part, it's because he is Russian..: can't believe anyone would be saying this of a Holder or a Tai if they'd won the World U21s two years running... I said that is was ridiculous to suggest it was a 'stroll' for Nikki to win back to back world titles via the GP system. At no point did I say Emil was not ready for next years GP's - in fact I very much hope he is in them. I liked the one off world finals, I like the GP system, for me they both have different qualities. I really couldnt say that winning a world title one way or the other produces a more 'definate' world champion. Again, I just think you suggesting the GP win was a stroll is rubbish thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 This says all one needs to know about the GP 'system'. A rider wins the World Under 21s TWICE in a row (an outstanding achievement - and harder won than Pedersen's stroll to the senior title, surely.. ) and it's said he should wait another THREE years before being 'allowed' in the GPs.. If I was said young man I'd say, you can stuff your world championship...: sounds like - and is - merely a old boys' club to me!!! Erm...if you were a young man, you'd say stuff your World Championship because of what one person on an internet forum says?! Perhaps it were somebody in authority who had the clout to make the big decisions, then maybe. But I think it's safe to assume the young riders concerned will not be adopting the same attitude you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Erm...if you were a young man, you'd say stuff your World Championship because of what one person on an internet forum says?! Perhaps it were somebody in authority who had the clout to make the big decisions, then maybe. But I think it's safe to assume the young riders concerned will not be adopting the same attitude you are. And with respect, do YOU know what actually young riders feel about a system which exludes them from competing in the GPs.. Eddie Kennett made his opinion pretty clear the other year when deciding against the long qualifying process, knowing that after all the effort, a paltry THREE places were up for grabs. Does anyone truly believe he'd have done that if, say, eight places in a penultimate round saw him through..: into either a WF or indeed a season's long competition. Becasuse when push comes to shove, we may well now be lumbered weith the latter but it DOESN'T have to be a such a closed-shop..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 And with respect, do YOU know what actually young riders feel about a system which exludes them from competing in the GPs.. No, I don't KNOW. As I said it my post I ASSUMED young riders would not be turning to IMG and BSI and telling them to shove it based on what someone on an internet forum says. I think that's a pretty fair assumption. Additionally, how are they excluded? There is a qualifying system and if young riders do perform to a good standard over a year, they will be given wild cards. NKI and Bomber spring to mind as a couple who have been given that opportunity in the recent past. ps. Don't worry about using "With respect" in future...give me a bit of honest disrespect anyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 No, I don't KNOW. As I said it my post I ASSUMED young riders would not be turning to IMG and BSI and telling them to shove it based on what someone on an internet forum says. I think that's a pretty fair assumption. Okay, the 'scenario' I recklessly painted was based on young Emil missing out on a place in reality (which hopefully won't be happening) rather than as you say, some random musings on the subject on the BMF..!! One would sincerely hope and fully expect NO young riders are bothered to read all the old clap-trap the lot of us muse over on this Forum!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 One would sincerely hope and fully expect NO young riders are bothered to read all the old clap-trap the lot of us muse over on this Forum!!! Amen to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adder Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Apologies if this has been covered elsewher in the thread but when do next year's wild cards get announced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanB Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Looking at who is in the GPs next season and as mentioned before you can safely say it wont be a Polish or Danish rider. Think it is also safe to say at least 1 British rider will be in the line up but as we are no longer the major force on the international scene that we use to be cant see us having two. My four picks would be Nicholls, Saifutinov, Holder and Lindgren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WimbledonDon Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 1st WC has to be without a doubt nicholls - i know this is an 'un-written rule' but pretty much every year i think its really the top 9 get auto qualifying to next year... 1) Nicki Pedersen 2) Jason Crump 3) Tomasz Gollob 4) Greg Hancock 5) Hans Andersen 6) Leigh Adams 7) Andreas Jonsson 8) Rune Holta 9) Scott Nicholls 10) Jarek Hampel 11) Kenneth Bjerre 12) Sebastian Ulamek 13) Gregorz Walasek 14) Emil Sajfutdinov 15) Chris Holder Harris defo no WC... dosen't deserve it one hit wonder... Lindgren dosen't deserve it... again one hit wonder... although nicholls hasn't done anything brilliant... he's been consistant 7 2 7 7 12 6 4 7 10 8 7 were as Lindgren was... 7 7 22 3 2 4 7 7 0 5 9 ... Hitting very low scores at some rounds ... Although Nicholls had 2 off rounds... Leszno (2) & Mallila (4) Lindgren had 5 Off rounds Parken (3) Cardiff (2) Prauge (4) Bydgocszcz (0!!!) & Lonigo (5)... Holder & Emil deserve it... we need new blood in the GP's and they show the best potential... Walasek - Ulamek will drag the GP's down a bit imo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Harris defo no WC... dosen't deserve it one hit wonder... Lindgren dosen't deserve it... again one hit wonder... although nicholls hasn't done anything brilliant... he's been consistant 7 2 7 7 12 6 4 7 10 8 7 were as Lindgren was... 7 7 22 3 2 4 7 7 0 5 9 ... Hitting very low scores at some rounds ... Although Nicholls had 2 off rounds... Leszno (2) & Mallila (4) Lindgren had 5 Off rounds Parken (3) Cardiff (2) Prauge (4) Bydgocszcz (0!!!) & Lonigo (5)... Holder & Emil deserve it... we need new blood in the GP's and they show the best potential... Walasek - Ulamek will drag the GP's down a bit imo! I agree and disagree. Yes, I would like to see both these two young riders in the GP as they are great talents and better than some of the other riders there... But...IMO and as CH has said, it is just a year or 2 too early for them to make the step up. Too much pressure and not many young riders who have entered the GP at an early age have actually progressed....with Hampel and Lindback to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik B1200 Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 "although nicholls hasn't done anything brilliant... he's been consistant 7 2 7 7 12 6 4 7 10 8 7". Yes very consistent, no hit wonder!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 1st WC has to be without a doubt nicholls - i know this is an 'un-written rule' but pretty much every year i think its really the top 9 get auto qualifying to next year... 1) Nicki Pedersen 2) Jason Crump 3) Tomasz Gollob 4) Greg Hancock 5) Hans Andersen 6) Leigh Adams 7) Andreas Jonsson 8) Rune Holta 9) Scott Nicholls 10) Jarek Hampel 11) Kenneth Bjerre 12) Sebastian Ulamek 13) Gregorz Walasek 14) Emil Sajfutdinov 15) Chris Holder Harris defo no WC... dosen't deserve it one hit wonder... Lindgren dosen't deserve it... again one hit wonder... although nicholls hasn't done anything brilliant... he's been consistant 7 2 7 7 12 6 4 7 10 8 7 were as Lindgren was... 7 7 22 3 2 4 7 7 0 5 9 ... Hitting very low scores at some rounds ... Although Nicholls had 2 off rounds... Leszno (2) & Mallila (4) Lindgren had 5 Off rounds Parken (3) Cardiff (2) Prauge (4) Bydgocszcz (0!!!) & Lonigo (5)... Holder & Emil deserve it... we need new blood in the GP's and they show the best potential... Walasek - Ulamek will drag the GP's down a bit imo! Lindgren just lacks consistency that will come with experience, put in a decent first GP year IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niclas Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Antonio Lindback is according to T.Rick. the greatest talent he has even seen on a track, but that wasnt good enough to be able to stay in the GP. The thing is that to ride in the GP is not only a question about talent, its a question about handle organisational and economical issues, handle pressure, be deal with misfortune and not be going down when you score one point for the third time in a row. That is one reason why Holder and Emil should wait another year before they enter the GP-series. But Emil doesnt seems to only be a great talent, he seems to be mentally strong and surrounded by good people like T.Rick. That might help him and make him able to get into the GP even if he is just 19. But to ride in the GP seems much tougher than we might think sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiles Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Scott Nicholls - Fredrik Lindgren - Emil Sajfutdinow - Matej Zagar - Chris Holder - Jarosław Hampel - SGP/IMŚ - Żużel Nicholls, Lindgren, Sajfutdinov i Zagar z dzikimi kartami? autor: Damian Gapiński, 2008-10-28, 08:35, źródło: inf. własna skomentuj • komentarze (52) • drukuj artykuł We wtorek ma zostać ogłoszona oficjalnie lista zawodników, którzy będą w sezonie 2009 startować z dzikimi kartami w cyklu Grand Prix. Jak udało nam się nieoficjalnie ustalić dostaną je Scott Nicholls, Fredrik Lindgren, Emil Sajfutdinov i Matej Zagar. Gdyby doszło do rezygnacji któregoś z zawodników, to w rezerwie pozostawałby Chris Holder. O rezygnacji ze startów głośno mówiło się między innymi w przypadku Rune Holty i Grega Hancocka. Jednym z kandydatów do dzikiej karty jest również Jarosław Hampel.skomentuj • Can anybody tramslate this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKZ Kitten Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Wild cards for Nicholls, Lindgren, Sajfutdinov & Zagar? The official list of riders that will be given wild cards in year 2009 will be announced on Tuesday. From unofficial source we know that nominations will go to Scott Nicholls, Fredrik Lindgren, Emil Sajfutdinov and Matej Zagar. In case any of the riders who have already qualified resigns (Holta or Hancock), Chris Holder will take one of the places. Jarosław Hampel is another reserve waiting for a wild card nomination. www.sportowefakty.pl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 Holder has turned it down so they have asked Zager ?. Hampel and Holder first reserves ?. I agree with Niclas the way the Grand Prix system is it will take a rider two season to really establish them selves in the GP and cope with the demands put on them , more so at a young age. They could do worse than set up a mini GP for qualification say 4 rounds in Poland, Sweden, Britain and Denmark With riders 9-15 from the GP the season before and then the highest place riders from the National Championship who aren't in the GP eg Kennet ( GB ) , Zorro ( Sweden ) , Sckornicki ( Poland, Holder ( Oz ) and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKZ Kitten Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Wild cards confirmed: Matej Zagar, Emil Saifutdinov, Fredrik Lindgren & Scott Nicholls 1. Nicki Pedersen 2. Jason Crump 3. Tomasz Gollob 4. Greg Hancock 5. Hans Andersen 6. Leigh Adams 7. Andreas Jonsson 8. Rune Holta 9. Kenneth Bjerre 10. Sebastian Ułamek 11. Grzegorz Walasek 12. Matej Zagar 13. Emil Saifutdinov 14. Fredrik Lindgren 15. Scott Nicholls Source: Sportowe Fakty Edited October 28, 2008 by ZKZ Kitten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 28, 2008 Report Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Really don't understand Zagar getting in The others i can understand,even if i think Emil is going in a year too early maybe.Unless they just went down the Grand Challenge list and said we can't give it to any of the danish,Australian or Polish riders,plus Pavlic doesn't want it.Who is next?Oh,let's give it to Zagar Edited October 28, 2008 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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