New Qualificationsystem In Speedway Grand Prix

[MattK]

So let me get this right...

 

If Nicki Pedersen phones me up and saying he's looking for a (32 year-old) protege, and he'll buy all my equipment for me and he'll teach me to ride and he can get me into the GP qualififers as he know the bloke that runs it and I ride in the GP qualifiers and I beat the likes of Adams, Crump and Gollob and the final is held on my home track that Nicki built in my back garden and I qualify into the GP.

 

Could that be a possibility?

 

Carlsberg don't make middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies, but if they did they'd be the best middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies in the World.

[SCB]

Er,is it the same people?"This forum" Do we all have the same opinion apart from you?We all speak as one?.

Isn't it what a forum is about?Some want one thing,some want something different.There are always some people who will moan about a change,but there are maybe 6 people so far out of uckknows.......5 or 6,000. You're getting as bad as Bryn, moaning about the moaners

Opps. Sorry. You're right.

 

 

So let me get this right.....

 

Say for instance that Nicki and Jason get second and third next year then they go into a seeded bit of a GP challenge and say if it's a wet one off night and Crump falls or Nicki gets excluded and someone like Simon Gustafsson sneaks into the challenge and finds the meeting on his home track and qualifies into the GP.

 

Could that be a possibility?

It comes down to what people want. 15 nominated rider so you can guarnetee getting 15 of the top 20 or so riders (there will always be some issue with some of the selected riders) or the possibility of a no hoper qualifying.

 

Personally, I think the current system works, give a few guys a chance without ruining the system and blocking out the guys who are obviously good enough.

[bruno]

So let me get this right...

 

If Nicki Pedersen phones me up and saying he's looking for a (32 year-old) protege, and he'll buy all my equipment for me and he'll teach me to ride and he can get me into the GP qualififers as he know the bloke that runs it and I ride in the GP qualifiers and I beat the likes of Adams, Crump and Gollob and the final is held on my home track that Nicki built in my back garden and I qualify into the GP.

 

Could that be a possibility?

 

Carlsberg don't make middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies, but if they did they'd be the best middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies in the World.

brilliant someone who takes the mick instead of moaning should keep me chuckling for days! yeah i know sad but at least i enjoy my speedway. wonder why some people on the forum follow it. or do they moan at life in general?

[HenryW]

This just seems a ploy to get the likes of Gollob, Adams and Hancock to say "sod this for a game of space invaders" and decide they don't want to bother any more. Once they've bowed out, the rules get changed back again, until the next time BSI and the FIM decide they need to get rid of some old stagers.

But the GP series will always encourage the creation of a cadre of riders ahead of everyone else. It's the nature of such competitions.

Adams and Hancock maybe....The last thing they want is Tomek waving goodbye just now. There just isn't a credible contender for the Polish crowd without him at the moment.

[schumi]

Adams and Hancock maybe....The last thing they want is Tomek waving goodbye just now. There just isn't a credible contender for the Polish crowd without him at the moment.

Of course there is - Balinski.

 

 

[From PC to KC.]

So let me get this right...

 

If Nicki Pedersen phones me up and saying he's looking for a (32 year-old) protege, and he'll buy all my equipment for me and he'll teach me to ride and he can get me into the GP qualififers as he know the bloke that runs it and I ride in the GP qualifiers and I beat the likes of Adams, Crump and Gollob and the final is held on my home track that Nicki built in my back garden and I qualify into the GP.

 

Could that be a possibility?

 

Carlsberg don't make middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies, but if they did they'd be the best middle-aged-man-becomes-superstar-speedway-rider-overnight-fantasies in the World.

Funniest post for ages, quality

[Subedei]

Adams and Hancock maybe....The last thing they want is Tomek waving goodbye just now. There just isn't a credible contender for the Polish crowd without him at the moment.

 

I'd have said Gollob would be the most likely to decide he's had enough if they introduce this. But, then again, they can always give him one of the "nominations" in a case of reverse begging. However, I can't see him being too thrilled about a trip to Australia for a Grand Prix in November.

 

[f-s-p]

How's about the 2010 SGP qualifiers happening prior the the first SGP in 2010. 2 semis at the start of April, SGP challenge 2 weeks later, the first SGP 2010 the last weekend in April ??

Thats putting 64 riders to compete for the biggest prize of the year while they are still out of their sorts after the winter. OR they all could spend the winter in OZ practising and spending 10k a month on living and bikes. Would bump up the cost of the sport a bit?

 

The basic fault I see with the current system is that it measures the riders capability to perform in the GP the year before. Then again I just wrote that it wouldn't be a good move to do it before the season either ?!

 

Also making the season even longer will keep the young and coming riders even further at the back and out of the series, since topflight speedway isn't really making the money for the riders it should when compared to the cost involved.

Edited September 26, 2008 by f-s-p

[Ghostwalker]

How's about the 2010 SGP qualifiers happening prior the the first SGP in 2010. 2 semis at the start of April, SGP challenge 2 weeks later, the first SGP 2010 the last weekend in April ??

 

Well i think the riders who qualifies would like more then a few weeks to find new sponsors sincr riding in the GP isn't especially cheap and to adjust their team for GP riding.

[Trees]

Perfect time to cut down the number of GPs then cos if it's qualifiers and then 11 or 12 GPs!! zzzzzzz

The qualifiers will be the best meetings anyways. Come on FIM cut em down to 8 or less!!

Well i think the riders who qualifies would like more then a few weeks to find new sponsors sincr riding in the GP isn't especially cheap and to adjust their team for GP riding.

What you mean like, no sponsors, make a loss? ha

Edited September 26, 2008 by Trees

[Humphrey Appleby]

Why not have an Australian GP in February?

 

The problem is that would be before the European season had started, and I can't see that riders would want to go straight into a GP race rusty.

 

And so what if 2nd doesn't qualify and 11th does, wasn't that how it worked pre-GP days?

 

Each World Championship was a standalone competition each season, so not really comparable. If the GP qualifier was at the start of season then fair enough, but imagine if the No.2 rider got injured in the last GP of the season and then couldn't ride in the GP Challenge?

 

Yes, I know it could be argued this was the case with 9th to 16th placed riders in old days of the GP Challenge (and indeed Andy Smith always requalified at the expense of someone better), but I think it's less of credibility problem for the lower order riders to miss out than the riders who stood on the GP rostrum only a week or two earlier.

 

Can you really see the World number 2 not getting a Wildcard though?

 

So why not just seed them and be done with it? Why go through the pretence of a competitive qualification process, if you're just going to hand them their place back anyway?

 

[dabbsjoe]

For me i think that if you win a GP then you should automatically qualify for next year so that they can defend that GP that they won, however the flaw with this is that is possible that with 11 GP's you can have 11 different GP winners and only have 5 spaces left well 3 after Nicholls and Harris get there spots in the GP as usual without needing to qualify.

 

Only other thing i think would be good would be to automatically put the winner of the National titles into the GP's this would put a greater emphasis on the National Title and hopefully generate more interest in them as well

[Jeff.]

How absurd would it be if a rider who's finished 2nd after 11 rounds, then goes out in a one-off meeting whilst the 11th placed rider re-qualifies? The need to ride in a couple of GP Challenge rounds would also severely complicate the holding of GPs in places like Australia, which realistically need to be staged towards the end of, or after the European season.

 

No more absurd than the systen where the World Champion cant defend his title thanks to bad luck in a "one off qualifier"

 

 

So let me get this right.....

 

Say for instance that Nicki and Jason get second and third next year then they go into a seeded bit of a GP challenge and say if it's a wet one off night and Crump falls or Nicki gets excluded and someone like Simon Gustafsson sneaks into the challenge and finds the meeting on his home track and qualifies into the GP.

 

Could that be a possibility?

 

Well we got a World Champion in 1983 under similar circumstances.

 

I really hope there is no return to anything approaching the old, extremely flawed, system of one off qualifiers for anything more than a handful of places. The current system is perfect if the sport wants any credibility.

 

Much easier than explaining that although Olsen and Michanek are among the best riders in the world they are not in the meeting as in 1976

 

Or that the world champion is little more than second division standard as in 1973

 

Or even that the world champion actually won the title on a mini longtrack but is actually not very good at the sport in which he won his title as in 1983.

 

Do you want more flaws, well how about the National Championship you all want to return to its former glory. Mike Lee was a deserved winner in 1977, must have rode well to defeat Collins ?, well no actually we decided to let Collins miss all the qualifiers up to the ICF.

 

[iris123]

Or even that the world champion actually won the title on a mini longtrack but is actually not very good at the sport in which he won his title as in 1983.

Mmmmm should we take the opinion of multi World Champions like Ivan Mauger and Barry Briggs or the opinion of Jeff Difficult one that,but i think Briggo and Ivan have a far better idea of how good or bad the 1983 champ is at speedway.

[spook]

I cant help feeling that they have the wrong end of the stick here..... they are looking either for luck to play the part in removing one or two old but 100% quality campaigners....... or they are looking to halt the Walasek qualifiers

 

I have no issue with the Hancock's Adam's and Gollob's hanging around until rhumatism forces them out........... I am personally interested in how long they will push it for considering the overall money in the GP's seems to improve year on year....will they do a TRick and retire at the first sign of a bad season or will they enjoy the money while they can?

 

The issue as far as I can see it is machinery.......... most of the guys in the GP's have learnt how to reduce the chances of injury over a season and this is no longer an issue for the vast majority... and of course suits the wiser heads.......................... talent isnt so much an issue for 75% of the field as they have reached as far as they are likely to go............... gating will always be the skill to have more than anything on Ole Olsen tracks .................... which just leaves the level of machinery

 

It seems to me that the top boys have the best tuners in their corner and the best spanner teams...................... this is a natural progression for someone with better money in the sport ............ but the gap is growing... of course the younger ones make more mistakes on track but I think the key thing here is the gap that has developed with the tuning and with the overall setup.......................... if anything needs to be looked at it is this............. not hoping that an oldie will have a bad night in qualification because the chances are they wont

 

so what can be done to help on the machinery side? I personally think a leaf can be taken from the F1 camp and to mix things up a bit with one or two components ...

 

 

all that said I like the idea that everyone has a chance to qualify but I think it should be extended to all riders that want a shot ....even if that means PL riders are doing it over the previous season

[Jeff.]

Mmmmm should we take the opinion of multi World Champions like Ivan Mauger and Barry Briggs or the opinion of Jeff Difficult one that,but i think Briggo and Ivan have a far better idea of how good or bad the 1983 champ is at speedway.

 

Or even simpler don't take anyones opinion, simply look at the statistics, look at his speedway record. That,s what I would do.

 

Maybe Ivan and Briggos opininion was more that if he had applied himself to speedway Egon certainly had the talent but he preferred long track racing to speedway and thats where his priorities lay

 

[ballinger]

Well i think the riders who qualifies would like more then a few weeks to find new sponsors sincr riding in the GP isn't especially cheap and to adjust their team for GP riding.

 

For what its worth I agree, I was just throwing it into the ring as a suggestion.

 

Ballinger's blueprint recommends Thursday qualifiers prior to each GP which is still the way to go in my opinion, top 8 from previous GP to start following GP, joined by 7 qualifiers, plus 1 wild card.

 

Qualifier to be contested by positions 9-15 from previous GP, 3 local wild cards or nominations, and 6 paid entries.

 

Any 7 able to qualify for GP, but the maximum 4 wildcards would not automatically enter following GP or GP qualifier.

 

Positions 8 & 9 from qualifier ride as track reserves in GP, with any points scored in GP counting in overall GP classification (ie. Top 8 in GP to semi finals from total of 18 riders, not just the starting 16)

 

Paid entries into qualifier would be accepted by FIM within 48 hours of previous GP, riders classified in top 8 from previous season to be provided with up to 4 free entries into qualifiers throughout the season should they be required. World U21 Champ and National Champions to be provided with 1 free entry per season into qualifiers.

Edited September 26, 2008 by ballinger

[iris123]

Or even simpler don't take anyones opinion, simply look at the statistics, look at his speedway record. That,s what I would do.

 

Maybe Ivan and Briggos opininion was more that if he had applied himself to speedway Egon certainly had the talent but he preferred long track racing to speedway and thats where his priorities lay

Ok then.How about 1977 when in Sweden he finished with the same amount of points as former World Champ and rider you mention as one too good to miss out on a World Final.Namely Anders Michanek,who was riding in his home country.

 

And like you yourself now say "he certainly had the talent" and like you also say if he had applied himself......Well i put it to you that from the start of 1983 Egon certainly did apply himself to one aim..........winning that World Championship.And his whole year was based on that one aim.He applied himself and he won.That is the sign not of a lucky rider but a Champ.But that is the thing with speedway.Some riders can ride certain tracks far better than others.Would Freddie Williams have been World Champ if the finals hadn't have been at Wembley?But do we all say he doesn't deserve it?How many World titles would Peter Craven or Peter Collins have won if the final was held every year at Hyde Road?Or if in Gollobs time the one-off final had have been at Bydgoszcz?

 

And anyway your judgment of the 1973 World Champ is also flawed.He might have been no more than a second division rider on British tracks.But then the World Final wasn't on a British track.Plus he was a World Champ in the pairs event even before that.And i have a preview of the 1973 season.Written before the season started where it makes a point of mentioning Jerzy as a dark horse.So someone in the know thought he was a bit better than a Div.2 rider

[superguest]

Personally think they should hold the GP challenge with 2 GP rounds left to go. Riders lying in postions 7th to 15th are automatically in the Grand Prix Challenge final. Thats 8 riders. The other 8 riders then qualify from the rounds as they do already... If you get a situation where by someone qualfies in both, it then goes to the next rider who competed in the GP's the year before.

 

You allow 2 Wildcards, who should be under 25 or missed the GPC through injury

 

So the top 6 from that field qualify. This will atleast garantuee a brilliant GPC but gives every rider a chance to enter the qualifcation rounds. This year's field waa awful because riders missed the rounds before due to injury or hetic schedules.

[spook]

I think you guys are forgetting that Egon had his success on the prototype of what was about to become the dominant engine of its era.... the GM SP .........

 

Tuner Otto Lantenhammer got his hands on an early GM and had found power that the Jawa, Weslake and Godden didnt have............. on top of Egon's success was the success of Gringo Brandt in grasstracking that year with the same engine............. Erik Gundersen won in 84 on the same engine and then everyone moved to GM's

 

Lets also not forget that Norden suited the longtracking Muller