MattK Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Really 'The Way Ahead' should be renamed Rose Tinted Glasses, or Cloud Cuckoo Land, so, on that theme, here's my plan for a World Team Cup format with seven man teams. I like the way the current WTC is structured over a week, so we'll keep that. 13 teams will be in the competition, 6 seeded so they don't meet in the first round, 6 unseeed. The host nation is seeded directly into the semi finals. Seeded Teams England Poland - Hosts Sweden Australia Denmark Russia Italy Non-Seeded Teams USA Hungary Solvenia Croatia Czech Rep Germany Monday A - England v USA @ Coventry B - Denmark v Solvenia @ Vojens C - Sweden v Hungary @ Eskiltuna Tuesday D - Australia v Croatia @ Swindon E - Russia v Czech Rep @ You get the picture F - Italy v Germany @ Lonigo Thursday QF1 - Winner of A v Winner of B @ Draw for "home" track QF2 - Winner of C v Winner of D @ Draw for "home" track QF3 - Winner of E v Winner of F @ Draw for "home" track Friday SEMI1 - Winner of QF1 v Winner of QF2 @ Draw for "home" track Saturday SEMI2 - Winner of QF3 v Hosts @ Leszno Sunday Winner of SEMI1 v Winner of SEMI2 @ Leszno IMG - I'll have my commission paid in non-sequential bank notes in a black briefcase left outside The New Inn tonight at 9pm please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 7 man teams and Italy are seeded!!!!!Have they got 7 riders? Crap idea.It will be Poland and Denmark every time at the moment with 7 riders.No-one else will even get close.No way Jose.Finland anyway are stronger than most of those teams.Croatia and the US will really be scraping the barrel to get 7 riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 It will be Poland and Denmark every time at the moment with 7 riders. There are only about six countries in the world that could track half-competitive seven-rider teams. Furthermore, speedway meetings without local interest are never well supported, which is why the SWC moved away from staging all the rounds in one country. Croatia and the US will really be scraping the barrel to get 7 riders I doubt there are even seven riders in Croatia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigbo Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Really 'The Way Ahead' should be renamed Rose Tinted Glasses, or Cloud Cuckoo Land, so, on that theme, here's my plan for a World Team Cup format with seven man teams. I like the way the current WTC is structured over a week, so we'll keep that. 13 teams will be in the competition, 6 seeded so they don't meet in the first round, 6 unseeed. The host nation is seeded directly into the semi finals. Seeded Teams England Poland - Hosts Sweden Australia Denmark Russia Italy Non-Seeded Teams USA Hungary Solvenia Croatia Czech Rep Germany Monday A - England v USA @ Coventry B - Denmark v Solvenia @ Vojens C - Sweden v Hungary @ Eskiltuna Tuesday D - Australia v Croatia @ Swindon E - Russia v Czech Rep @ You get the picture F - Italy v Germany @ Lonigo Thursday QF1 - Winner of A v Winner of B @ Draw for "home" track QF2 - Winner of C v Winner of D @ Draw for "home" track QF3 - Winner of E v Winner of F @ Draw for "home" track Friday SEMI1 - Winner of QF1 v Winner of QF2 @ Draw for "home" track Saturday SEMI2 - Winner of QF3 v Hosts @ Leszno Sunday Winner of SEMI1 v Winner of SEMI2 @ Leszno IMG - I'll have my commission paid in non-sequential bank notes in a black briefcase left outside The New Inn tonight at 9pm please. In an ideal world, Speedway would be able to hold a proper World Cup every 2 or 4 years, 10 man squads, staged in one country over 2-3 weeks. In reality, it's a complete non starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 (edited) There are only about six countries in the world that could track half-competitive seven-rider teams. Furthermore, speedway meetings without local interest are never well supported, which is why the SWC moved away from staging all the rounds in one country. I doubt there are even seven riders in Croatia. Well i did see the Croatian U19 side in Germany this year.But apart from Pavlic there wasn't much strength.Although one of their best riders apparently went home before the meeting in a strop and another good prospect is still too young to take part in international meetings.The same with France.I guess they could get 7 riders together,but after one or two Tresarrieu brothers there is no-one of any decent standard And as an example.Yesterdays meeting between Landshut & Lonigo AC Landshut: 56 1 Christian Hefenbrock (3,3,3,2,3) - 14 2 Sirg Schützbach (1,0,2,1) - 4 3 Richard Speiser (2,3,1,0,1) - 7 4 Manfred Betz (1,2,2,1) - 6 5 Herbert Rudolph (2,1,1,1) - 5 6 Hans Jörg Müller (2,2,3,3,2) 12 7 Frank Facher (1,1,3,1,2) - 8 8 Manfred Knappe MC Lonigo/ Italien 40 1 Alessandro Milanese (2,1,d,d) - 3 2 Andrea Baroni (0,0,1,2) - 3 3 Armando Castagna (3,3,d,3,3) - 12 4 Mattia Cavicchioli (0,0,2,2,0) - 4 5 Mattia Carpanese (3,2,3,3,1) - 12 6 Simone Tadiello (3,1,0,2,0) - 6 7 Alessandro Novello (0,0,0,0) - 0 8 Dennis Helfer Now obviously there might be a couple of Italians that could strengthen that side.But not to that great a level,because just look at the Landshut side.Hardly that strong with only Hefenbrock experienced at international level Edited September 21, 2008 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 And as an example.Yesterdays meeting between Landshut & Lonigo AC Landshut: 56 MC Lonigo/ Italien 40 Hmm, hardly ranks as a massacre though does it..!! Have you not seen some (indeed many) of the league results back 'home' in the UK..??!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Hmm, hardly ranks as a massacre though does it..!! Have you not seen some (indeed many) of the league results back 'home' in the UK..??!!! No,not a massacre.But if you look at the opposition and then if i am right one of the best riders(Castagna)has retired from international meetings then it wouldn't entice me to go further than my local track to see Italy against anyone.And i'd only go to my local track if the price was right.Not if they upped to entrance price because it was part of some World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted September 28, 2008 Report Share Posted September 28, 2008 i was thinking about changes to the world team cup the other day and thought more along the lines of leaving as it is with 5 man teams but instead of having 1 rider from each team in a race it should be 2 riders from 2 teams in a race this way it can involve a team riding aspect into the meeting as well after all it is the world team cup. only problem is for everyone to race against each other it would take about a day to complete a meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think the World Team Cup would be awesome with real matches and real team riding, though much like the Rugby World Cup, some early round matches would be walkovers. I would suggest 8 Teams in the tournmanet: Matches are 6 man teams over 12 heats, with 4 rides per rider and two matches per night. Here is a sample format; Day 1 - Round 1 matches 1. Sweden Vs Russia, 2. Poland Vs USa (Winners to Day 4, losers to Day 3) Day 2 - Round 1 matches 3. Britain Vs Australia, 4. Denmark Vs Czecho (Winners to Day 4, losers to Day 3) Day 3 - Last Chance Round - 5. Losers of 1 Vs 2, 6. Losers of Vs 4. Winning teams to day 5, losers eliminated day 4 - Round 2 - 7. Winners of 1 Vs 2, 8. Winners of 3 Vs 4 Winners to semis (day 6) loers to day 5 Day 5 - Last Chance Round - 9. Loser 7 Vs Winner 6. 10. Loser 8 Vs Winner 5. Day 6 - Semi's - Winners to Final Day 7 - Bronze Medal Match (Semi Losers) Final (Winners of Semi's) The shorter matches mean the walkovers are not so painful and the system means the good teams meet more often and the bad teams get a chance of a win on day 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Steve: I think that is an absolutely brilliant plan.. As you say, the RU World Cup contains many early matches which are massacres and that' just the way it is... The idea of combining those obviously less appealing to the paying public matches with the big 'uns is a great one. On that model, though, the tournament could be expanded to several other nations (who, less would be more genuine whipping-boys) so that for once the full breadth of the Speedway racing world could be shown. Would be a great way of raising the global profile of the sport and the fact that more than anything else, Speedway IS a team sport... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 The idea of combining those obviously less appealing to the paying public matches with the big 'uns is a great one. The suggested format has merit, but the fundamental problem is that meetings not featuring the home nation, are usually a financial disaster. I think the meetings would also need to staged at several different tracks as well, as seven meetings in row would be a bit of a logistical nightmare, not to mention stretching the coffers of the locals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 The suggested format has merit, but the fundamental problem is that meetings not featuring the home nation, are usually a financial disaster. I think the meetings would also need to staged at several different tracks as well, as seven meetings in row would be a bit of a logistical nightmare, not to mention stretching the coffers of the locals. The World Team Cups of 1976 and 1982 at White City are testament to that. The 1976 final when speedway, was at its most popular, was played out in a near deserted stadium because England failed to qualify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 The suggested format has merit, but the fundamental problem is that meetings not featuring the home nation, are usually a financial disaster. I think the meetings would also need to staged at several different tracks as well, as seven meetings in row would be a bit of a logistical nightmare, not to mention stretching the coffers of the locals. For the suggested format to work, it would probably have to be staged in several different countries. As there isn't the interest in any one single country to sustain a competition such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 For the suggested format to work, it would probably have to be staged in several different countries. As there isn't the interest in any one single country to sustain a competition such as this. I think we have to be more ambitious... A World Cup/Series HAS to be held in one country to be credible as an event. Sure it was a long time ago, but there's no model better to refer to than the 1973 International Tornament (the one sponsored by the Daily Mirror). Unless we can be ambitious enuff to attempt to duplicate thast event, there's no point in going down this road. Spreading over several countries takes away any integrity that such an event would have: it would be less a 'tournament' more a series of linked international matches. My understanding of '73 was that some of the most well-remembered and popular matches were those involving the Eastern Europeans taking on each other: eg Poland vs. USSR etc. Right now, personally, I think a match between those two countries (Substitute Russia for the Soviet Union, obviously..!) held on a GB track would be a fantastic spectacle..: I'd certainly go!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 The World Team Cups of 1976 and 1982 at White City are testament to that. The 1976 final when speedway, was at its most popular, was played out in a near deserted stadium because England failed to qualify Was the '76 Final that poorly attended..?? I was there but can't recall it being that bad..? This was the very hot summer wasn't it; I remember a stunt man who was going to high-dive into a tank on the centre-green had to be cancelled coz of the 'drought', meaning they weren't allowed to fill the tank.. No rain in a Speedway season..?? Sure WAS a long time ago..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Eastern Europeans taking on each other: eg Poland vs. USSR etc. Right now, personally, I think a match between those two countries (Substitute Russia for the Soviet Union, obviously..!) held on a GB track would be a fantastic spectacle..: I'd certainly go!!!! In 1973 those teams were fairly evenly matched.Fact is today even with 6 man teams Poland has far far more strength in depth.You might be getting carried away with the super talented Emil.Don't blame you.But who is there other than him?I saw Russia a few months back in Vojens and they are no match for Poland.Laguta is good and should progress.But other than seeing Sajfutdinov go up against the Polish top boys i can't see where the interest would be if that meeting was for instance held in Denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 A World Cup/Series HAS to be held in one country to be credible as an event. I'm not sure. Cricket has a test championship that is just bi-lateral series, and no-one would suggest that's not credible. Sure it was a long time ago, but there's no model better to refer to than the 1973 International Tornament (the one sponsored by the Daily Mirror). Sure, but that was long time ago, and it was a one-off. I think a World Cup needs to be fairly inclusive as well, and there are simply only about 5 or 6 countries that could track competitive test sides these days (and that was probably always the case). Okay, you could perhaps stretch that to maybe 8 countries if you included a couple of whipping boys, but that would still exclude more than half the countries where speedway is raced. Obviously there does need to be a trade-off between inclusiveness, competitiveness and having a credible team competition, but it also needs to be financially viable as well. Much as a single venue competition between full test sides is desirable, it just isn't going to work in this day-and-age. In any case, the WTC was historically always held as a series of linked international meetings - it was only the short-lived BSI experiment where the finals were held in one country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 How about a World Cup every four years. 1.) Adds Prestige to the event. 2.) Could be run in one nation over two weeks. Qualifiers take place in the three non World Cup years and are done 1 via location and 2 via seeding, very much like the football world cup. Format would take some adjusting but it could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Let's put the cat amongst the pigeons............... The EuroSport International Series................... I wonder who'd be interested in televising this? 8 7-man teams, 2 groups of 4 in a mini league, home and away. 2 semis over 2 legs each 1 final over 2 legs. That means the Winners would ride 5 'home' meetings.......... Poole, Coventry, Sheffield,........ anybody else fancy a round? Australia could ride their 'home' meetings wherever they like. Discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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