Italian Gp, Lonigo - 27 September 2008

[Mateusz]

removed

[Cornishfisherman]

Is it me or does anybody else feel that there's a fair number of people who have contributed to this thread that really ought to make appointments to see their local optician to get their eyes tested as soon as possible? Quite how anybody can argue against Nicky and Tomasz's exclusions is totally beyond me as they were quite simply the only logical decisions that could be made!

 

 

Probably the most sensible comment made on this particular subject so far! I have never been the greatest fan of Jason Crump but on this particular occasion Tomasz was definitely at fault, how contributors can argue with the Polish referee, the close up replays and the pundits ,who have considerably more experience in such matters as anyone on this forum, goodness only knows. Perhaps on this occasion Gollob misjudged his run into the corner, or was he trying to move Crump out to let his team mate through who was in desperate need of points? Had anyone thought of either of these two points.

[Subedei]

Probably the most sensible comment made on this particular subject so far! I have never been the greatest fan of Jason Crump but on this particular occasion Tomasz was definitely at fault, how contributors can argue with the Polish referee, the close up replays and the pundits ,who have considerably more experience in such matters as anyone on this forum, goodness only knows. Perhaps on this occasion Gollob misjudged his run into the corner, or was he trying to move Crump out to let his team mate through who was in desperate need of points? Had anyone thought of either of these two points.

 

Talking nonsense again, I see. That was a classic Gollob move. Hells bells he does it at Bydgoszcz all the time, or didn't you see the Polish Grand Prix? It was a glorious move from Gollob, who was in complete control and hadn't just clouted the safety fence.

Look at last year's final from Bydgoszcz:

 

 

Nicki P stayed on. I guess perhaps he just has more skill and ability than Crump.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Quite how anybody can argue against Nicky and Tomasz's exclusions is totally beyond me as they were quite simply the only logical decisions that could be made!

 

I thought Crump went down a bit easily to be honest, but Gollob did contact him, and I guess you couldn't really make any other decision. Pedersen's exclusion was fair enough, as even if he did get his shoe caught on Crump's bike, then it was only his own fault.

 

[speedy den boy]

Subs what would you do in the Gollob /Crump crash if you were the ref then.I hear what you are saying Gollob did make a very good move on crump,but he did make contact.Its a diff one but if you were the ref what would you do.?

[Pollyanna]

Off to bed now but just wanted to add....Was I the only one who was appauled to hear Tony Millard say it'd be good news for Scott Nicholls if Lindgren was hurt in that crash with Nicki? What sort of stupid comment is that to make? I know we're all supposed to grovel at the feet of the great and mighty Nicholls but FGS, 'hoping' another rider is injured becasue it might help Nicholls is beyond dreadful! Moron!

 

 

No, you are not the only one, lupus. I was disgusted too!

[Subedei]

Subs what would you do in the Gollob /Crump crash if you were the ref then.I hear what you are saying Gollob did make a very good move on crump,but he did make contact.Its a diff one but if you were the ref what would you do.?

 

I would have excluded Crump as being the primary cause of the stoppage.

 

[Guest Ashie Smashy]

I would have excluded Crump as being the primary cause of the stoppage.

 

Why? Gollob, although not intentional took Crump's leg, it is clear for all to see.

[Guest Ashie Smashy]

Nicholls had me scratching my head tonight. Heat 1 he let the pressure get to him again and he touched the tapes and was excluded, then he comes out and is hard done to by Dryml (who was rolling anyway so should have been restarted), he showed his pure class by not only staying on his bike when lesser riders would have lost it, he raced from 3rd to 1st despite twice being taken out and wide by Dryml, pure racing class. Then he acted like the petulant schoolboy that he is by his after race response.

 

Then he flops in his next ride and finally he makes a very hard challenge on another rider which one could argue was harder than what Dryml did to him, albeit not right up against the fence.

 

His second ride showed he can ride a bike, he as the skill but we have to question if he has the temperament to mix it with the big boys at the highest level and all the evidence suggests not. If I was him I would employ a top sports psychologist next season.

[Chris]

Of course Nicholls doesn't have the temperament to reach the top. Have you only just worked that out? Your not the sharpest tool in the box are you!

 

He has more than enough ability on the bike to compete with the best, but its upstairs that lets him down and has done all his career in the GP's. Look at someone like Rune Holta, who Nicholls has been competeing to get into the top 8 for the last two seasons. Holta has a horrible style on the bike and nowhere near the ability of Nicholls, but Scott can't handle pressure and makes poor decisions on track so has to fight just to reach the top 8.

 

Acted like a petulant schoolboy? Dear, dear. I felt he reacted quite well. I would have tried to rip Dribbles head off if he tried to put me in the fence twice.

 

Best stick to your obsession with Scoop eh?

[spook]

Probably the most sensible comment made on this particular subject so far! I have never been the greatest fan of Jason Crump but on this particular occasion Tomasz was definitely at fault, how contributors can argue with the Polish referee, the close up replays and the pundits ,who have considerably more experience in such matters as anyone on this forum, goodness only knows. Perhaps on this occasion Gollob misjudged his run into the corner, or was he trying to move Crump out to let his team mate through who was in desperate need of points? Had anyone thought of either of these two points.

 

completely 100% agree with you and Bryn and I can only put down certain posters as not seeing the wood for the trees or once again just trying to have a cyber spotlight put on them

 

Gollob is amazing to watch but he rolled back the years with that move....and for all the wrong reasons..... it was impetuous, naive and off the cuff.............. towards the end of his career the off the cuff moves are on the whole glorious moments of a man 'feeling' his races and not over thinking them or being too tense.........................with this move it was like the Gollob of old forcing a square block in a round hole and ultimately shooting himself in the foot

 

He caught Crumpy full stop........... and it cant even be argued that he didnt catch crumpy enough as he took his leg away.......... we are not talking about an incident similar to the Ronaldo dive of NickiP here

 

 

 

 

Gotta say i'm sick of that god awful Lonigo track..... year on year it produces a white line fest despite there been ample room on the bends if they just started banking them a bit................... the material on top was like sand ...and there was nothing but rubber underneath...................... this track has no place being in the calendar and the sooner someone is appointed with the talent to spot the correct tracks to use...the better......................especially as it encourages idiotic moves like those of Dryml and Holta

[Guest Ashie Smashy]

Acted like a petulant schoolboy? Dear, dear. I felt he reacted quite well. I would have tried to rip Dribbles head off if he tried to put me in the fence twice.

 

Best stick to your obsession with Scoop eh?

 

Then that shows more for your lack of self control then, I would bide my time and ensure I had kept my composure and used that aggression on the track in my next heat, it is all about channelling negative energy into positive energy, which is why I suggest he needs a sports psychologist, or a better one if he already is seeing one. I don't actually think Dryml meant to take Scott into the fence, I assume he just meant to block him. Heat of the moment stuff I am sure, but still not the first time Scott as gone OTT when feeling angry, I seem to recal he made himself look childish on Sky when arguing with a referee not so long back.

 

Scoop? you mean that over rated sports commentator Nigel Pearson who ruins the commentary on most speedway he presents? Hardly an obsession, more an observation my friend, although no idea why you felt the need to mention that on this thread? That is about the same as Pearon who comments on Woffinden on every meeting he presents evenwhen there is no Woffinden connection.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Ashie Smashy

[BigFatDave]

I would have excluded Crump as being the primary cause of the stoppage.

.......and that's why you'll never be a referee; you can't exclude your personal bias from your decisions. May be time to crawl back under your rock, me ol' Mongol M8!

[Star Lady]

Off to bed now but just wanted to add....Was I the only one who was appauled to hear Tony Millard say it'd be good news for Scott Nicholls if Lindgren was hurt in that crash with Nicki? What sort of stupid comment is that to make? I know we're all supposed to grovel at the feet of the great and mighty Nicholls but FGS, 'hoping' another rider is injured becasue it might help Nicholls is beyond dreadful! Moron!

 

I noticed too, what made it even worse was he would be watching the same pictures as we were and at that time all we knew were they were both on the track and possibly seriously injured. The moron is well overdue for pensioning off and maybe just maybe this might prove the catalyst.

 

As for the refereeing decisions. I thought the ref had them all spot on. For those that think Crump went down too easily, did you listen to the commentators? All night they were saying that the track was like marbles and there was no grip. So what exactly was there on that track to help Crump stay upright (I suppose at a push the same could be said for Nicki). There was contact from Gollob, so IMHO the ref had no option. The Nicki incident, I thought and still do after all the replays, that as Crump went past Nicki attempted to kick out at Crump, which is what caused Crump's ankle injury and Nicki to fall off. That's my unbiased opinion as I love watching all three of the riders involved.

 

 

 

[Old Saint]

..........

The Nicki incident, I thought and still do after all the replays, that as Crump went past Nicki attempted to kick out at Crump, which is what caused Crump's ankle injury and Nicki to fall off. That's my unbiased opinion as I love watching all three of the riders involved.

 

That was my impression as well and would explain how the steel shoe became entangled with Crump's footrest.

[Vince]

Talking nonsense again, I see. That was a classic Gollob move. Hells bells he does it at Bydgoszcz all the time, or didn't you see the Polish Grand Prix? It was a glorious move from Gollob, who was in complete control and hadn't just clouted the safety fence.

Look at last year's final from Bydgoszcz:

 

 

Nicki P stayed on. I guess perhaps he just has more skill and ability than Crump.

 

Talking of nonsense, don't know if you noticed but that wasn't Bydgoszcz last night. It was a track with long narrow straights and tight corners where the riders have to turn a lot harder. Therefore where a rider can take a knock at Bydgoszcz and stay on at Lonigo where there is no grip and he has to turn in harder he will go down. Certainly a classic Gollob move - works a treat on big open tracks ut you would have thought he had been excluded for it enough times now to know it's not the answer on every track!

There have been some terrible decisions by refs in the GP's this year but I thought he was spot on in both cases last night.

Despite my usually siding with the commentators as I think they have a very difficult job I must admit that Tony Millards comments about Lindgren were terrible.

[iris123]

 

Has Gollob some problems with this guy or with the FIM/BSI/Olsen?It sounds from this,that he feels politics lie behind some of the decisions. He does appear to be one of the few that will say what he feels and isn't scared to complain about track conditions.Has he been in the Polish press criticizing the way the GPs are run or the referees? And will he get fed up with it all soon?

[salty]

My thoughts on last night -

Ref got both the big decisions spot on, how anyone could argue different is beyond me. Silly move by Gollob in the semi, but he oh so nearly made a clean pass.

Dryml seems to be over-riding imo, just hope he gets through to the end of the German GP without injuring anybody else or himself.

 

The reaction of Millard to the Lindgren/Pedersen crash was appalling. To start banging on about how this could be a boost for Nicholls when he didn't know how serious the crash was (and at first sight it looked a bad one) - unforgiveable. Tatum should know better as well.

 

[Silver Bee]

Sub will probably disagree but I think the Gollob exclusion was right. At Bydgoszcz, he can get away with that move to an extent with riders not relying on their leg for entering the turns. Taking Crumps leg going into the turn at Lonigo completely unbalanced him. Wasn't even as if it was a small amount of contact as Gollob must have hit him at quite some speed. Whether the ref was right or wrong, there's no doubt in my mind that Crump DIDN'T put the bike down.

 

Pedersen said at Bydgoszcz in 07 that if it had been anywhere else other than Bydgoszcz he'd have put the bike down, then claims that Crump has put the bike down and condemns it??

 

It amazes me that Dryml continues to act in such a way after his own big crashes, and after Ales' huge one at Oxford. You would think he'd have a bit more respect for others riders on track in all honesty. An excellent ride from Nicholls to first avoid the fence after he was nearly dumped in it at the end of lap 3, then to pull a superb first and second bend out the back to repass KK before a top draw last bend to cut under Dryml when Dryml clearly aimed for him coming off the 4th turn. Definitely the right result in the end.

[pedropete]

My thoughts on last night -

Ref got both the big decisions spot on, how anyone could argue different is beyond me. Silly move by Gollob in the semi, but he oh so nearly made a clean pass.

Dryml seems to be over-riding imo, just hope he gets through to the end of the German GP without injuring anybody else or himself.

 

The reaction of Millard to the Lindgren/Pedersen crash was appalling. To start banging on about how this could be a boost for Nicholls when he didn't know how serious the crash was (and at first sight it looked a bad one) - unforgiveable. Tatum should know better as well.

 

With reference to the Dryml Nicholls incident, I think Dryml should have been excluded for unfair riding. It was dangerous, stupid and there is no place in speedway for such riding.