Subedei Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Rune Holta is the worst culprit of all - he actually hops around nationalities to get into the GP series. When there was a Norwegian GP, he was Norwegian. That dissapears and suddenly he's Polish, because they have two rounds and there's more chance of getting in that way. All the best Rob More nonsense. Holta became a Pole to improve his chances of racing in the Ekstraliga when it had restrictions on foreign riders. You know, the same thing that your favourite Andy Smith did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) Rune Holta is the worst culprit of all - he actually hops around nationalities to get into the GP series. When there was a Norwegian GP, he was Norwegian. That dissapears and suddenly he's Polish, because they have two rounds and there's more chance of getting in that way. All the best Rob I'm not going to bite. I'm not going to bite...... Edited to say but Sub did. Edited September 1, 2008 by salty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 More nonsense. Holta became a Pole to improve his chances of racing in the Ekstraliga when it had restrictions on foreign riders. Yeah, whatever. If he was British, you'd be saying how Holta shouldn't be given any more chances, etc,etc. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I would like to see top eight from this year's series, one Wild Card for each GP and the others to qualify on merit from the Qualifying rounds Best idea yet. Then everyone would have to earn the right to be in it the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) Trouble is you've still, at the end of the day, got 11 GP rounds with near enough the same riders for the season, of course it's repetative especially when the vastly experienced ones rise to the top each time ................ too much of a good thing! You'll never get a raw youngster becoming world champion again cos they'll never hold it together over all the rounds, the 30 somethings will always get the title. Edited September 2, 2008 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I'd also like to see top 8 from this year qualify for next & the old GP challenge with the bottom 8 plus 8 qualifiers trying to get into next year. Also I would like to see after round 2, the bottom 2 riders taken out of the GP and replaced with 2 form riders. Would get rid of watsers like Dryml making up the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 I'd also like to see top 8 from this year qualify for next & the old GP challenge with the bottom 8 plus 8 qualifiers trying to get into next year. Also I would like to see after round 2, the bottom 2 riders taken out of the GP and replaced with 2 form riders. Would get rid of watsers like Dryml making up the numbers. Tex, Lukas Dryml QUALIFIED for this year's GP (unlike the likes of Andreas Jonsson, a BSI charity case) and wasn't amongst the bottom two after 2 rounds. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 My apologies, I wasn't trying to rile anyone, I just mean Dryml has been a wee bit of a wasted place this year.. as has KK and many others in years gone by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Trouble is you've still, at the end of the day, got 11 GP rounds with near enough the same riders for the season, of course it's repetative especially when the vastly experienced ones rise to the top each time ................ too much of a good thing! You'll never get a raw youngster becoming world champion again cos they'll never hold it together over all the rounds, the 30 somethings will always get the title. I knew you would agree in the end. You are spot on the GP does indeed provide a more genuine champion, a rider who is consistently at the top over an entire season, exactly as a world champion should be. You are also right, the GP does away with the fluke winners. I knew you would endorse the GP eventually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) You are spot on the GP does indeed provide a more genuine champion, a rider who is consistently at the top over an entire season, exactly as a world champion should be. You are also right, the GP does away with the fluke winners. I knew you would endorse the GP eventually Not necessarily disagreeing with you but: A rider who holds his nerve (something that should not be underestimated) and scores the most points on the night is a deserved world champ. That's why I still prefer the one-off final concept. A GP series can be, and has been, won without winning any individual rounds that season (step forward Mr Loram). Consistent, yes, but not outstanding at any point. I wonder if it's possible to win a GP series without winning a race at all? For instance, finish 2nd in every heat, s/f and final, while the big wins are shared around? Edited September 2, 2008 by Sotonian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Not necessarily disagreeing with you but: A rider who holds his nerve (something that should not be underestimated) and scores the most points on the night is a deserved world champ. That's why I still prefer the one-off final concept. A GP series can be, and has been, won without winning any individual rounds that season (step forward Mr Loram). Consistent, yes, but not outstanding at any point. I wonder if it's possible to win a GP series without winning a race at all? For instance, finish 2nd in every heat, s/f and final, while the big wins are shared around? Quite true, in much the same way thet world finals have been won by riders winning only 2 of their 5 races, being beaten by riders lower in the finishing order. Was Szackiel a deserved winner or just lucky, was Muller a deserved winner or did he benefit from a speedway final being held on a mini longtrack in his own backyard, was Havelock the best rider in the world in 1992 or just the best on a rainy afternnon in Wroclaw. Whichever way you ;ook at it, and I was a big fan of the old world final the GP produces a guaranteed worthy winner. I just never expected Trees to be singing the praises of the GP system!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) I knew you would agree in the end. You are spot on the GP does indeed provide a more genuine champion, a rider who is consistently at the top over an entire season, exactly as a world champion should be. You are also right, the GP does away with the fluke winners. I knew you would endorse the GP eventually That was my thought when the GPs first started 100%, that over 6 or so GPs a true, consistant world champ would come out on top. BUT at the same time the GPs take away the chances of a young, talented rider to have a blast, leave the old boys in his wake and become world champion early in his career. Now with 11 of the bleeding rounds I can't EVER see speedway hailing a 20 year old world champion again like we did on that wonderful night in 1980 And nobody would deny that Michael Lee deserved the crown that night, what a rider he was! Of course the FIM felt this was the way for speedway to go after all those years, I thought they were right to start with, now I don't, the meetings are no longer special and that is sad! Then there is the issue of where the money made from the world championship goes but that's another story! Edited September 2, 2008 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 What the Grand Prix series was going to inevitably produce was a cadre of riders with the resources to become almost invulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 I wonder if it's possible to win a GP series without winning a race at all? For instance, finish 2nd in every heat, s/f and final, while the big wins are shared around? Technically it could happen. Realistically, no. I don't think it's possible that any rider could have been World Champion with the current format without wining a race (many races in fact). The eyar Makr Loram was World Champion being 2nd in every race would have made you World Champion as a 2nd got you to the next round and would have ultimately meant finishing 2nd in every round, as Mark didn't win a single round he'd have never have beat the guy who always finished 2nd. The GP's now as not like they were in 2000 so the Loram argument is not one against the current GP format. People used to moan when Andy Smith was in the GP's every year and claimed "there must be a better system" but he qualified by right every year, now people moan that rider don't have to qualify. Do people not realise that the 2003 World Champion did not qualify for the GP series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzybird Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 News of the World 6th September 2008 Chris Holder insists he is not ready for a permanent place in next year's Grand Prix series despite pleas from Poole. Aussie Holder still only 20, has been a sensation in his first full season in the Elite League. He said: "I'm flattered but I don't think I'll be ready until 2010 at the earliest. You need a lot more time and money to be competitive in GP." But Poole promoter Matt Ford insisted: "He'd be a huge asset for the series" So he might be Matt but he don't wanna go there just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Chris has made all the right moves to suit him and his career so far (and he'll ride for Lynn one day of course hehe) so if this is his decision regarding the GPs he's probably right again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I agree with Chris Holder and I don't think he is quite ready for another year or two and I think he knew it when he got knocked out the qualifying rounds for the GP series. He has plenty of time whereas riders like Lindback and Hampel have hit the GP's at a young age and actually gone backwards in there careers so I think Chris is wise to go for this when he is 22/23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUDGIE Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 News of the World 6th September 2008 Chris Holder insists he is not ready for a permanent place in next year's Grand Prix........ But Poole promoter Matt Ford insisted: "He'd be a huge asset for the series" I thought that the generally accepted position of UK promoters was that the GP is the cause of all of their problems and troubles? Is this not so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzybird Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Of course the FIM felt this was the way for speedway to go after all those years, I thought they were right to start with, now I don't, the meetings are no longer special and that is sad! Cardiff 30k+ fans attend as the meetings are no longer special Somehow I don't think they will change it for you Trees no matter how much you bleat about it not being what you want to see. I loved the one off final as well as the next one and was a humongous Michael Lee fan but would my other hero have ever become World Champion in a one off final ....... that we will never know now, one things for sure though the GP series made him World Champion for the Millennium and that I am well chuffed with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobalinks Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Holder on the other hand is a bit of a one off. He has adapted to the EL like a fish to water, is going around equalling track records and would be a serious threat in the GP series. Far too early for him to win it but he wouldn't be a straggler either. His current ability could even se him make some semis. Dave Watt ? Adam Shields ? Charlie Gjedde ? All the above have very similar averages to Holder. Whilst I agree that Chris has done exceptionally well in the EL, I think he, as would the three above, be well out of his depth in the GP's in a similar role as Kasprzak. Lets not forget that the EL is VERY watered down compared to other seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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