Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, gustix said: There is reference to the French-staged world championships in this article including the names of the champions: http://www.speedwayplus.com/france.shtml These are the 'world champions' for the events staged in France 1929-37: 1929 - 1.Charles Bellisent1930 - 1.Charles Bellisent1931 meeting 1 - 1.Billy Lamont1932 meeting 2 - 1.Vic Huxley1932 meeting 1 - 1.Jack Parker1932 meeting 2 - 1.Bluey Wilkinson, 2.Billy Lamont1933 - 1.Claude Rye, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 1 - 1.Fernand Meynier, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 2 - 1.Jean Landru1935 - 1.Billy Lamont, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1936 - 1.Pee Wee Cullum1937 - 1.Martin Schneeweiss Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, gustix said: These are the 'world champions' for the events staged in France 1929-37:1929 - 1.Charles Bellisent1930 - 1.Charles Bellisent1931 meeting 1 - 1.Billy Lamont1932 meeting 2 - 1.Vic Huxley1932 meeting 1 - 1.Jack Parker1932 meeting 2 - 1.Bluey Wilkinson, 2.Billy Lamont1933 - 1.Claude Rye, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 1 - 1.Fernand Meynier, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 2 - 1.Jean Landru1935 - 1.Billy Lamont, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1936 - 1.Pee Wee Cullum1937 - 1.Martin Schneeweiss Oh dear John, you do make a rod for your own back...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, gustix said: These are the 'world champions' for the events staged in France 1929-37: 1929 - 1.Charles Bellisent1930 - 1.Charles Bellisent1931 meeting 1 - 1.Billy Lamont1932 meeting 2 - 1.Vic Huxley1932 meeting 1 - 1.Jack Parker1932 meeting 2 - 1.Bluey Wilkinson, 2.Billy Lamont1933 - 1.Claude Rye, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 1 - 1.Fernand Meynier, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 2 - 1.Jean Landru1935 - 1.Billy Lamont, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1936 - 1.Pee Wee Cullum1937 - 1.Martin Schneeweiss FFS John, please stop this nonsense.....you know this is not true and has been proven so. Please stop the usual nonsense of trying to "Never let the facts get in the way of a story". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, steve roberts said: 1969 World Pairs Final which was initially a non FIM endorsed event, if I recall, but has long since been recognised as the first staging of the World Pairs competition. Not sure that is true.....would like to proven wrong though? There was talk once of doing this and also the 1968 Pairs in Kempten but I wasn't aware it had come to fruition. Edited January 9, 2020 by andout change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, gustix said: These are the 'world champions' for the events staged in France 1929-37: 1929 - 1.Charles Bellisent1930 - 1.Charles Bellisent1931 meeting 1 - 1.Billy Lamont1932 meeting 2 - 1.Vic Huxley1932 meeting 1 - 1.Jack Parker1932 meeting 2 - 1.Bluey Wilkinson, 2.Billy Lamont1933 - 1.Claude Rye, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 1 - 1.Fernand Meynier, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1934 meeting 2 - 1.Jean Landru1935 - 1.Billy Lamont, 2.Leopold Killmeyer1936 - 1.Pee Wee Cullum1937 - 1.Martin Schneeweiss certainly not !!! why do You repreat all this proven nonsense again and again? Tell me who was this Jean Landru ? Never came across this name when researching the Paris speedway meetings of the 1930s ! And You claim he was a world champion in 1934 ! There were no more than FIVE World Championship Finals in Paris ! Champions du Monde de Dirt-Track 1931 - 1935 1931 Billy Lamont 1932 Arthur 'Bluey' Wilkinson 1933 Fernand Meynier 1934 Claude Rye 1935 Claude Rye An interestig note about Charles 'Pee-Wee' Cullum winning it in 1936. He did win the Grand Prix of Paris in 1936, and the trophy on offer for the winner was indeed the one that had been used for all five World Championships from 1931 to 1935. The winners of the World Championships had not been allowed to keep the trophy, and had to give it back to the promoters. But in 1936 it had become obsolete as the FIM now ran the official World Championship, and there was no longer such an event in Paris. Instead of their world championship, the French promoters staged a one-off big international Meeting in July of 1936, the Dirt-Track Grand Prix of Paris, and offered the former world championship trophy to the winner for good. Cullum won it and took the trophy with him back to America, were not so long ago it has been auctioned along with other Cullum memorabilia. The top three of that 1936 Dirt-Track Grand Prix of Paris were: 1st Charles Cullum (America) 2nd Leon Boulard (France) 3rd Dicky Case (Australia) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, gustix said: ... 'world champions' for the events staged in France 1929-37:1934 meeting 2 - 1.Jean Landru 1 hour ago, Bavarian said: Tell me who was this Jean Landru ? Never came across this name when researching the Paris speedway meetings of the 1930s ! And You claim he was a world champion in 1934 ! My knowledge of Jean Landru is only based on information posted elsewhere. But some years ago in 'The voice' magazine in an article by English rider Pete Rogers he mentions Landru as competing in French meetings in the 1960s and 1970s. And the artscle also mentioned Landru was winner of a world championship staged in Paris in the 1930s. And Bavarian: I did not claim Landru was a world champion in the 1930s...I merely quoted a reference that details him as such. Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, andout said: Not sure that is true.....would like to proven wrong though? There was talk once of doing this and also the 1968 Pairs in Kempten but I wasn't aware it had come to fruition. Looking thru' my Peter Oakes Yearbook (1990) quoted is that "The 1969 World Pairs Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though official FIM medals were issued to the top three nations." Mystery to me! Edited January 9, 2020 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Looking thru' my Peter Oakes Yearbook (1990) quoted is that "The 1969 World Pairs Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though official FIM medals were issued to the top three nations." Mystery to me! You may be interested in this Wikipedia data on the World Pairs Championship: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedway_World_Pairs_Championship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Speedway_World_Pairs_Championship Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 49 minutes ago, gustix said: My knowledge of Jean Landru is only based on information posted elsewhere. But some years ago in 'The voice' magazine in an article by English rider Pete Rogers he mentions Landru as competing in French meetings in the 1960s and 1970s. And the artscle also mentioned Landru was winner of a world championship staged in Paris in the 1930s. And Bavarian: I did not claim Landru was a world champion in the 1930s...I merely quoted a reference that details him as such. O.k., Jean Landru was a French speedway rider in the 1950s, but he did not feature in the pre-war meetings at the Paris Buffalo Stadium. He certainly wasn't a world champion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bavarian said: O.k., Jean Landru was a French speedway rider in the 1950s, but he did not feature in the pre-war meetings at the Paris Buffalo Stadium. He certainly wasn't a world champion! And I repeat: I did not make the claim that Jean Landru was a world champion. I gathered the fact originally from the quoted SPEEDWAY PLUS article. Have you read the article? http://www.speedwayplus.com/france.shtml Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 56 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Looking thru' my Peter Oakes Yearbook (1990) quoted is that "The 1969 World Pairs Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though official FIM medals were issued to the top three nations." Mystery to me! Had a long discussion once with Ivan Mauger while I was driving him to Owego, NY (12 hour round trip). He said to me quite emphatically that it was a "World Final" because he got an FIM medal for it, even though it did not say "World Champion. He did concede however that he also got FIM medals from other events. We never actually agreed!! LOL I have been looking around and I cannot find anywhere that, at least 1969 is considered a World Final. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, steve roberts said: Looking thru' my Peter Oakes Yearbook (1990) quoted is that "The 1969 World Pairs Final is no longer recognised by the FIM even though official FIM medals were issued to the top three nations." Mystery to me! 24 minutes ago, andout said: Had a long discussion once with Ivan Mauger while I was driving him to Owego, NY (12 hour round trip). He said to me quite emphatically that it was a "World Final" because he got an FIM medal for it, even though it did not say "World Champion. He did concede however that he also got FIM medals from other events. We never actually agreed!! LOL I have been looking around and I cannot find anywhere that, at least 1969 is considered a World Final. Does this help? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Speedway_World_Pairs_Championship Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, gustix said: Does this h´lp? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1969_Speedway_World_Pairs_Championship Not really, since I do not accept Wikipedia as fact and nor should anyone even if it agrees with what you think. Nothing like doing your own research and getting the real facts! Someone can make 1968 and 69 Pairs Finals as World Finals in seconds........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, andout said: Not really, since I do not accept Wikipedia as fact and nor should anyone even if it agrees with what you think. Nothing like doing your own research and getting the real facts! Someone can make 1968 and 69 Pairs Finals as World Finals in seconds........ How do you know alternative sources are any more reliable than what is carried on Wikipedia? And on that theme, how did 'Speedway Star' recognise these pairs championships in 1968 and 1969? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 23 minutes ago, gustix said: And I repeat: I did not make the claim that Jean Landru was a world champion. I gathered the fact originally from the quoted SPEEDWAY PLUS article. Have you read the article? http://www.speedwayplus.com/france.shtml Yes I have read it, but unfortunately it contains a lot of nonsense . Even the photograph of the Buffalo Stadium is wrong. It pictures the "old" Velodrome Buffalo, at Neuilly-sur-Seine, which was used only for cycle races from its inauguration in 1893 until it ceased operations during the First World War. But the motorcycle dirt-track racing never took place there, it took place in the Stade-Velodrome Buffalo, at Montrouge, which was a big multi sports stadium in Paris, built in 1922, that also hosted football, and rugby, as well as cycle races on a steeply banked concrete cycle track around the outer perimeters of the cinders track, which surrounded the rugby football pitch. It could accommodate 20,000 spectators. After the war the stadium even hosted stock car races. The Stadium was demolished in 1957. To give You an indication of how the Buffalo Stadium ("Stade-Vélodrome Buffalo") looked like in the 1930s here is a picture taken during a football match there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, gustix said: How do you know alternative sources are any more reliable than what is carried on Wikipedia? And on that theme, how did 'Speedway Star' recognise these pairs championships in 1968 and 1969? Everything is more reliable than Wikipedia......Source for the recognition of 1968 and 1969......FIM!!!! What more do you want? how did 'Speedway Star' recognise these pairs championships? Because they wanted too!!!! Any way to get story whether true or not! Edited January 9, 2020 by andout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, andout said: Everything is more reliable than Wikipedia......Source for the recognition of 1968 and 1969......FIM!!!! What more do you want? how did 'Speedway Star' recognise these pairs championships? Because they wanted too!!!! Any way to get story whether true or not! From what I saw on Wikipedia their source was quoting the FIM!!! Re: "Speedway Star" and the events.When I said "...how did Speedway Star recognise them..." it was to query did they qualify the meetings - as official world championships or not? My comment was not to infer that they had given an undeserved recognition to the events just to suit journalistic needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andout Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 I give up!!!! You win John......Like talking to a brick wall.....if you could only read what I stated would help immensely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 hours ago, gustix said: And I repeat: I did not make the claim that Jean Landru was a world champion. I gathered the fact originally from the quoted SPEEDWAY PLUS article. Have you read the article? http://www.speedwayplus.com/france.shtml At least the guy puts a disclaimer f sorts at the bottom by stating he just saw the results somewhere but couldn't confirm anything. By just copying those results without the disclaimer or putting in an article that someone was the unofficial world champ in 1936 without yourself doing any research is pure rubbish as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 hours ago, gustix said: And I repeat: I did not make the claim that Jean Landru was a world champion. I gathered the fact originally from the quoted SPEEDWAY PLUS article. Have you read the article? http://www.speedwayplus.com/france.shtml 5 hours ago, iris123 said: At least the guy puts a disclaimer f sorts at the bottom by stating he just saw the results somewhere but couldn't confirm anything. By just copying those results without the disclaimer or putting in an article that someone was the unofficial world champ in 1936 without yourself doing any research is pure rubbish as usual I have far more important things to do than research Posts made by other members on here - and only tend to respond when something I can use/quote is readily to hand. This reflects IMO that basically "...it's only speedway..." not a matter of worldwide importance. It's nearly 15 years since I last attended a speedway meeting and have not suffered 'withdrawal symptoms' because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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