Grand Prix

[docmccoy]

Personally speaking I'd welcome a shake up of the qualifying system and a return to the old Grand Prix Challenge would be a good idea. I dont see any reason why, in the current situation, the bottom seven riders can't ride for their GP futures against the top nine from the qualifiers. However, the bottom line is, if they're not good enough, young or not, then they're not good enough.

 

Speedway's problem is that it's split between being an individual sport and a team sport. Therefore, whereas MotoGP, Formula One, World Superbikes etc, etc, do 'hand pick' their drivers/riders, there is an accepted route of progression if you're good enough. Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa both raced in the 250cc World Championships before riding in MotoGP, as did Toni Elias. The WSB series tends to pick their riders from their national championships, and Lewis Hamilton, although to a certain extent was nurtured by Ron Dennis, won the GP1 series before sitting in a McLaren. Also manufacturers, such as Honda keep tabs on their young riders/drivers in other formulae and nurture them to ride at the top level. This was the case with Kiyonari who won the British Superbike Championship on a factory-supported Honda and he is now racing at world level for the Ten Kate Honda team - that used to be James Toseland's team who is now riding in MotoGP for Yamaha.

 

In comparison, speedway doesn't have the same route of progression as other GP series' do, so we have the qualifying systems instead. Nothing wrong with that, but as the Grand Prix wants to be like other GPs, its lack of stability means that they can't market it along the same lines - not that they do much of that anyway. For example, Scott Nicholls cannot budget or get sponsors for next year on the basis of being in the Grand Prix because he doesn't know for sure if he will or not. The organisers need a certain number of Poles, Swedes, Danes, etc to help sell the TV rights. And with no 'teams' in the GP like there are in MotoGP or F1, there is no certainty for sponsors either.

 

Speedway's day-to-day existence is league racing and that's not likely to change for many years to come. And until the GPs can run on its own basis - which isn't going to be any time soon - this is always going to be a difficult situation for all concerned.

[T.N.T.]

The top 8 qualify direct.

 

I then think that the Qualifiers should find 8 riders to ride in the GP Challenge Final against the next 4 in the standings and 4 selected riders who may have missed out due to injury, riders in form and also the World U-21 Champion.

 

These 16 would then find the other 7 qualifiers for the next years series.

[12bore]

Personally speaking I'd welcome a shake up of the qualifying system and a return to the old Grand Prix Challenge would be a good idea. I dont see any reason why, in the current situation, the bottom seven riders can't ride for their GP futures against the top nine from the qualifiers. However, the bottom line is, if they're not good enough, young or not, then they're not good enough.

 

Speedway's problem is that it's split between being an individual sport and a team sport. Therefore, whereas MotoGP, Formula One, World Superbikes etc, etc, do 'hand pick' their drivers/riders, there is an accepted route of progression if you're good enough. Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa both raced in the 250cc World Championships before riding in MotoGP, as did Toni Elias. The WSB series tends to pick their riders from their national championships, and Lewis Hamilton, although to a certain extent was nurtured by Ron Dennis, won the GP1 series before sitting in a McLaren. Also manufacturers, such as Honda keep tabs on their young riders/drivers in other formulae and nurture them to ride at the top level. This was the case with Kiyonari who won the British Superbike Championship on a factory-supported Honda and he is now racing at world level for the Ten Kate Honda team - that used to be James Toseland's team who is now riding in MotoGP for Yamaha.

 

In comparison, speedway doesn't have the same route of progression as other GP series' do, so we have the qualifying systems instead. Nothing wrong with that, but as the Grand Prix wants to be like other GPs, its lack of stability means that they can't market it along the same lines - not that they do much of that anyway. For example, Scott Nicholls cannot budget or get sponsors for next year on the basis of being in the Grand Prix because he doesn't know for sure if he will or not. The organisers need a certain number of Poles, Swedes, Danes, etc to help sell the TV rights. And with no 'teams' in the GP like there are in MotoGP or F1, there is no certainty for sponsors either.

 

Speedway's day-to-day existence is league racing and that's not likely to change for many years to come. And until the GPs can run on its own basis - which isn't going to be any time soon - this is always going to be a difficult situation for all concerned.

 

Moto GP and superbikes are manufacturer controlled, riders are put into championships to stimulate markets to sell bikes hence the glut of spanish riders ... they are no better than anyone else there are just a hell of a lot more bikes sold in spain than anywhere else. Kiyonari was "seeded" into BSB by the factory in return for giving his team mate a factory bike the same way that the waste of space Watanabe (an alleged all japanese superbike champion) is waddling around with the privateers, the factory obviously got that one wrong! A GP without a british rider would be a disaster in terms of viewing figures as said above the same way as interest has fallen away from world superbikes this season without a recognised british rider, it appears drastic steps are being taken to get british riders into the series for next season.

 

[iris123]

It's not that Sajfutdinov or Holder are not good enough.It's just the way speedway works.In one meeting on one track they didn't get through.If the meeting had have been held at another track there would probably be a number of changes to who qualified.That is speedway.But the problem with any qualifying system is there will always be 1 or 2 unfancied riders who make it through.Lubos Tomicek almost made it last year.Andy Smith made it through a few times.It isn't so bad if an unfancied rider makes it through to a one-off World Final,but when 1 or 2 make it through to a GP series then it is bad news.Protasiewiscz is a good example

[Squire]

What are the implications if Scott or Chris do not qualify for next years GP's, and they are not invited as wild cards etc what effect will that have on the crowd turnout at Cardiff. Will it make a difference or if so will that not only affect IMG but the general atmosphere as an event in GB?

[spin king]

What are the implications if Scott or Chris do not qualify for next years GP's, and they are not invited as wild cards etc what effect will that have on the crowd turnout at Cardiff. Will it make a difference or if so will that not only affect IMG but the general atmosphere as an event in GB?

 

I think that you will find that they will go with at least one GB rider, because Cardiff is one of the main GP's, what I would like to see is a a Grand Prix A and a Grand Prix B, both Grand Prix to run on the same day at different venues, after each Grand Prix the bottom 4 from the Grand Prix A would be replaced by the top four from Grand Prix B.

Do away with the semi final's and the finals, and replace them with run off's between riders who have tied on points, the winner of the World title would be the rider who accumelates the most points in the A grand Prix.

[Squire]

I think that you will find that they will go with at least one GB rider, because Cardiff is one of the main GP's, what I would like to see is a a Grand Prix A and a Grand Prix B, both Grand Prix to run on the same day at different venues, after each Grand Prix the bottom 4 from the Grand Prix A would be replaced by the top four from Grand Prix B.

Do away with the semi final's and the finals, and replace them with run off's between riders who have tied on points, the winner of the World title would be the rider who accumelates the most points in the A grand Prix.

 

That will not auger well with several posters on this forum. (Well one in particular.. ) Also, with respect I feel that your solution to the problem that I outlined though is well thought out , is just not feasible or commercially viable.

[Subedei]

The call, so it seems, is for "new blood" to inject life into the Grands Prix circus.

In his blog on the Sky Sports website, Sky's top pundit and new official crash helmet carrier for the global superstar writes: "The pressure is certainly on both Nicholls and Chris Harris to try and force their way in [to the top eight], particularly as there is a lot of talk about the new teenage sensation Tai Woffinden...Without question the powers that be are beginning to take a lot of interest in him. I think they would like some fresh faces and I think some of the riders who have been kicking around who are not in the top eight will be in a vulnerable position. There are some youngsters who are making names for themselves like Tai Woffinden and the Australian rider Chris Holder who is getting a terrific reputation."

Well, lets have a look at the final standings in the Grands Prix this century (I have only produced the riders qualifying automatically for the next season's circus):

 

2007

 

1..N Pedersen

2..L Adams

3..J Crump

4..T Gollob

5..H Andersen

6..G Hancock

7..R Holta

8..S Nicholls

 

2006

 

1..J Crump

2..G Hancock

3..N Pedersen

4..A Jonsson

5..L Adams

6..H Andersen

7..M Zagar

8..T Gollob

 

2005

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..L Adams

4..N Pedersen

5..G Hancock

6..B Pedersen

7..T Gollob

8..A Jonsson

 

2004

 

1..J Crump

2..T Rickardsson

3..G Hancock

4..L Adams

5..N Pedersen

6..T Gollob

7..A Jonsson

8..J Hampel

 

2003

 

1..N Pedersen

2..J Crump

3..T Rickardsson

4..L Adams

5..G Hancock

6..T Gollob

7..S Nicholls

8..R Holta

9..R Sullivan

10..P Protasiewicz

 

2002

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..R Sullivan

4..L Adams

5..M Karlsson (now known as M Max)

6..G Hancock

7..T Gollob

8..M Loram

9..B Hamill

10..L Dryml

 

2001

 

1..T Rickardsson

2..J Crump

3..T Gollob

4..R Sullivan

5..L Adams

6..B Hamill

7..M Karlsson (now known as M Max)

8..T Wiltshire

9..M Loram

10..N Klingberg

 

2000

 

1..M Loram

2..B Hamill

3..T Rickardsson

4..J Crump

5..G Hancock

6..L Adams

7..T Gollob

8..T Wiltshire

9..R Sullivan

10..C Louis

 

As you will note, I've highlighted three riders in bold. Messrs Crump, Adams and Gollob have managed to qualify via their placing in the Grands Prix on each and every single occasion. Another rider, "The Grin", has just missed out on a single occasion, while two riders - Billy Hamill and Tony Rickardsson - bowed out of their own accord; Rickardsson as world champion mid-way through the 2006 season. And you have to think that Rickardsson, if he'd carried on, would still have been a force to this day and a sure-fire qualifier.

Old father time, one knock too many and satiated ambition did for Tony Rickardsson. He was knocking on in years, the on-track knocks were taking their toll and he had six world championships to his name. Enough was surely enough. And it looks like we're going to have to wait for Messrs Adams, Crump and Gollob (and, to be fair to him, Hancock) to finally decide that they also have had their fill.

Which is surely as it should be?

So, what chance does that give the likes of Tai Woffinden, Chris Holder, Jurica Pavlic and Emil Sajfutdinov, to name the outstanding prospects of speedway? Well, every chance, if they're prepared to do the hard work and have the skill, determination and balls, if you ask me.

But it seems to me that the creation of the Grands Prix circus has enabled a cabal of riders to form an elite corps whose talent and resources makes them virtually invulnerable. To be sure, it looks as if Hans Andersen is set to join that cabal, while world championship favourite Nicki Pedersen most certainly has, but even a rider as gifted and as well backed as Andreas Jonsson has so far been merely a "fringe player".

But isn't that how it should be? Only the best, the driven, the determined and the gifted should find themselves regularly at the top table, gorging themselves on the fruits of the Grands Prix circus.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Subedei

[BelteshazzarBee]

What would have happened a few years back if Tomas Suchanek had of won the toss?

 

Just because Sajfutdinov is good enough i'm not convinced all World U-21 Champions should be in.

 

I dont think we are talking every World u-21 champ just the 2008 one

 

I thought that the U21 champ qualified or has that stopped. I am sure Jason Crump, Lee Richardsson, Jarek Hampel and Krystof Kasprazak all got in origianally this way. Who was the las trider to get in this way?

 

This is how i think they should do it:

 

Top 8 from the previous year (how they do it anyway)

Instead of racing the qualifiers before the GPcampaign has finished run it afterwards so if riders such as Chris harris or Scott nicholls dont get in the top 8 they could qualify through to next year. Maybe have a series of 3 events (with eaqual fields) with the top two from each qualifying to next years GP campaign. Maybe thats too compicated but my idea of racing the qualifiers after the full campaign still stands as a genuinely sensible idea.

Then the World U-21 champ.

and if i am right that leaves the wild card for each round and hey presto.

[JSR]

I know its more costly for the riders but I would go back to the 24 rider format. In the current format several riders can have an off night and some heats are therefore far from competetive. The old format to a degree ensured that most of the best riders on the night go through and always ensured hard competetive racing in the knockout stage.

The current format is becoming a little predictable and can be boring at times,

[Daniel Smith]

This may be a little extreme but if I was running the GP series this is how I get the qualifiers, just bare with me here.

 

Now, we all know that the GP tracks are available for a Friday & Saturday.

 

At the moment there are 11 round,

 

Slovenia

Poland

Sweden

Denmark

Great Britain

Czech Republic

Sweden

Latvia

Poland

Italy

Germany

+

Australia (Hopefully in 2009)

 

Could it not be possible to stage a GP qualifier on the friday afternoon repair the track and then GP practice in the evening ready for Saturday.

 

So, the qualifiers for this would be each National Champion (or second, third or fourth place rider if the riders ahead have already qualified for the GP being in the top 13) and the World Under 21 Champion and the bottom 3 from the previous GP series. The top 3 from the GP Qualifiers would progress to the world stage.

 

It would go something like this

 

Friday

GP Qualifiers

16 riders

20 heats

Top 8 qualify for Saturday

GP Practice

 

Saturday

Pre meeting GP Qualifiers Semi Final's & Final

Then the usual GP series

Edited August 29, 2008 by screamer

[iris123]

Could it not be possible to stage a GP qualifier on the friday afternoon repair the track and then GP practice in the evening ready for Saturday.

 

Possible maybe.Not very likely though don't you think given the trouble with just a practice session over the past few years

[Subedei]

I know its more costly for the riders but I would go back to the 24 rider format.

 

I think more costly for the organisors is more to the point.

 

[suzuki star 882]

Why not have the world championship contested by each national champion, with maybe the world under 21 champion also included ? This way the best rider from each country, each year, gets the opportunity to be world champion. The only seeded rider if you want one would be the previous years world champion. I know people will say that the likes of the Finland or Italian champions would have no chance, but the only way these countries will progress is if they have something to aim for and the opportunity to ride at the highest level.

[iris123]

Why not have the world championship contested by each national champion, with maybe the world under 21 champion also included ? This way the best rider from each country, each year, gets the opportunity to be world champion. The only seeded rider if you want one would be the previous years world champion. I know people will say that the likes of the Finland or Italian champions would have no chance, but the only way these countries will progress is if they have something to aim for and the opportunity to ride at the highest level.

Adam Skornicki is the answer to that one

[frigbo]

Adam Skornicki is the answer to that one

 

Skornick, Zetterstrom and Matej Ferjan...mmmm nice!

[suzuki star 882]

Skornick, Zetterstrom and Matej Ferjan...mmmm nice!

 

 

But if they are good enough to win, or other riders blow it on the night, why should'nt they have a shot at the world title.

[srbramble]

Shouldn't be the top 8. Top 6 would be more appropriate. At the moment, we have Scott and Bomber, in 10th and 11th place. We are all still waiting for them to do something, and the series is nearly over! The amount of heats won between them, can be counted on one hand. Yet, they lie, only a few points or so, off the qualifying places. They have shown that, by being in it, they have diluted the quality of the competition, as well as the others below them in the current standings, I may add.

We could give the speedway countries seedings, like they do in football. Depending on the seeding of a particular country, that would determine how many riders they have in the qualifiers. For example, Poland = 10, Sweden = 8, GB = 8, Russia = 3, Denmark = 8, Hungary = 1, Czech Rep = 2, Australia = 4, etc( don't hold me to these figures, its only guesswork). The riders from each country could be selected from their averages in the league they compete in. If its more than one, then use the best one. It would show their consistancy to perform, not so ruthless as a one off meeting, where luck, or bad luck, can come into it(look what happened to Holder in the last qualifiers). You could still have the wild cards if necessary, and the 2 reserves could come from the unsuccessful riders from these qualifiers. Just a basic idea. I'm sure someone will shoot it down! All I ask is that you are constructive, and not abusive)

What do people think of an under 21 or 23 GP series? Less riders(maybe 12), to run over less meetings( 6 or 7), ridden on the permanent tracks only, GB, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, and 2 or 3 others. I appreciate the amount of meetings riders already have, but I believe, there is room for a competition such as this, if we rid our sport of these pointless local trophies and challenges. More competitive speedway is so much more appealing.