spook Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I will not buy into this argument that it the fault of British Speedway that there are not enough world class British riders coming through. Taken to it's logical conclusion, then the weakness of speedway in Australia, (eg last winter, neither Crump, Adams or Sullivan bothered to enter their national championship) should mean the Aussies are nowhere. Yet, they have the one set of riders who are the most likely to defeat the Danes. Where have these Aussies honed their skills, if not in the British Elite League? Where is the first port of call for any aspiring Australian speedway rider? No I'm afraid you are going to have to look elsewhere for the reasons. I dont get your point on the aussie national championship vintage? what has that got to do with the quality of aussies coming through? yes exactly Britain is their first port of call at a young age.... they have learned and honed their skills here ....... if they are doing that here then this has reduced the chances for our young guys.....no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy den boy Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 i JUST WISH CHRIS HARRIS WOULD RACE HIS BIKE RATHER THAN COMING ON THE TV EVERYTIME SAYING "def we will be alright,wll just put that race to bed and move on!!!"hOW MANY times is he going to say that or does he just want to get his monster drinks can on tv and dont worry about racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERACE Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) So many accusations, short term solutions and critical posts and yet the writing has been on the wall for so many years......... yes our guys underperformed and the bikes were pants but this issue was spotted seasons ago when we were Loramski-less ............ at that point we had an ex world champion still at the top of the game relatively.......... 2 guys still not at their peak who were with him in the gp's and Norris and Barker who could all still do a job........ the issue at that time was that Havvy and Screen were no more the force that they used to be and were no better than Norris and Barker............... and there was nothing under them who were looking potentially the real deal with the exception of Bomber, Stead, Neath and Howe So what has happened since? Howe has become a solid club rider who performs well at home.......... stead has become a steady club rider ........ Neath went for the security of the PL and has assumed that level ....... Bomber made it................. Norris had a one year resurgence but along with Barker has since retired.......... Screeny has regressed a little more ......... Havvy is in the PL slightly going backwards........ Loramski has been beset with injury ........... Louis has returned but once again has suffered with injury and can not be classed as anywhere higher than the bracket that Havvy and Screen were in...... and the same minimal amount of youngsters are starting to come through so on the basis of what happened with the last crop of youngsters it would be fair to say that a quarter of the ones that people tip for the top will actually be making it............ so out of Bridger, Kennett, Woffinden and King only 1 should be making it............. personally I think two from that group will be but that isnt the point............ the point is that while the rules and attitudes amongst the promoters remain the same and that the asset system is there to use and abuse we will consistently have only a handful of youngsters coming through of which only one from each crop will make it to world class level................ this means that consistently the GB team will have 3 at most guys who's skill level is good enough to be there Every thread that comes up that discusses our grass roots and the youngsters that are or arent coming through we always have those supporters who's attitude towards it is defensive and almost as if they are replying on behalf of their own club's policy......... and yet we have the same guys moaning here about the performance of the brits...... get used to it because until the promoters stop playing the asset game and investing in overseas youngsters rather than our own this will remain the same ........ The Conference League has been treated like an irritation - or something to exploit................ the PL has possibly the fewest amount of brits per team than there have ever been and looking down the averages there are only a few of them that could/should be stepping up................... the EL is obsessed with finding the next Sajfutdinov on a 5 because the rules permit it ... or the next Chris Holder to be farmed out to a PL club because the rules permit it..... rather than showing the same support and investment to our guys....... I'd also like to head off the 'If they are good enough they will make it' brigade because it is nonsense......... if they get the opportunities they have a chance of making it......... if the opportunities are thin then only a select few have a chance of making it...... and out of those few one or none will make it Ultimately the blame lies with the promoters and by extension the supporters.................. the promoters are only too happy to continue with this nonsense monopoly game of assets that they have created ..... and when a plan does manage to get through the conference that is to the benefit of the grass roots it is removed for no apparent reason after a year or two when results were starting to be seen....................... and the fans? .......... we currently have a thread in general with fans jokingly arguing about who has dibs on emil sajfutdinov on a 5 .... only behind the joking is a real urgency to win the race for him on such a false average and what would be a lucrative free asset if he was loaned out or sold later on................. the fans have lost the plot as much as the promoters by actually not only aknowledging the system but behaving as if it is completely normal What as bomber made because he hasnt made it as a world class rider yet. Edited July 15, 2008 by SUPERACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal royal Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 i JUST WISH CHRIS HARRIS WOULD RACE HIS BIKE RATHER THAN COMING ON THE TV EVERYTIME SAYING "def we will be alright,wll just put that race to bed and move on!!!"hOW MANY times is he going to say that or does he just want to get his monster drinks can on tv and dont worry about racing. " Last year............i had a dweam................on Monday night..............i had a wet one ! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedway_dan Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Unfortunately the problems called "Looking after you're own" something the Danes and Poles manage to do fantastically but we somehow struggle when it comes down to it. Time after time we have been presented opportunity's on our own tracks yet we cant prepare a race track when 9 times out of 10 we only produce racers who love a grippy track they can race on. How the on earth that manages to occur when we are the HOME team is beyond me....i don't quite think they had the same problem in Poland last year. Furthermore, the level of machinery simply isn't there compared to the likes of Crump, Andersson, Pedersen, Adams and Gollob for example. I can guarantee that all their earning go straight in their pockets and sponsors/partners provide the cost of being an international level performer. That level of sponsorship simply isn't their for the British lads at senior or junior level. Unfortunately I tend to agree that speedway in this country is in a bigger mess than some people seem to think and the BSPA itself do a great job of "Looking after their own" because to be honest they couldn't give a monkeys about Team GB or where are next world champion is going to come from as their club interests are paramount - which will be forever under the current structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Time after time we have been presented opportunity's on our own tracks yet we cant prepare a race track when 9 times out of 10 we only produce racers who love a grippy track they can race on. How the on earth that manages to occur when we are the HOME team is beyond me....i don't quite think they had the same problem in Poland last year. I remember the Poles complaining about the track for the final at Leszno last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeone Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Anyone who has a programme from last night should make a point of reading Kelvin Tatums article. He makes the point that the Danes have Gunderson training their kids and he says the training schemes in Poland are unbelievable. He also points out that speedway must be the only professional sport in Britain that has absolutely no full time coaches working within it whatsoever! He makes the point that as a former rider, he can see the faults and bad riding habits in certain riders, but that by the time these riders are in their twenties, it is almost impossible to sort these things out, as they need to be spotted and corrected while they are still kids learning the basics. Now I know Kelvin isn't everyones cup of tea, but his article made a lot of sense in my opinion. I know people will keep going on about the number of young Aussies that come over here, but if you look at their top guys, they didn't learn the basics over here, they had done that at home in Australia, as did young Tai, he didn't suddenly learn to ride when he got over here did he! I remember reading last winter about Leigh Adams holding some training sessions down under for young riders, when do any of our young guys get a chance like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beeone Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Here we go again, 'the track was too slick /grippy / wet / dry!!!', absolute rot, it was the same For everyone if the Danes and Swedes and Rymel could find a setup for it,then our guys should have been able to as well ! As for "our boys are racers". They would find the job easier if they learned to get out of the start once in a while. Mind you that doesn't help much if you are going so slowly that any quality rider can just pass you along the straight! Edited July 15, 2008 by Beeone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 How about the BSPA get their fingers out their arses and start doing something about British Speedway? Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingpin23699 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I must say that some track conditions suit some riders more than others. I've been Tenpin bowling for 40 years, and play at quite a high level and have seen the difference in players on different conditions. You can do whatever you like to lane conditions/track conditions or whatever and there'll always be someone who copes with them better than anyone else. Take Formula1.....and Michael Schumacher for instance...in the wet he was practically unbeatable...even last sundays race showed you the drivers who performed well in the prevailing conditions! Don't underestimate the importance of track conditions...they CAN and DO change results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 What as bomber made because he hasnt made it as a world class rider yet. So if a rider who has won a GP and been in the GP's for the last few seasons is not world class, wtf do you call world class.... I suppose he is shy of world class like a Johnno or a Howe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 He was good, last season. And this season, apparently without Brian Andersen's presence? Well, he doesn't seem to amount to much, does he? One heat win in the GPs so far this season. Not very good, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Unfortunately I tend to agree that speedway in this country is in a bigger mess than some people seem to think and the BSPA itself do a great job of "Looking after their own" because to be honest they couldn't give a monkeys about Team GB Well IMG are the promoters of the WTC competition, if they want TeamGB to perform well they will have to pay for tuning bikes etc etc won't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Even thing like the star don t help week after danish gp we have a picture of danish kids on small motocross bike yet after cardiff nothing yet we had 8 lads and three races go figure. I don't get the Star at the moment but you're right it's pretty poor by them to not carry pics of the boys at Cardiff ......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERACE Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 So if a rider who has won a GP and been in the GP's for the last few seasons is not world class, wtf do you call world class.... I suppose he is shy of world class like a Johnno or a Howe... A rider who is living off winning 1 GP. Winning 1 doesnt make you world class and lets remember he was only in the GP last year because of a wild card, Oh and lets not forget he is also only in this years gp because of a wild card and will almost certainly fail again to qualify by merit for next years event. Im not a bomber basher as I do like him and hopefully he will start to improve in the next couple of years but as yet he is nothing more than a good 8 point elite league rider and not even an out and out number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
771neil Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I would like to add that there is a crop of good kids (12 to 15 years old) riding at the moment most of them don t have there names on vans or web site and the ones with nice suits and covers have had them sponsored cause all there money goes on travel, bikes and training costs but if they don t get track time and advice then how many will make it. Some fans seem to think its easy but truth is you have a lot of travelling to do then theres the maintance of bikes plus dads need to work i know that i have spent at least ten thousand pounds this year on my lads racing and he one of the lucky ones that has 6 sponsors so i would hate to think how much the dads who can t find sponsors cope. Jim Lynch says its not all doom and gloom and he many be right but if somethin s not done soon they it will be and we might even struggle to make the wtc all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) He hasn't had the best year he hasn't had the worst year either, it isn't the most surprising thing to see a rider have a consolidating year after hitting the level Chris did last year, He is still at the very early stages of his GP & SWC career, he has plenty of time to reach " world class " status , whether he ever will or not is open for debate, but I don't think he should be written of just yet. This was in reply to Subs Harris post. Edited July 16, 2008 by wjm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I think one of the biggest ironies with this situation is that we can almost guarantee that once something happens like we finish last in a race off or dont even make the race off...... then all of a sudden the promoters will jump into action.............. I think that they do care but generally as speedway promoters they only care about whats right in front of their noses or what affects them over the season ahead As with everything in our fine sport in this country unless people start looking ahead further than tomorrow then it is going to be that much harder to do anything about. p.s. there is absolutely no issue with chris harris ...he has won a gp... missed out on automatic qualification by 1 point .... is above NKI and Lindgren in the BL averages .... and like those two is still improving and safely be described as world class......... just like Scott Nicholls he is at the top of the game.... how they perform at that level is a different matter.................... what we are talking about here are the amount of guys allowed to come through who have a genuine chance of joining them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 In Scott Nichols and Chris Harris Britain have 2 riders that are at GP level . IMO we have nobody else even close at this moment.Apart from Tai Woffinden i personaly cannot see where the next GP rider is coming from. If we believe the hype Britain have the riders but cant set up their bikes to suit the track conditions WHAT A LOAD OF SH*T. Dont know the answer either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 In Scott Nichols and Chris Harris Britain have 2 riders that are at GP level . IMO we have nobody else even close at this moment. And between them they've managed two race wins in the GPs this season. I'd question whether either of them is "GP level" - Harris' win last year looks more and more like dumb luck, while the global superstar hasn't won a GP in over sixty attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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