Lynch? Tuners? Bottle?

[spook]

So many accusations, short term solutions and critical posts and yet the writing has been on the wall for so many years......... yes our guys underperformed and the bikes were pants but this issue was spotted seasons ago when we were Loramski-less ............ at that point we had an ex world champion still at the top of the game relatively.......... 2 guys still not at their peak who were with him in the gp's and Norris and Barker who could all still do a job........ the issue at that time was that Havvy and Screen were no more the force that they used to be and were no better than Norris and Barker............... and there was nothing under them who were looking potentially the real deal with the exception of Bomber, Stead, Neath and Howe

 

So what has happened since?

 

Howe has become a solid club rider who performs well at home.......... stead has become a steady club rider ........ Neath went for the security of the PL and has assumed that level ....... Bomber made it................. Norris had a one year resurgence but along with Barker has since retired.......... Screeny has regressed a little more ......... Havvy is in the PL slightly going backwards........ Loramski has been beset with injury ........... Louis has returned but once again has suffered with injury and can not be classed as anywhere higher than the bracket that Havvy and Screen were in...... and the same minimal amount of youngsters are starting to come through

 

so on the basis of what happened with the last crop of youngsters it would be fair to say that a quarter of the ones that people tip for the top will actually be making it............ so out of Bridger, Kennett, Woffinden and King only 1 should be making it............. personally I think two from that group will be but that isnt the point............ the point is that while the rules and attitudes amongst the promoters remain the same and that the asset system is there to use and abuse we will consistently have only a handful of youngsters coming through of which only one from each crop will make it to world class level................ this means that consistently the GB team will have 3 at most guys who's skill level is good enough to be there

 

Every thread that comes up that discusses our grass roots and the youngsters that are or arent coming through we always have those supporters who's attitude towards it is defensive and almost as if they are replying on behalf of their own club's policy......... and yet we have the same guys moaning here about the performance of the brits...... get used to it because until the promoters stop playing the asset game and investing in overseas youngsters rather than our own this will remain the same ........

 

The Conference League has been treated like an irritation - or something to exploit................ the PL has possibly the fewest amount of brits per team than there have ever been and looking down the averages there are only a few of them that could/should be stepping up................... the EL is obsessed with finding the next Sajfutdinov on a 5 because the rules permit it ... or the next Chris Holder to be farmed out to a PL club because the rules permit it..... rather than showing the same support and investment to our guys.......

 

I'd also like to head off the 'If they are good enough they will make it' brigade because it is nonsense......... if they get the opportunities they have a chance of making it......... if the opportunities are thin then only a select few have a chance of making it...... and out of those few one or none will make it

 

Ultimately the blame lies with the promoters and by extension the supporters.................. the promoters are only too happy to continue with this nonsense monopoly game of assets that they have created ..... and when a plan does manage to get through the conference that is to the benefit of the grass roots it is removed for no apparent reason after a year or two when results were starting to be seen....................... and the fans? .......... we currently have a thread in general with fans jokingly arguing about who has dibs on emil sajfutdinov on a 5 .... only behind the joking is a real urgency to win the race for him on such a false average and what would be a lucrative free asset if he was loaned out or sold later on................. the fans have lost the plot as much as the promoters by actually not only aknowledging the system but behaving as if it is completely normal

Edited July 15, 2008 by spook

[shazzybird]

Not sure about anyone else but when the longest post ever has been posted going over the same thing that is being discussed in numerous other threads, I really can't be arsed to read it. Spook do me a favour and sumarise what you have said for me please

[Silver Bee]

It's worth a read Shazzy, even if you don't agree.

 

Personally, I think Spook is very almost Spot On.

[stevehone]

Not sure about anyone else but when the longest post ever has been posted going over the same thing that is being discussed in numerous other threads, I really can't be arsed to read it. Spook do me a favour and sumarise what you have said for me please

 

yet you take the time to reply

[Trees]

Interesting post Spook, sounds about right to me. The british boys need to be given much more guidance and support for sure, why don't the likes of Mark Loram and David Norris go round each track and watch the boys race, give them tips, encouragement etc etc

[spook]

Not sure about anyone else but when the longest post ever has been posted going over the same thing that is being discussed in numerous other threads, I really can't be arsed to read it. Spook do me a favour and sumarise what you have said for me please

 

lol or maybe you should take the time to read it and not assume that it is going on about the same things

 

if it helps you to overcome the difficult hurdle of reading it shazzy then i'm sure your mate Neil might agree with at least half of it

Edited July 15, 2008 by spook

[marron]

How about the BSPA get their fingers out their arses and start doing something about British Speedway?

 

[shazzybird]

It's worth a read Shazzy, even if you don't agree.

 

Personally, I think Spook is very almost Spot On.

 

Ok I read it and agree with you his analogy aint far wrong reaslly is it Sad Really.

 

Trees .... without wanting to start an argument here, I would of thought Mark Loram is probably concentrating more on getting back to full strength and Floppy well you're guess is as good as anyones .... has anyone seen him apart from at Eastbourne?

[Silver Bee]

How about the BSPA get their fingers out their arses and start doing something about British Speedway?

 

Blah Blah Blah.

 

What do you propose the BSPA do?

 

The BSPA is a body made up from the promoters of EVERY club, yet every clubs fans moan about them

 

Usual response looking for a scapegoat without any reasoning behind what they can do.

[shazzybird]

lol or maybe you should take the time to read it and not assume that it is going on about the same things

 

if it helps you to overcome the difficult hurdle of reading it shazzy then i'm sure your mate Neil might be agree with at least half of it

 

and too think I was quite nice about you and your posting there!

[Trees]

I would of thought Mark Loram is probably concentrating more on getting back to full strength

Mark is involved with the Under 21's whilst recouperating isn't he, perhaps getting around to see the boys race if he's ok to do so is part of his remit, who knows?

[stevehone]

was it also mentioned last night that Graham Jones was helping Lindgren in the pits?

i thought he was part of the GB U21 setup too?

[CheetahJake]

So many accusations, short term solutions and critical posts and yet the writing has been on the wall for so many years.....etc etc

 

With you Spook, all the way.

I was not only saddened last night, but I was also very angry.

I have been saying much the same as you for quite a few years now. Unless the powers that be actually wake up and become aware of what has been happening for so many years now, the sport will die in the UK. As it is, it is now like a walking skeleton from whichever way you look at it. It needs feeding and nurturing from the grass roots up, even if it means going 5 years without any overpaid and highly skilled and motivated foreign riders within each of our leagues. Spend the money saved in air fares and develop a BRITISH PRODUCT. Remember Middlo going on about the shortage of British talent for the National Team, and then with the promoters (ahem!!) at his club, splashing out on Poles with low averages to then bring them on and develop them, whilst our youngsters didn't know if they were on foot or horseback. And yes, fans are equally to blame for not demanding to see more home produced talent. And when we do get someone like TW, so many pick holes in whether he considers himself to be an Aussie or a Brit instead of accepting the fact that he rides as a Brit and is packed-full of talent. Remember the days when Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger rode as Brits, even though they were all New Zealanders? No-one quibbled then. I am not suggesting that today's batch of antipodeans should ride under the Union Jack, but what I am saying is don't take your eye off the ball and accept and encourage the likes of TW and EK etc, 'cos we need 'em and more besides if we are to move forward.

[771neil]

Well Spook your spot on with your posting, i would like to say that the main reason lads stay in premier league isn t due to easy life more to do with earning a living because some don t get offered meeting abroad and only have britan for income so maybe one meeting a week in el or 2 if not 3 a week in pl what would you chose thats my first point, lack of training is a big part of the problem i know as i m currently taking my 14 tear old all over for 2 or 3 minutes on his bike yet when i asked jan staechmann about training in denmark he said you can practise from 8 til 4 4 days a week for £10 a day so in one week they do more than we can in a season, Third thing is the fans which they are entitled to do what they want but unless they back the lads then last night will become the norm, for example we have some overseas riders in cl now who i have nothing against personally but again were training them and from what i ve seen they aren t bringing anything to cl, but if one blows an engine how does he repair it easy put a bit in star and suddenly its repaired by fans, sponsors,club owners but if one of our lads has problem he s released until he s fixed. Even thing like the star don t help week after danish gp we have a picture of danish kids on small motocross bike yet after cardiff nothing yet we had 8 lads and three races go figure.

[shazzybird]

lol or maybe you should take the time to read it and not assume that it is going on about the same things

 

if it helps you to overcome the difficult hurdle of reading it shazzy then i'm sure your mate Neil might agree with at least half of it

 

 

Ok I read it and agree with you his analogy aint far wrong really is it Sad Really. (even took out the extra letter there too)

 

 

and too think I was quite nice about you and your posting there!

 

 

that was being nice?

 

 

Did you not think so then wow you should read a nasty one!!!

[Peter]

The World Youth Cup has just taken place, a few meetings where youngsters take part in races on 80cc speedway bikes. Out of 58 entrants, there were no British riders. Whose fault is this? The BSPA's? The riders? There was a lad in it from Australia who travelled half way around the world to compete in it, yet he hadn't been on an 80cc bike before so the argument that we don't have 80cc speedway in Britain doesn't wash. Are British riders out there willing to travel the relatively short distance in comparision to Australia? I get the impression that a lot young British riders just want to go as fast as they can, so they get two or three 500cc bikes and travel in a van with the words "International Speedway Rider" plastered all over it. Young British riders should progress though the engine sizes 80, 125, 250 rather than jump straight on a 500. In under 15 meetings, you only have to look at the number of fallers there are. It's like they are being fast-tracked.

 

What bugs me is that people say "there's nowhere for kids to practice" when there are tracks like Buxton that can be used almost every day of the year. What's going on at these tracks when they don't have a meeting? It should be used whenever the kids aren't in school. What good is it when you've got guys like Graham Jones and Louis Carr or whoever when you've not got the bikes? (not criticising those two by the way) Do Denmark employ Erik Gundersen and give him no bikes?

 

Finally, we need to stop allowing foreigners to race in Britain below PL level. If they have British parentage then that's all right. They should have to reach a certain level before they can be signed by a club. Using a foreigner in the CL or Academy League is taking up a place that should be for British riders. Get rid of the stupid Rider Replacement rule in the CL. It goes completely against what the league was set up to do.

[Vintage '69]

I will not buy into this argument that it the fault of British Speedway that there are not enough world class British riders coming through.

 

Taken to it's logical conclusion, then the weakness of speedway in Australia, (eg last winter, neither Crump, Adams or Sullivan bothered to enter their national championship) should mean the Aussies are nowhere. Yet, they have the one set of riders who are the most likely to defeat the Danes. Where have these Aussies honed their skills, if not in the British Elite League? Where is the first port of call for any aspiring Australian speedway rider?

 

No I'm afraid you are going to have to look elsewhere for the reasons.

 

 

[Pollyanna]

Ok I read it and agree with you his analogy aint far wrong reaslly is it Sad Really.

 

Trees .... without wanting to start an argument here, I would of thought Mark Loram is probably concentrating more on getting back to full strength and Floppy well you're guess is as good as anyones .... has anyone seen him apart from at Eastbourne?

 

 

I thought Mark LOram is one of those involved in the group to work with GB juniors this year?

He obviously can't do too much at present, but in the SS he stated that he is looking forward to working with the youngsters as soon as possible.

[spook]

Did you not think so then wow you should read a nasty one!!!

 

well to be fair I did post that before you were 'nice' ......... and ive read some of your nasty ones which is why I completely keep on your good side

 

Finally, we need to stop allowing foreigners to race in Britain below PL level. If they have British parentage then that's all right. They should have to reach a certain level before they can be signed by a club. Using a foreigner in the CL or Academy League is taking up a place that should be for British riders. Get rid of the stupid Rider Replacement rule in the CL. It goes completely against what the league was set up to do.

 

 

yes I agree Peter but what is the point if policy dictates that opportunities in the PL are few and far between for guys coming from the CL? I like an exciting and accomplished overseas rider like the next guy but he should be of a certain standard and coming in at a fixed high average........ the 5 assessed PL average encourages teams to go for strength in depth and have a maximum of one 3 point rider... if any.......... the whole league is choked and purely because the promoters knew about the numbers of Aussies that they could sign this season and this is on top of the usual asset signing with the holy grail being false averages and prosperous assets........... once again as per other threads it is not the fault of these riders.... it is the fault of the promoters

 

If they did the sensible and supportive thing in the PL and CL and stuck to the plan results would be seen within 5 years and then attentions could be turned to the EL

[mikegum]

With you Spook, all the way.

I was not only saddened last night, but I was also very angry.

I have been saying much the same as you for quite a few years now. Unless the powers that be actually wake up and become aware of what has been happening for so many years now, the sport will die in the UK. As it is, it is now like a walking skeleton from whichever way you look at it. It needs feeding and nurturing from the grass roots up, even if it means going 5 years without any overpaid and highly skilled and motivated foreign riders within each of our leagues. Spend the money saved in air fares and develop a BRITISH PRODUCT. Remember Middlo going on about the shortage of British talent for the National Team, and then with the promoters (ahem!!) at his club, splashing out on Poles with low averages to then bring them on and develop them, whilst our youngsters didn't know if they were on foot or horseback. And yes, fans are equally to blame for not demanding to see more home produced talent. And when we do get someone like TW, so many pick holes in whether he considers himself to be an Aussie or a Brit instead of accepting the fact that he rides as a Brit and is packed-full of talent. Remember the days when Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger rode as Brits, even though they were all New Zealanders? No-one quibbled then. I am not suggesting that today's batch of antipodeans should ride under the Union Jack, but what I am saying is don't take your eye off the ball and accept and encourage the likes of TW and EK etc, 'cos we need 'em and more besides if we are to move forward.

 

Spot on & the thing is that this hasn't sudenly happened, we should have taken note in the early 80s when we became a fininshing school for young Danish talent & helped create the super power they are today.