Gb Bikes And Tuners

[speedy den boy]

Just watching the wtc from coventry we seem to be clueless on what set up to use at coventry despite all the boys being track experts.I just wondered if someone can tell me do other countrys get more backing for tuning engines for their countrys than us,as we were a mile off the pace.Do other countrys use one tuner to see overall that the bikes are ok.i think C Harris still uses swedens Brian A nderson but do the swedes use him too!?And scott uses a polish tuner now but still has no power.Think we need independent people in the pits to help and also leading up to this event.jUST GET SOME ENGLISH TUNERS IN THERE TO HELP OR HAVNT WE GOT THE BUDGET FOR THAT.

Edited July 14, 2008 by speedy den boy

[toonarmy084]

1 riders pay for there own tuners

2 i heard bomber wasnt with brian anymore and i think this is his downfall this year

3 scotty has a swiss tuner and not a polish 1 its the same guy who does most of hancocks engines

 

all in all just because one rider has a fast engine it dont mean that it would work for every rider as all riders are different on the bike different weights etc

 

scotty has arguably one of the best and he is certainly 1 of the most expensive tuners in the world still dont prove anything.

 

I watched the wtc on sky tv in austria as an outsider and it looked to me as if team gb where outgated out paced and out raced

 

 

[speedy den boy]

1 riders pay for there own tuners

2 i heard bomber wasnt with brian anymore and i think this is his downfall this year

3 scotty has a swiss tuner and not a polish 1 its the same guy who does most of hancocks engines

 

all in all just because one rider has a fast engine it dont mean that it would work for every rider as all riders are different on the bike different weights etc

 

scotty has arguably one of the best and he is certainly 1 of the most expensive tuners in the world still dont prove anything.

 

I watched the wtc on sky tv in austria as an outsider and it looked to me as if team gb where outgated out paced and out raced

 

thanks for the info but dont countrys federations put a little cash in to help ,as they are racing for their countrys not themselves.

[toonarmy084]

nope its an individual sport

[Liontamer]

Interesting to hear some of the comments from the English lads last night:

 

Scott Nicholls: "I swapped bikes for my last two rides."

 

Chris Harris: "I've been having a few bike problems."

 

Lee Richardson: "The bikes haven't been performing how I'd like them to."

 

Simon Stead: "Wow, did you see that full lock I pulled?"

 

[21st century heathen]

Just watching the wtc from coventry we seem to be clueless on what set up to use at coventry despite all the boys being track experts.I just wondered if someone can tell me do other countrys get more backing for tuning engines for their countrys than us,as we were a mile off the pace.Do other countrys use one tuner to see overall that the bikes are ok.i think C Harris still uses swedens Brian A nderson but do the swedes use him too!?And scott uses a polish tuner now but still has no power.Think we need independent people in the pits to help and also leading up to this event.jUST GET SOME ENGLISH TUNERS IN THERE TO HELP OR HAVNT WE GOT THE BUDGET FOR THAT.

 

DOH!!

 

It's up to the riders who they choose to pay their hard earned to.

 

Bottom line - Brits (generally) are crap out of the gate and can't ride slick tracks. They probably had too much power not too little. When there's no dirt you waste it all as they back wheels spins rather than gripping. Our boys were trying the normal Brandon race lines when all that was required was to pootle around the curb for most of the night.

 

Just look at the race times after the first few heats. Well over 61 seconds, by the end of the night, by some of the best riders in the world.

 

[Dogstar]

On last nights performance it looks like the GB bikes were tuned by forks!..

[spook]

I dont know who a couple of the posters in this thread are kidding but year on year now the Danes and the Poles prove that their engine tuning and bike setup has not been done individually.......... The Danes bikes were outrageous last night... they didnt do it from the gate half the time and instead we saw them overtaking by the time the 3rd bend came up even if they were off gate 3................ this is not just desire or talent.... this is 90% machinery

 

Kasprzak's future Polish team's aspirations would have taken a big dent this season as he quite obviously was not on the pace...... whether this undermines my argument or it simply means that either he or his mechanics didnt listen...i'm not sure ........ but the Poles are never caught napping in their own country

 

The tuning of our bikes and the general setup of them is a huge concern for me................ we had allsorts of things discussed by sky last night with the discussion finally turning to track temperature........ well hang on if we had so many Coventry 'specialists' in the team then surely they should have been ahead of the game there? ............ so how did the Swedes and the Danes figure it out? Was someone there with the necessary equipment to test such things?

 

If indeed as one of the posters suggest.... that Scott has one of the best tuners in the game then i'd suggest he is either being given shoddy work...... or that he needs to poach Greg's mechanics off him!

 

So this is two world cup events on the trot where the machinery has been well of the pace............ if thursday makes it three then it is finally time that the GB team manager's role is a little more than someone who keeps them sweet........ and that instead some involvement in the machinery takes place

 

 

 

 

I have a couple of questions........... Graham Jones was seen in the pits with Freddie Lindgren last night....... does that mean he is tuning his engines or just spannering?

and how many genuine world class tuners do we actually have?

[f-s-p]

I dont know who a couple of the posters in this thread are kidding but year on year now the Danes and the Poles prove that their engine tuning and bike setup has not been done individually.......... The Danes bikes were outrageous last night... they didnt do it from the gate half the time and instead we saw them overtaking by the time the 3rd bend came up even if they were off gate 3................ this is not just desire or talent.... this is 90% machinery

 

Kasprzak's future Polish team's aspirations would have taken a big dent this season as he quite obviously was not on the pace...... whether this undermines my argument or it simply means that either he or his mechanics didnt listen...i'm not sure ........ but the Poles are never caught napping in their own country

 

The tuning of our bikes and the general setup of them is a huge concern for me................ we had allsorts of things discussed by sky last night with the discussion finally turning to track temperature........ well hang on if we had so many Coventry 'specialists' in the team then surely they should have been ahead of the game there? ............ so how did the Swedes and the Danes figure it out? Was someone there with the necessary equipment to test such things?

 

If indeed as one of the posters suggest.... that Scott has one of the best tuners in the game then i'd suggest he is either being given shoddy work...... or that he needs to poach Greg's mechanics off him!

 

So this is two world cup events on the trot where the machinery has been well of the pace............ if thursday makes it three then it is finally time that the GB team manager's role is a little more than someone who keeps them sweet........ and that instead some involvement in the machinery takes place

You cant buy success. Even the best racing parts cant help to the title IF YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

Track temperature my ar$e...

[scotty2hotty]

Are the Danes and Poles bikes legal, this is the question. Are they ever checked? I don't think so. There is a lot of things a lot of people would like to say on this subject, but it is taboo or sour grapes isn't it?

Edited July 15, 2008 by scotty2hotty

[f-s-p]

Are the Danes and Poles bikes legal, this is the question. Are they ever checked? I don't think so. There is a lot of things a lot of people would like to say on this subject, but it is taboo or sour grapes isn't it?

 

Well if they thought or knew they were illegal, they should make a protest and put an end to it. It can be done.

 

070.14 PROTESTS AND PENALTIES

Protests and appeals are subject to the rules and proceedings provided for in the

FIM Disciplinary and Arbitration Code.

Any protest must be lodged immediately after the reason for the protest is

known. They must be in writing and accompanied by the fee stipulated in the SR

and submitted to the Clerk of the Course who in turn will submit them to the

Referee.

If the protest requires a measurement of the capacity of an engine which proves

to be in order, then the protesting party must pay the actual labour costs for

dismantling and reassembling the engine, up to a maximum of US$ 400.–.

[scotty2hotty]

Well if they thought or knew they were illegal, they should make a protest and put an end to it. It can be done.

 

070.14 PROTESTS AND PENALTIES

Protests and appeals are subject to the rules and proceedings provided for in the

FIM Disciplinary and Arbitration Code.

Any protest must be lodged immediately after the reason for the protest is

known. They must be in writing and accompanied by the fee stipulated in the SR

and submitted to the Clerk of the Course who in turn will submit them to the

Referee.

If the protest requires a measurement of the capacity of an engine which proves

to be in order, then the protesting party must pay the actual labour costs for

dismantling and reassembling the engine, up to a maximum of US$ 400.–.

 

It will never happen - politics. Can you imagine what would happen if a team were found to be cheating. The speedway world would be turned upside down. And who would be the biggest losers? And if England ever did it too, who would be the scapegoats?

Edited July 15, 2008 by scotty2hotty

[f-s-p]

It will never happen - politics.

Scared of getting caught themselves?

[iris123]

I heard a story at the weekend that is quite relevant.

 

A father of a top junior rider was selling the kids bike.Well he had sold it,but a father of one of his rivals heard and insisted he sell it to him instead.Eventually he agreed and the yguy stuck it straight in his van and went.Weeks later after the youngster had obviously ridden in a meeting the father came up all angry and said " You bugger!You've taken all the good bits off of this haven't you!".The guy had sold him the bike exactly as it was when his boy had been winning meetings on it.

He told me another very similar story as well on the same topic,but i don't have the time nor the inclination to type it out

[f-s-p]

I heard a story at the weekend that is quite relevant.

 

A father of a top junior rider was selling the kids bike.Well he had sold it,but a father of one of his rivals heard and insisted he sell it to him instead.Eventually he agreed and the yguy stuck it straight in his van and went.Weeks later after the youngster had obviously ridden in a meeting the father came up all angry and said " You bugger!You've taken all the good bits off of this haven't you!".The guy had sold him the bike exactly as it was when his boy had been winning meetings on it.

He told me another very similar story as well on the same topic,but i don't have the time nor the inclination to type it out

Indeed. Like I wrote in another thread 15 minutes ago, you cant buy success.

 

But so that you wouldn't feel too good about yourself the fact is that there's no point buying an engine of a world class rider unless you see him coming from a heat and go yourself and take it away from the bike. If you'd go the next day to his workshop to get the engine, they would have without a doubt have changed the cylinder head? of the engine (whatever the english word is) that is the most important part of the engine when it comes to the characteristics of it. Specially made by a top tuner it's also almost 50 % of the total cost of the engine.

[21st century heathen]

It would take a better mechanical mind than mine to explain things properly but there's far more to it than simply having the best engine. There are any number of parts to a bike and they all need to work in harmony with the rider. Most people think Nicki is the best rider in the world right now, but that doesn't mean he could jump on Crump's bikes and win the next GP, or visa versa.

 

Speedway engines would generally, in my understanding, be de-tuned by the rider so that they don't just spin up. They need the right gear for the track conditions. Tyre pressures are important as are the electrics (some riders have trouble with the cut-outs or plugs) and of course the clutch. The list must just go on and on and a rider is going to have to try every combination of everything to find something that suits his style of riding as well as track conditions for any nuumber of size, shape and surface of track. The difference between winning and losing is minute so everything falling into place is vital. Obviously a rider needs to have talent, that goes almost without saying, but there's not that much to choose between the worlds best riders. The difference on any one day could simply be a riders stumbling across something that works.

 

As an example of that I spoke to one the Wolves riders recently after he had ridden well at Monmore. He told me he was riding a 'big track bike' on the day and it just worked. He could only shrug his shoulders as to why it worked, but it did!!

 

It's never going to be as simple as Scott, or whoever, walking into his local corner shop and saying "I'll have two good speedway bikes please".

 

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

Edited July 15, 2008 by 21st century heathen

[spook]

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

 

argh dont get me started on him!

 

yeah I fully agree that the Danes know how to do things............... but getting back to the point I was making...... the chances are that they didnt do it individually ..... Bjarne does not have performance like that in the league ..... and to some degree he doesnt have it in the GP either.......... the same could be said for NKI and Bjerre................... and we dont need to go through the somewhat ordinary names in the swedish team and their performances do we?

 

FSP

I take your point but we are not talking about mugs here......... Scott is a top line rider wherever he goes...... yes his gating and machinery has been found wanting at GP level in recent years but he is still top drawer.......... Bomber was top drawer last season ..... and Rico bizarrely cant make up his mind whether he is or isnt.......................... you cannot tell me that last night was not just about being not good enough and that machinery didnt play a large part in it? Yes I dont think they stood a chance of winning with Stead and Allen in the team (although i though Allen did himself proud) but we certainly should have been up there with the swedes

 

as Rune Holta has proven time and time again.... you do not have to be a great rider to do well..... but you do need stonking machinery!

[MARK246]

Answering the point raised by spook about the Danes' bikes - They know how to set up a bike and ride it on a slick track. Why do you think the track was slick and do you think there'll be any dirt on the track Saturday night. Why do you think the GPs are on slick tracks. I'll give you a clue. His names begins with 'O', he loved slick tracks when he was riding and is now in a position to provide the Danes with the slick tracks they love.

 

Good post.

 

The strange thing to me is Scott ,Chris and in the past Lee, have all ridden on Ole Olsen prepared tracks.

Why is it a problem to set a bike up.

Scott Nicholls 60 GP's and every one starts like his first ever.

The Danes and the Swedes have the set up instantly, the British riders don't find it till race 15?

 

On to Thursday more of the same ? Don't the British talk to each other ? What is the point of the top three Brits being there if they can't (don't) help the less experienced riders ?

 

You are correct tunning engines is not the, b all and end all of bike preparation, communication and advice helps.

 

[speedy den boy]

I dont know who a couple of the posters in this thread are kidding but year on year now the Danes and the Poles prove that their engine tuning and bike setup has not been done individually.......... The Danes bikes were outrageous last night... they didnt do it from the gate half the time and instead we saw them overtaking by the time the 3rd bend came up even if they were off gate 3................ this is not just desire or talent.... this is 90% machinery

 

Kasprzak's future Polish team's aspirations would have taken a big dent this season as he quite obviously was not on the pace...... whether this undermines my argument or it simply means that either he or his mechanics didnt listen...i'm not sure ........ but the Poles are never caught napping in their own country

 

The tuning of our bikes and the general setup of them is a huge concern for me................ we had allsorts of things discussed by sky last night with the discussion finally turning to track temperature........ well hang on if we had so many Coventry 'specialists' in the team then surely they should have been ahead of the game there? ............ so how did the Swedes and the Danes figure it out? Was someone there with the necessary equipment to test such things?

 

If indeed as one of the posters suggest.... that Scott has one of the best tuners in the game then i'd suggest he is either being given shoddy work...... or that he needs to poach Greg's mechanics off him!

 

So this is two world cup events on the trot where the machinery has been well of the pace............ if thursday makes it three then it is finally time that the GB team manager's role is a little more than someone who keeps them sweet........ and that instead some involvement in the machinery takes place

 

 

 

 

I have a couple of questions........... Graham Jones was seen in the pits with Freddie Lindgren last night....... does that mean he is tuning his engines or just spannering?

and how many genuine world class tuners do we actually have?

 

GOOD post spook,i cant understand these other people who say the danes are used to slick tracks,EVERYONE was faster than us .You cant tell me Adrian Rymal as good as he is can come to coventry and be on the pace and we were NOT.AS soon as people come round and see a bit of sence and get people in the pits like Dave Jessup or Malc simmons over seeing things and the little details that help the team go forward.I say again peter johns does Adams engines just get him in to over see whats happening.

[Trees]

What was the track like when TeamGB did their practice, did they time their 4 laps, did they race one another? It was almost as if they didn't practice????