suzuki star 882 Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Ah ok thankyou! That makes more sense! But what was Nigel P nattering on about then saying Lindgren had won the the grand prix?! Did he just mean in terms of the fact Lindgren ha dominated it and so was the 'real' winner? Thanks for the explanations guys! Nigel simply got it wrong about Lindgren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Whats the crack with this super prix thing? A gimmick to get more people to attend the German Grand Prix. Nigel simply got it wrong about Lindgren. He can't help being a screaming imbecile, poor chap - I just wish he'd do it somewhere where I can't hear him. And he can take Kelvin "I haven't a clue" Tatum MBE with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) In Nigel defence. Which rider was happier in the scheme of things after the final? Rune who scored 17 or Freddie who had 22? Bomber proved last year, winner a GP while bloody great means little (he did score the most point too so maybe not the best example), you have to score point over the course of a season. Holta will never amount to more than a GP rider who once won a GP, Freddie will one day win a GP and possibly even a World title. Holta won the GP but is still 9th, Freddie top scored and is 3rd over all, who's happier? I guess Rune is pretty pleased as he has a 1 in 4 (less realistically, you have to fancy one of the top boys to win one of the super prix GP's and beat him in the super prix race) chance of $200,000 In respect of the over all championship, Freddie won last week. Just a shame the farce of a final and they way the point works will how Rune as the winner Edited June 1, 2008 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 In Nigel defence. Which rider was happier in the scheme of things after the final? Rune who scored 17 or Freddie who had 22? Bomber proved last year, winner a GP while bloody great means little (he did score the most point too so maybe not the best example), you have to score point over the course of a season. Holta will never amount to more than a GP rider who once won a GP, Freddie will one day win a GP and possibly even a World title. Holta, obviously. He's a GP winner. Last season, to use your example, who was happier, the new British champion or Harris? I suggest Harris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yes because Nicholls didn't score more points than Harris. Lindgren scored more than Holta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yes because Nicholls didn't score more points than Harris. Lindgren scored more than Holta. Who cares about points scored at this stage? It's about winning Grands Prix. Holta has won one, Lindgren hasn't. I know whose shoes I'd rather be in and they're the ones worn by a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Who cares about points scored at this stage? It's about winning Grands Prix. Holta has won one, Lindgren hasn't. I know whose shoes I'd rather be in and they're the ones worn by a winner. Subedei - I thought you'd rather be wearing driving shoes. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Who cares about points scored at this stage? It's about winning Grands Prix. Holta has won one, Lindgren hasn't. I know whose shoes I'd rather be in and they're the ones worn by a winner. Well I'd rather be in Lindgrens and adding 22 points to my WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP total rather than Holta adding only 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Well I'd rather be in Lindgrens and adding 22 points to my WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP total rather than Holta adding only 17. Silver Bee - at the end of the day, speedway riders (although largely splendid chaps) are rather egotistical beasts. I think most of them would prefer to win a Grand Prix and worry about the points situation later. The exceptions are the likes of Nicki Pedersen and Jason Crump who keep a constant eye on points scored (look at the canny display by Nicki at Ullevi) - but they've the mindset of champions which marks them out as different from most of the pack. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Whilst as a general rule I agree, I think freddie's a bit more sensible from what I've seen of him in the Grand Prix's. Far rather get the points in the bag and the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 The exceptions are the likes of Nicki Pedersen and Jason Crump who keep a constant eye on points scored (look at the canny display by Nicki at Ullevi) - but they've the mindset of champions which marks them out as different from most of the pack. And they've nothing to prove - both multiple GP winners and both world champions. If Lindgren's happier with his 22 points than being a champion, then he's going down the wrong road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 He's more likely to be world champion under the current system coming second and scoring 22 than winning and scoring 17 isn't he? I'm not doubting he'd have prefed to win the GP and score 24, however out of the 2 options, (winning and scoring 17 or 2nd and scoring 22) I'm sure he's happy where he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 He's more likely to be world champion under the current system coming second and scoring 22 than winning and scoring 17 isn't he? Which just shows what a nonsense the current scoring regime is, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Which just shows what a nonsense the current scoring regime is, doesn't it? That much I'm not disputing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Ah the Grand Prix monster . Tracks either like a motorway or downright dangerous . You can win a GP and receive less points for your efforts than the guy who finishes second . Disrupts speedway every other week . Makes you yearn for a good old one-off world final dont it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schumi Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 He's more likely to be world champion under the current system coming second and scoring 22 than winning and scoring 17 isn't he? I'm not doubting he'd have preferred to win the GP and score 24, however out of the 2 options, (winning and scoring 17 or 2nd and scoring 22) I'm sure he's happy where he was. Let's face it - he's not going to be world champion this year, so that makes your second point debateable. But I don't think you're right on this occasion. Who's going to remember how many points he scored, even if he DID become world champion? But they'd remember if he won the GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Let's face it - he's not going to be world champion this year, so that makes your second point debateable. But I don't think you're right on this occasion. Who's going to remember how many points he scored, even if he DID become world champion? But they'd remember if he won the GP. I don't want to get into a completely petty discussion with you guys and I don't completely disagree with what you're saying. Thing is, it's not our opinions that can 'settle' it, it's Freddies. Don't get me wrong, I bet he's gutted he didn't win the GP, I would be, especially after a 6 ride maximum. At the time it wouldn't have been nice, however after the adrenaline has worn off and he thinks about it, he's scored more than Holta who's won it has, so some consolation there. Had him and Holta been the other way around, Lindgren would have been over the moon he'd won the GP, but then, after the adrenaline had worn off he'd realise that someone below him had actually scored more and be, to a degree, rather disappointed. Again, I know I would be. I suppose it depends on what Freddies goal was at the start of the season. To win a Gp? To make the Top 8? If it was to win a GP on this occasion he's failed. If it was to make the top 8, he's contributed more towards that than Holta did. Edited June 1, 2008 by Silver Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schumi Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I don't want to get into a completely petty discussion with you guys and I don't completely disagree with what you're saying. Petty? I thought it was quite sensible. However in future I'll refrain from posting anything on threads that Subedei has previously posted on. As has been pointed out to me far too often for my liking I'm "guilty by association", and therefore don't seem able to have my own opinion without people thinking I'm backing him, rather than having a discussion of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) To be honest, Lindgren and Holta are in different situations. Holta's a bit of a "Nobody's Child" - his home nation is too small in speedway terms and the Poles would probably rather have a genuine Pole in the series ahead of him. Sweden are a big nation, albeit going through lean times at the minute, with only Jonsson and Lindgren up to standard. Holta's GP win probably keeps him in the GPs next season, regardless of future performance - how can BSI-FIM drop a current Grand Prix champion. Lindgren's nationality will probably save him, if he fails to qualify. But, imagine a scenario where both fail to qualify and there are no external circumstances - a Grand Prix winner and a rider who scored 5 points more than him over the course of a season. They're going to pick the winner, aren't they? And then there's money - Holta picked up the winner's cheque, not Lindgren. And that winner's cheque is bigger than the one for second. Edited June 1, 2008 by Subedei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Petty? I thought it was quite sensible. However in future I'll refrain from posting anything on threads that Subedei has previously posted on. As has been pointed out to me far too often for my liking I'm "guilty by association", and therefore don't seem able to have my own opinion without people thinking I'm backing him, rather than having a discussion of my own. No no! I wasn't suggesting either of you were being petty! My apologies ! All I meant was the longer this dragged out people would deem it as a petty argument. If I thought it was I wouldn't have taken the time to reply. To be honest, Lindgren and Holta are in different situations. Holta's a bit of a "Nobody's Child" - his home nation is too small in speedway terms and the Poles would probably rather have a genuine Pole in the series ahead of him. Sweden are a big nation, albeit going through lean times at the minute, with only Jonsson and Lindgren up to standard. Holta's GP win probably keeps him in the GPs next season, regardless of future performance - how can BSI-FIM drop a current Grand Prix champion. Lindgren's nationality will probably save him, if he fails to qualify. But, imagine a scenario where both fail to qualify and there are no external circumstances - a Grand Prix winner and a rider who scored 5 points more than him over the course of a season. They're going to pick the winner, aren't they? Again, hard to disagree. BSI have said in the past they want GP winners, however with Lindgrens current points situation, the extra points he's scored will probably be more of an advantage to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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