Weslake 4 Valve

[oultonpark]

hello too everyone,i am new on here and new to the world of speedway engines, i am toying with the idea of fitting a weslake 4 valve engine into my BSA Goldstar frame with the view too roadracing but i have only just found out about the total loss oil system used on the weslake and feel unsure that this method of lubrication and cooling would be ok for long periods of racing.Is there anyway way of setting up a re-circulating system on these engines ? does anyone know of any sort of conversion that might have been tried and tested ?,can anyone explain to me how the total loss system works and has anyone got any information on this as in pdf format or any microfiche drawings......any thoughts on this topic, pro's and con's, will help.... Thanks Bri.

ps... have already been told too use a jawa engine in place of a wessy,but these are to modern for classic road racing .

[colin]

hello too everyone,i am new on here and new to the world of speedway engines, i am toying with the idea of fitting a weslake 4 valve engine into my BSA Goldstar frame with the view too roadracing but i have only just found out about the total loss oil system used on the weslake and feel unsure that this method of lubrication and cooling would be ok for long periods of racing.Is there anyway way of setting up a re-circulating system on these engines ? does anyone know of any sort of conversion that might have been tried and tested ?,can anyone explain to me how the total loss system works and has anyone got any information on this as in pdf format or any microfiche drawings......any thoughts on this topic, pro's and con's, will help.... Thanks Bri.

ps... have already been told too use a jawa engine in place of a wessy,but these are to modern for classic road racing .

 

Hi oultonpark & welcome, the total loss system does what it say's really, oil is pumped into the engine to lubricate main bearing, big end etc & is pumped up to lube the top end, & is then expelled out through a flap valve type arrangement at the base of the engine. Basically the compression of the engine allows the flap to open & close thus expelling the oil.

By the way a 4 valve Wessy (approx started manufacture in the mid to late seventies) is far younger

than a 2 valve jawa.

 

Good luck

Colin

[oultonpark]

Hi oultonpark & welcome, the total loss system does what it say's really, oil is pumped into the engine to lubricate main bearing, big end etc & is pumped up to lube the top end, & is then expelled out through a flap valve type arrangement at the base of the engine. Basically the compression of the engine allows the flap to open & close thus expelling the oil.

By the way a 4 valve Wessy (approx started manufacture in the mid to late seventies) is far younger

than a 2 valve jawa.

 

Good luck

Colin

Thanks for your reply colin, i will have a look at using a jawa engine if they run a re-circ system and i can find one cheap enough,or i might stick with the wessy and try and use the flap valve to return the oil back to a remote tank fitted with a pressure release valve of some sort.If i can manage to get this up and running i will post some pics on here...thanks again Bri

[pudding]

i once read on a thumper site a lad in oz was putting a speedway engine ( think it was a wessy ) into a trail bike

seem to remember he used to be a mechanic for a speedway rider many moons ago

anyway he converted it to petrol & worked out the total loss system

 

you could also check out the hill climbers as i think some of them lads use speedway engines

 

sorry i cant be more help , but it has been done before , so keep doing your research

[Trackman]

G/Day OP.

One way around it .. use the oil catcher as fitted on most Weslakes, modifide to fit a Jawa, dirll a hole 1/3rd of the way up the contaner, place a fitting in, fix a hose running to the oil tank under the seat.

Regards.

PS.

You can also run good motor oil in her too. (;O)) Vegy oil dont like doing 20 laps of any motor. (;o)

 

 

hello too everyone, explain to me how the total loss system works and has anyone got any information on this as in pdf format or any microfiche drawings......any thoughts on this topic, pro's and con's, will help.... Thanks Bri.

ps... to modern for classic road racing .

Edited May 17, 2008 by Trackman

[jawatiger]

hello too everyone,i am new on here and new to the world of speedway engines, i am toying with the idea of fitting a weslake 4 valve engine into my BSA Goldstar frame with the view too roadracing but i have only just found out about the total loss oil system used on the weslake and feel unsure that this method of lubrication and cooling would be ok for long periods of racing.Is there anyway way of setting up a re-circulating system on these engines ? does anyone know of any sort of conversion that might have been tried and tested ?,can anyone explain to me how the total loss system works and has anyone got any information on this as in pdf format or any microfiche drawings......any thoughts on this topic, pro's and con's, will help.... Thanks Bri.

ps... have already been told too use a jawa engine in place of a wessy,but these are to modern for classic road racing .

Jawa stwo valve speedway bengines have been fi ttted to BSA frames for road racing, check out BSA O.C. my mate Mick Wainwright runs Jawa in a Seeley frame in classic races here and in Europe.He has turned the total loss system into a re-ciculating system and has it running on petrol rather than methanol. the Weslake won't be eligible for classic racing too young

 

[cpbyles]

Jawa stwo valve speedway bengines have been fi ttted to BSA frames for road racing, check out BSA O.C. my mate Mick Wainwright runs Jawa in a Seeley frame in classic races here and in Europe.He has turned the total loss system into a re-ciculating system and has it running on petrol rather than methanol. the Weslake won't be eligible for classic racing too young

 

Came across an article that went :

 

"Big single fan David Witt made such a good job of his BSA-Jawa that it looks like a factory built bike. David used parts around him to build up his project which spanned over a couple of years.

The Jawa engine was bought in 1968 by his former speedway racing brother, Alan. The BSA A7SS frame and cycle parts are from a 1961 model.

 

Engine compression was reduced from 14 to 9:1, and the speedo showed that around 75mph was about top whack. The forks were somewhat less than ideal, but the note from the matt black Goldie silencer seemed to more than make up for it.

Indeed, Dave was the first to admit the bike was far from perfect. He built it as a Budget special for less than £500, but at the time of writing, David planned to make further improvments now that the basic work had been completed.

Aligning the chain proved to be one of the biggest headaches. He used an A10 rear wheel, Honda 250 sprocket, 650 pre-unit Triumph clutch with single row chain primary drive, and a BSA four speed gearbox.

The motor is fired by a BTH competition magnets with no advance or retard and fed by a 40mm Amal Concentric. Lights are powered by a dynamo driven by a sprocket off the back of the clutch drum.

Speedway fans will know that the all alloy pushrod Jawa engines are run on a total loss oil system. David has beaten this problem for road use by mounting an A10 oil pump on the outside of a locally made timing cover."

 

Have a couple of pictures of this machine if you're interested, I can email to you

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marcusthepom]

very sad when a weslake would be fitted to a road bike,whats up with the world.

mate use anything but a wessie

[Hoofhearted]

I'm coming in on this very late. Sorry, I'm new to this forum. Only came across it a day or so ago. I have an old Weslake 500 pushrod motor in a 1960 featherbed frame. I don't know exactly what year it is and I'd love to find out. No. 2551E LPS. I was over in Ireland for a while and built it as a short circuit vintage racer. But the vintage powers that be over there sort of frowned on a four valver in vintage racer. What got up my nose was one saying to me that it was a nice bike. "Too bad its illegal for vintage racing." This was from a guy with a two week old Summerfield replica!

 

I moved back home to California and wasn't sure what to do with it. So I took up land speed racing. I'm old, had done the road racing bit for years, and wanted to do something. I've been flogging it at El Mirage dry lake for the past eleven years and one trip to Bonneville salt flats. It holds its class record at both venues. The best run was at El Mirage which was 129.817. I run it on VP C12 race gas. 14:1 comp. and 35 deg. fixed advance. No problems.

 

I saw a article on an Aussie racer that used a two valve ESO in a featherbed. The article claimed that he had developed a return for the total loss using crankcase pressure. I tried to do that but without success. I wound up making a fiberglass catch tank under the motor. Doing the LSR lark I have reduced the size of the tank over the years. It has proved to be an unbreakable engine. I bought a second motor, an Antig Weslake. Its in an LSR sidecar that I'm finishing up. I put it in the Norton and it cranked off a 125 run. Again, on gas.

 

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Edited October 12, 2008 by Hoofhearted

[ausiebloke]

I'm coming in on this very late. Sorry, I'm new to this forum. Only came across it a day or so ago. I have an old Weslake 500 pushrod motor in a 1960 featherbed frame. I don't know exactly what year it is and I'd love to find out. No. 2551E LPS. I was over in Ireland for a while and built it as a short circuit vintage racer. But the vintage powers that be over there sort of frowned on a four valver in vintage racer. What got up my nose was one saying to me that it was a nice bike. "Too bad its illegal for vintage racing." This was from a guy with a two week old Summerfield replica!

 

I moved back home to California and wasn't sure what to do with it. So I took up land speed racing. I'm old, had done the road racing bit for years, and wanted to do something. I've been flogging it at El Mirage dry lake for the past eleven years and one trip to Bonneville salt flats. It holds its class record at both venues. The best run was at El Mirage which was 129.817. I run it on VP C12 race gas. 14:1 comp. and 35 deg. fixed advance. No problems.

 

I saw a article on an Aussie racer that used a two valve ESO in a featherbed. The article claimed that he had developed a return for the total loss using crankcase pressure. I tried to do that but without success. I wound up making a fiberglass catch tank under the motor. Doing the LSR lark I have reduced the size of the tank over the years. It has proved to be an unbreakable engine. I bought a second motor, an Antig Weslake. Its in an LSR sidecar that I'm finishing up. I put it in the Norton and it cranked off a 125 run. Again, on gas.

 

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Not to sure whats the go there if they are botht the same bike ?

One has exaust going over the top of the gearbox and the other is below the gear box ??

But the close up of the engine looks to have nuts on the head studs so maybe mark 1 or 2 wesyy the later ones had inserts instead of nuts

Anyone else want to jump in here??

[Weslake500]

Not to sure whats the go there if they are botht the same bike ?

One has exaust going over the top of the gearbox and the other is below the gear box ??

But the close up of the engine looks to have nuts on the head studs so maybe mark 1 or 2 wesyy the later ones had inserts instead of nuts

Anyone else want to jump in here??

 

Hi

 

Looking at your pic's on the post, iv got a couple of Weslakes myself and opinions on the engine

 

Hope this helps.

 

Weslake made the nuts on the head till the mk4 (I think)...The pictures of your engine could be a mk1/2/3/4 after that it was the, MK 5 with screw in bolts to the head

 

The barrell, conrod, pushrods are all shortend on the mk5. Also the bearings on the bigend are needle in-caged bearings rather then bigger caged bearings on the Mk 1-4

 

I heard Harry Weslake back in the day, ordered a entire line of mk1's crankcases to be melted down after they kept cracking/blowing up,

The mk1 had a bald crankcase which is rare if found.. Mr weslake later modifled them with 4 supports in the casting from the outer crankcase edge to the timing cover which fixed the problem.

 

I also heard the Mk of a Wessy can be identified by the number of inlet manifold bolts (If is true i do not know? ?) eg your photos Mk3

 

there are 2 types of mainfold side port or center

 

If you ever found a rocker cover with the words Weslake written into it, other than the normal W... You have found Dragon sh*t!!!

 

If you look on the net for Dave Norish Raceing or Antig engineering, tell either of them the engine number he can tell you the year, month also hew bought the engine originaly

 

 

Hope this helps

Edited October 14, 2008 by Weslake500

[Hoofhearted]

Many thanks for your replies. The rocker cover does have the W only. It is a three bolt inlet manifold. I have a straight and a slightly offset intake manifolds. The straight intake was at a steep angle and when running flat out for 2 1/4 miles would cause the float to drain and the engine would go flat. When I changed to the angled manifold, which has a shallower angle, things improved considerably. It is a "long rod" engine or so I've been told. The barrel has 5 fins. I have a later Weslake motor with a 4 bolt intake . On the rocker cover is cast AW so I'm assuming that is Antig Weslake. They are both terrific and bulletproof motors. The early one in the Norton has made 20 runs over 120 without any problems including three runs at Bonneville on a course of 2 1/4 miles in length. I ran out of gearing at about a mile and a half and it was a case of holding the throttle until the 2 1/4 mile mark. I have to admit I am amazed t their strength.

 

 

The photos are of the same bike. When I put the fairing on I had to change to a hgh pipe as the low pipe wouldn't clear the fairing. I was more curious than anything as to the age of the motor. I have a friend in Northern California that has a Weslake that is engine no. 13. He uses it as a doorstop. It should be on a mount and on a coffee table.

 

[Trackman]

G/Day HH

What time did you run on your 129.817mph pass ....Please.

Regards.

 

 

Many thanks for your replies. The early one in the Norton has made 20 runs over 120 without any problems including three runs at Bonneville on a course of 2 1/4 miles in length. I ran out of gearing at about a mile and a half and it was a case of holding the throttle until the 2 1/4 mile mark. I have to admit I am amazed t their strength.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Trackman

[Weslake500]

Many thanks for your replies. The rocker cover does have the W only. It is a three bolt inlet manifold. I have a straight and a slightly offset intake manifolds. The straight intake was at a steep angle and when running flat out for 2 1/4 miles would cause the float to drain and the engine would go flat. When I changed to the angled manifold, which has a shallower angle, things improved considerably. It is a "long rod" engine or so I've been told. The barrel has 5 fins. I have a later Weslake motor with a 4 bolt intake . On the rocker cover is cast AW so I'm assuming that is Antig Weslake. They are both terrific and bulletproof motors. The early one in the Norton has made 20 runs over 120 without any problems including three runs at Bonneville on a course of 2 1/4 miles in length. I ran out of gearing at about a mile and a half and it was a case of holding the throttle until the 2 1/4 mile mark. I have to admit I am amazed t their strength.

 

 

The photos are of the same bike. When I put the fairing on I had to change to a hgh pipe as the low pipe wouldn't clear the fairing. I was more curious than anything as to the age of the motor. I have a friend in Northern California that has a Weslake that is engine no. 13. He uses it as a doorstop. It should be on a mount and on a coffee table.

 

Weslakes are a very strong and solid motor and made from proper materials. Not like this weak ass japanise metel in modern motors which smashes to bits after a knock...

 

The power a speedway motor is raw power, its intresting to know that a wessy can pull over 120 mph with the proper gearing and drag raceing conditions..

"I wanna come over and have a go"

 

The one the thing i do like is the sound of a good running Weslake (with no silencer of course!)

 

The antig weslake motor you have is a MK6, Antig took over part of weslake when it closed down...i know there has been a few mods in the years that engine tuners mess about with some better than others

 

Eg: a brass cam block in stead of a alloy one, a brass one dose not wear down as quick as alloy

 

The older motor you have you might find the parts are harder too find as there not made anymore, the AW you have dave will have at antig.

 

The weslake motor your friend has no 13 would he sell it?, as i would stand it near my fire place.

 

Regards

[Hoofhearted]

El Mirage is a dry lake in the high desert of southern California. It is at an altitude of 2800 ft but has had air densities as high as 6500 ft. But usually the air density is around 45-4800 ft. The old Weslake has been running over 120 consistently for the past few years. I'm trying to get it over 130. Maybe this year. El Mirage doesn't have a drag racing attitude. The course is 1.3 miles in length. No elapsed time is recorded. Its purely a run for top speed. If you ever get a desire to run give me a shout. Come on over and you can take it for a run or two.

 

The Antig Weslake is going into a sidecar I'm building for LSR. I stuck it in the Norton last year to see how it would run. It managed a 124 run so its not too bad either. This is the sidecar its in.

 

Dave (owner of engine no.13) has a fair amoun of bits for the old Weslake. The last major rebuild involved a new(ish) crank and a new rod. Dave called David Perry who sent the "last long rod" he had. So I have the feeling that if anything happens this motor will become a decoration. And i don't think Dave would part with no. 13. He has some emotional attachments for it.

 

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[Buxton]

Just a quick note. The threaded insert type head is a long Track head. It was done to allow larger inlet ports to be used if required, if you look you will see on the threaded type there is no `recess` for the nut to fit on a stud, as in the speedway type. Larger ports were ok on the LT and some GTs but smaller ports were found to produce a smoother `bottom end`.....more suited to speedway, so the speedway type is most common on, suprisingly, speedway! You could order a Weslake 500 with either speedway or Longtrack type head, its not necessary a way to tell th MK of engine.

[Hoofhearted]

Weslakes are a very strong and solid motor and made from proper materials. Not like this weak ass japanise metel in modern motors which smashes to bits after a knock...

 

The power a speedway motor is raw power, its intresting to know that a wessy can pull over 120 mph with the proper gearing and drag raceing conditions..

"I wanna come over and have a go"

 

The one the thing i do like is the sound of a good running Weslake (with no silencer of course!)

 

I found this photo so I thought I'd post it. I love the power the Wessie makes. Check the power pulses in the dirt being kicked up from the rear wheel. The time on this run was 129.917mph.

 

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Close up of the engine.

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Other side.

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P.S. Weslake 500. Anytime you are out this way or want to come out you are welcome to take the Norton for a rip up the lakebed.

 

Found this for Oultonpark. Mondello Park around 1994.

 

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Edited December 17, 2008 by Hoofhearted

[Hoofhearted]

I saw this on another forum over here. No details or information. I'm assuming its a DOHC Weslake. But the frame etc. I don't know. Anyone got any idea.? It looks well done and if it was in my garage I wouldn't be too unhappy. I'm also curious to know how it got the Rudge name on the tank. I know there was somebody n England bought the Rudge name and had a GP 50 or 80 racing as a Rudge. Could this be from the same person?

 

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Edited April 5, 2009 by Hoofhearted

[Hoofhearted]

The sidecar finally fired up today. Not that anyone cares. I had been trying to figure out how to start it for a while now and came up with this. Its a starter with a built in gear reduction. Turns the Wessie over nicely. Out of curiosity how are Wessies started apart from bump starting?

 

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And its final incarnation minus the fairings.

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Edited April 9, 2009 by Hoofhearted

[Weslake500]

The sidecar finally fired up today. Not that anyone cares. I had been trying to figure out how to start it for a while now and came up with this. Its a starter with a built in gear reduction. Turns the Wessie over nicely. Out of curiosity how are Wessies started apart from bump starting?

 

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And its final incarnation minus the fairings.

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Hello Mate,

 

Hows things? Anything Weslake mate im intrested! Looks like a mean machine the sidecar mate LOL.. just took your post and thought id answer your question, without bump starting speedway lads have the bike on a center-stand. Which is just in front of the back wheel and they pull the wheel back on compression and throw the wheel forward!

 

Maybe you could do the same with your side-car? You might have a little difficulty if your sidecar is geared.

 

 

Take a look at my Weslake this is how a Speedway Weslake is suppost to look like!

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2009 by Weslake500