Ashie Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 This is what I don't understand. What has Woffinden done to show he should be considered? Yes he's doing well in the Premier League and the U21, but he hasn't ridden against the best riders to prove he can do it at this level. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent, but he hasn't proven it at the highlest level yet. Not helped by idiots like Pearson bigging up every 2 seconds, Woofy, Woofy, Woofy. I counted 6 or 7 mentions last night. Last year it was 'Bomber Harris' this, 'Bomber Harris' that, which results in many fans expecting these riders to win every single race, every single GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The FIM have put a qualification system in place to try to ensure the best riders are in the championship. Why do riders bother to spend money and time investing in the system, when the individual federations ignore the results. If a rider does not feel confident about his chance of qualification through the proper route, he should not be included in the championship  Don't forget Scott qualified by right this year as the world number 8.  It's Chris that was given the nomination.  It does make you think what planet people are on sometimes. If the GB team are getting comments like this even when they are still in the competition...  Most of the comments are justified. Why should we 'kiss it better'? On the whole it was a crap performance. There's no sugar-coating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemma Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Good post. I agree with hatcham though. Scotty can be a winner, and I'm not sure what's been missing in the GP's. A few chances to win one have come and gone. He screwed up the U21's all those years ago as well. Yet, he's a mutli-time British Champion, and has an average consistantly between 9 and 10 in the British League. Â I suspect he just may not be mentally tough enough to up his game to the required level to win at international level. Maybe he never will be? He's not alone there, and there's nothing wrong with that - after all that's why so few ever make it to be world champions at their chosen sport. Talent, potential, sponsorship etc etc aren't necessarily enough. You have to have that something extra, that something that marks you out from the rest and leads you to beat the very best. Look at past champions - Hans Nielsen, Tony Rickardsson, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, to name but four... All extremely tough competitors, and mentally very strong under pressure. That is what it takes to really succeed at the top level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1500uk Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Didn't know where to post this, seeing as there's so many topics, but decided to post views on last night here. Â First off, I'm actually glad I went, despite GB's poor overall performance It was such a pleasure to see Daniel Nermark racing again in particular. Always have argued that he could mix it up with the top riders and I think he proved that last night. Might be old and past it to some, but not to me I was contemplating getting a Swedish flag and showing them some support, but decided against it...looks like I should have done what I first thought after all... Â The only positive to take from last nights performance by GB was Olly. I know many thought he should have done better, being classed as a "track specialist", but what else could the guy do? He appeared to be trying his heart out and at least he scored a few more than someone I could mention *cough* Simon Stead *cough* Since the line up was announced, I've always said it should have been someone like Woffinden or Kennett in in the place of Stead. I think they may have given a better account of themselves. Â As for Nicholls, Harris and Richardson, well only Harris and Richardson appeared to do anything much, and even they looked as though they were struggling. I had actually completely forgotten Nicholls had had that tumble with Daniel Nermark in Sweden recently, so maybe that was why he done so badly? Harris I know had broken his nose in the British GP, so presumably that didn't help him much either. Â 9 times out of 10, races are won from the gate and last night, Team GB just didn't make the gate (or got shoved out on the 1st bend) and even when we were behind, we just couldn't find a way past. Â Anyway, despite all that, I am glad I went. Thinking there could be some team changes come Thursday though... Sweden, Poland and Russia as opponents...oh heck! Edited July 15, 2008 by em1500uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hamilton Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Sorry about this, but did I miss something about Lukas Dryml, has he been injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I suspect he just may not be mentally tough enough to up his game to the required level to win at international level. Maybe he never will be? He's not alone there, and there's nothing wrong with that - after all that's why so few ever make it to be world champions at their chosen sport. Talent, potential, sponsorship etc etc aren't necessarily enough. You have to have that something extra, that something that marks you out from the rest and leads you to beat the very best. Look at past champions - Hans Nielsen, Tony Rickardsson, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, to name but four... All extremely tough competitors, and mentally very strong under pressure. That is what it takes to really succeed at the top level. Â I would agree with the point you're making, but not necessarily the riders you've named. Gundersen spoke quite openly about how he messed with Hans' head to beat him, and Nicki managed to turn cracks into wide open valley's when he put pressure in Crump in '03(?- his first championship win). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Had a quick scan through posts. Scott Nichols was and still is a great rider,but even he cannot control a bike with using only one arm(i.e.he had a badly damaged shoulder).It speaks volumes for the bloke's courage that he was prepared to give it a go.Make no mistake Scotty will be back and improving on that GP final place he earned at Cardiff. Â If he wasn't fit why not wait till the race off ? There was no hope of team GB winning anyway against the Danes. This meeting would have been a better test fo the younger riders. Sorry, but poor Scotty is not 100% fit is not a real reason for his score. Maybe he is more concerned about his 15 minutes of fame than team GB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binthere Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Ashamed of British speedway. How desperately we need a team of battlers, not bottlers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigeddiechek Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Best British Qualifier last year was Richard Hall and this year it's Lee Richardson. Why does Scott Nicholls get the nomination? No idea. He's well past his sell by date. Â Looks rather out of shape too, which can't help... Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 This is what I don't understand. What has Woffinden done to show he should be considered? Yes he's doing well in the Premier League and the U21, but he hasn't ridden against the best riders to prove he can do it at this level. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent, but he hasn't proven it at the highlest level yet. Woffinden did well in the GB Final at Swindon but when you see the performance of the GB team last night you wonder just how good you had to be.The lad does have huge talent but lets not put this much pressure on young shoulders.Its up to Nicholls and Harris to stand up on thursday and be counted,they are ment to be our top two and in the GPs.Also Richardson who seems to talk a good race and can tell us why we arent doing very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkirkbandit Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I think you should all look at what happened in Denmark over the last week, a mini WC on 80cc bikes between Danish, Swedish, Polish and Austrialian teenagers...where was the young British lads???...The SCB must have known it was happening because the ref was British. We've gotta put far more in to get any rewards like winning the SWC. I hope Denmark do win, they have an awesome team full of characters and entertaining riders. Â Â Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo_1515 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Woffinden did well in the GB Final at Swindon but when you see the performance of the GB team last night you wonder just how good you had to be.The lad does have huge talent but lets not put this much pressure on young shoulders.Its up to Nicholls and Harris to stand up on thursday and be counted,they are ment to be our top two and in the GPs.Also Richardson who seems to talk a good race and can tell us why we arent doing very well. Â I wasn't having a dig at Woffinden, but a lot of people on here are saying he should have been included last night. I was making the point that he hasn't proven anything at this level either. Olly has had two good seasons in the Elite League, Woffinden is doing well in the Premier league. Pearson keeps bigging him up, and he may well turn out to be a massive talent and successful in the GPs, but putting him in a competition like this, expecting him to do a good job may destroy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerblues Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I wasn't having a dig at Woffinden, but a lot of people on here are saying he should have been included last night. I was making the point that he hasn't proven anything at this level either. Olly has had two good seasons in the Elite League, Woffinden is doing well in the Premier league. Pearson keeps bigging him up, and he may well turn out to be a massive talent and successful in the GPs, but putting him in a competition like this, expecting him to do a good job may destroy him. I think the fans have got to get behind Tai, support him but don't slate him if he doesn't perform well. He's got an intelligent head on his shoulders so I don't think a bad performance in itself will affect him, he knows there's a chance he'll be out of his depth, but as long as the fans realise this too he should be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I wasn't having a dig at Woffinden, but a lot of people on here are saying he should have been included last night. I was making the point that he hasn't proven anything at this level either. Olly has had two good seasons in the Elite League, Woffinden is doing well in the Premier league. Pearson keeps bigging him up, and he may well turn out to be a massive talent and successful in the GPs, but putting him in a competition like this, expecting him to do a good job may destroy him. Agree,think it shows what a mess we are in when we are relying on a 17yr old to pull us out of the hole we find ourselves in after last night.Woffinden is a huge talent but its up to our experienced internatiomal riders to pull their fingers out.Nicholls,Harris and Richardson.Also I dont think Olly Allen did anything wrong last night but wheres the incentive when you know youre out next meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Well done Rymel & Nermark, you did the PL proud. Â Hopefully Tai can do the same on Thursday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemma Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I would agree with the point you're making, but not necessarily the riders you've named. Gundersen spoke quite openly about how he messed with Hans' head to beat him, and Nicki managed to turn cracks into wide open valley's when he put pressure in Crump in '03(?- his first championship win). Â I stick with the riders I've named - because they have all been world champions and therefore have shown that they do have the mental toughness, that something extra required to do so. The fact that they may have been beaten (or put under pressure) by another rider who went on to win the title is irrelevant - no-one can be expected to be an automaton and be mentally tough enough to win on every single occasion. The day comes when even a champion meets his match or has had his day. However the point is that all those riders had shown they had what it took at least once. Most riders will never have the talent, or most importantly, the strength where it matters the most - in their head - to get there even that one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Finally, the trackwas a factor whether people see it as an excuse or not. Brits are generally crap out the gate and can't ride slick tracks. It doesn't matter what our opinion on that is - It's a fact, proven time and time again. Â Crazy comment when time and again the British riders MADE good starts and were overtaken by 2, sometimes 3 riders before the 3rd turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Did anyone else think Lindgren finished ahead of Harris in heat 19? Looking at the replay, Lindgren's wheel hits the red line first. It's only in the next frame they are dead level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Look at it from the front angle they show on sky. The one from the side with a red line is taken from an angle so is not showing a fair view, and is obscured by the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerblues Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The red line angle is crap because it's not dead on the line because I said at the time Lindgren had got it but when you look at it from in front and can clearly see when both riders cross the line they look to go over together. Had it not been for that front angle if I was ref I'd have called Lindgren winning but think it was actually a dead heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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