hatcham Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Yet managed to score the second lowest points tally from the team, and couldn't even beat Premier League riders. He scored less than Tomicek, for goodness sake (with all due respect to Lubos.) he scored the same as tomicek,and he had an extra ride(joke) do you think with charlie and mads waiting in the wings the danes are considering axing andersen,he was (by danish standards)a huge disappointment last night. what about sweden,jonsson is considered their top rider but he was outscored by davidsson and lindgren. time for a change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I just feel , very strongly , that Tai Woffinden is the future of British speedway... Fair enough, but Olly is our best bet at the moment (I'd out him in Thurs as well). Tai is one for the future, no doubt. I'm a recent convert to the sport (the wife to be is a big fan) Welcome to the sport and the forum. Thankfully, you'll have better nights watching speedway than last night. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't see why Olly got so much stick earlier on in the thread. He was by far our best rider, and it's good to see some people agree. He gave that meeting everything he had, and perhaps a tad too much. He did try too hard a couple of times, what an effort in heat 25, but I think that was mostly because he felt he had to give more as all around him failed miserably. I'd leave him in on Thursday. Put Ed in for Simon and take Tai along to take it all in. I've never seen Scott ride so badly around Brandon. I've never seen Simon ride so badly anywhere! Chris was crap, although he did manage our only win. His last heat was an embarrassment. Lee was crap, as he is more often than not when I see him these days. Where was his GP qualifier form? Jim Lynch did nothing wrong on the night. Played the Joker as soon as possible to try to get back into the meeting early, and gave Chris the extra ride in place of Simon. That doesn't forgive the bloody stupid attitude before the meeting. How is telling Olly and Steady they're out of the meeting for Thursday going to help?! You should be encouraging them not telling them they will fail and they're out before a wheel has been turned. Dreadful team management. There are some crazy calls for the team on Thursday. What's the point in destroying the confidence of riders that aren't ready for SWC action yet. Wright, Barker, Lawson, are you for real? Finally, the trackwas a factor whether people see it as an excuse or not. Brits are generally crap out the gate and can't ride slick tracks. It doesn't matter what our opinion on that is - It's a fact, proven time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Fair enough, but Olly is our best bet at the moment (I'd out him in Thurs as well). An unfortunate turn of phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Oooops sorry Olly. Good spot Sub (was meant to read on Thurs as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ha en bra födelsedag Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 A very poor show indeed. GB didn't even seem that bothered that they were doing crap! The Czechs were fighting..and when Rymel beat Hans the crowd loved it (as we had nothing else to cheer about!) AJ didn't perform to his usual standard last night, but it didn't matter! The rest of the Sweden team stepped up like a team should do. Team for Thursday? Any one who can go into it with fighting spirit. If the Czech' had Lucas and Topinka....we might not have even been going to Denmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcham Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 An unfortunate turn of phrase. dont let paulco read it,he cant abide the mere possibility of a speedway rider being gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcham Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The Czechs were fighting..and when Rymel beat Hans the crowd loved it (as we had nothing else to cheer about!) how many times recently has hans been winning a race,that has been stopped,and then lost the re run! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niclas Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) It is pretty interesting. Someone said the reason why GB didnt perform better yesterday was 38.85 which made EL to poorer league than before. But none of DK and Aus have a good league and still it comes tonnes of good riders from these two countries. I am not sure if it does matter, but during the 80s DK was a supernation in speedway. 20 years later all the riders who got inspired of Hans, Erik and Jan O are on the track, knowing that riders from DK are winners. In the 90s the Swedes were very good in speedway with plenty of good riders like Tony, PK, Henka, Per Jonsson, Jimmy Nielsen. 15 years later Sweden have plenty of good riders in the age of 16-27, like AJ, Lindgren, Davidsson, Antonio, Billy, THJ, Ljung etc. Even if Sweden isnt as good as the danes they know how to win. No offence towards british speedway but Scott Nicholls isnt a winner, and I am not sure if he can inspire people to perform better than their ability. When he got the chance to win GP i Cardiff he T/T. When he after a fantastic performance in Prag 2004 or 2005 ended up with 14p after 20 heats, hade the chance to get his first victory in GP but his start in the semi was miserable and the evening ended up outside the final. So I dont think the league is the problem. The problem is the abscent of winners in the team. When GB will get a rider who actually can compete with the best riders over a long time, GB will get paid in the long term. Am I totally lost? Edited July 15, 2008 by Niclas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FlyinPanther Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Young pugwash is right on this one, the Coventry fans see the global superstar as "captain fantastic", but it's only a role he's capable of filling when things are going well. That leaves a bad taste in ones mouth!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcham Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 It is pretty interesting. Someone said the reason why GB didnt perform better yesterday was 38.85 which made EL to poorer league than before. But none of DK and Aus have a good league and still it comes tonnes of good riders from these two countries. I am not sure if it does matter, but during the 80s DK was a supernation in speedway. 20 years later all the riders who got inspired of Hans, Erik and Jan O are on the track, knowing that riders from DK are winners. In the 90s the Swedes were very good in speedway with plenty of good riders like Tony, PK, Henka, Per Jonsson, Jimmy Nielsen. 15 years later Sweden have plenty of good riders in the age of 16-27, like AJ, Lindgren, Davidsson, Antonio, Billy, THJ, Ljung etc. Even if Sweden isnt as good as the danes they know how to win. No offence towards british speedway but Scott Nicholls isnt a winner, and I am not sure if he can inspire people to perform better than their ability. When he got the chance to win GP i Cardiff he T/T. When he after a fantastic performance in Prag 2004 or 2005 ended up with 14p after 20 heats, hade the chance to get his first victory in GP but his start in the semi was miserable and the evening ended up outside the final. So I dont think the league is the problem. The problem is the abscent of winners in the team. When GB will get a rider who actually can compete with the best riders over a long time, GB will get paid in the long term. Am I totally lost? no your almost there,but the point is,scott IS a winner,5 british titles prove this,however he is only a winner in his class,and his class is light years away from the worlds elite,who gollob and hancock aside are all danish,australian or swedish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegum Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Get the team together the week before, track is slick, ridiculous running order - all valid comments to be fair, but the truth is that neither riders nor equipment are good enough! Bar Cardiff - where even then Nicholls was found out again in the final - the GB riders in the GP have been light years behind the rest. I think the promotors to a degree get some unfair stick on this point. Financially it is very difficult to keep a modern day speedway team in profit. We the punters want the best racing we can for our £ and going back to the above that cannot include - at present - a substantial number of home riders. If we are all happy to watch a lesser standard of primarily GB riders - slower, but perhaps closer? - standard of racing for a few years then maybe we could be a force again. Anyone care to place a bet on that happening though? The thing is though we are already seeing a lesser standard of racing, almost every reserve in the Elite league makes a mockery of the word...at Swindon for example, we've seen a popular British rider in Andy Moore replaced by a Dutchman who couldn't hold down a Premier league last season who is then replaced by....an Austrian! The premier league doesn't appear to be in much better shape either & everyone I speak to tells me the conference league is on the verge of collapse? There is no instant solution but we need a medium term blueprint that includes things like...a National 'coach', a team 'GBR' similar to the Danes and Swedes backed by a major fund raising/sponsorhip effort that leverages the Sky contract & provides support to fast-track our youngsters, a focus on more junior tracks, all tracks above conference level running junior teams, some careful deliberation on team structures to prioritise home based riders etc, etc. Edited July 15, 2008 by mikegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 no your almost there,but the point is,scott IS a winner,5 british titles prove this,however he is only a winner in his class,and his class is light years away from the worlds elite,who gollob and hancock aside are all danish,australian or swedish. It all comes back to the entitlement culture. Every year when I've said that the global superstar doesn't deserve to be in the GPs if he doesn't qualify on merit, everyone here is up in arms and declaring that as Britain's No 1 he has a right to be in them. And that Britain has a right to have two riders in the GP circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris26 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Man, looking at that just brings it home, doesn't it? Scott scored only a third of what he scored last year, Bomber less than half, Steady only a fifth... that's woeful. erm, half of 14 is 7, Bomber scored 8.5 last evening... 8.5 is more than 7, meaning more than half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 It is pretty interesting. Someone said the reason why GB didnt perform better yesterday was 38.85 which made EL to poorer league than before. But none of DK and Aus have a good league and still it comes tonnes of good riders from these two countries. I am not sure if it does matter, but during the 80s DK was a supernation in speedway. 20 years later all the riders who got inspired of Hans, Erik and Jan O are on the track, knowing that riders from DK are winners. In the 90s the Swedes were very good in speedway with plenty of good riders like Tony, PK, Henka, Per Jonsson, Jimmy Nielsen. 15 years later Sweden have plenty of good riders in the age of 16-27, like AJ, Lindgren, Davidsson, Antonio, Billy, THJ, Ljung etc. Even if Sweden isnt as good as the danes they know how to win. No offence towards british speedway but Scott Nicholls isnt a winner, and I am not sure if he can inspire people to perform better than their ability. When he got the chance to win GP i Cardiff he T/T. When he after a fantastic performance in Prag 2004 or 2005 ended up with 14p after 20 heats, hade the chance to get his first victory in GP but his start in the semi was miserable and the evening ended up outside the final. So I dont think the league is the problem. The problem is the abscent of winners in the team. When GB will get a rider who actually can compete with the best riders over a long time, GB will get paid in the long term. Am I totally lost? Good post. I agree with hatcham though. Scotty can be a winner, and I'm not sure what's been missing in the GP's. A few chances to win one have come and gone. He screwed up the U21's all those years ago as well. Yet, he's a mutli-time British Champion, and has an average consistantly between 9 and 10 in the British League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Good post. I agree with hatcham though. Scotty can be a winner, and I'm not sure what's been missing in the GP's. A few chances to win one have come and gone. He screwed up the U21's all those years ago as well. Yet, he's a mutli-time British Champion, and has an average consistantly between 9 and 10 in the British League. He's had it all too easy. Edited July 15, 2008 by Subedei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leanne1706 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 erm, half of 14 is 7, Bomber scored 8.5 last evening... 8.5 is more than 7, meaning more than half Ok, I got one wrong, but you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegum Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 It is pretty interesting. Someone said the reason why GB didnt perform better yesterday was 38.85 which made EL to poorer league than before. But none of DK and Aus have a good league and still it comes tonnes of good riders from these two countries. I am not sure if it does matter, but during the 80s DK was a supernation in speedway. 20 years later all the riders who got inspired of Hans, Erik and Jan O are on the track, knowing that riders from DK are winners. In the 90s the Swedes were very good in speedway with plenty of good riders like Tony, PK, Henka, Per Jonsson, Jimmy Nielsen. 15 years later Sweden have plenty of good riders in the age of 16-27, like AJ, Lindgren, Davidsson, Antonio, Billy, THJ, Ljung etc. Even if Sweden isnt as good as the danes they know how to win. No offence towards british speedway but Scott Nicholls isnt a winner, and I am not sure if he can inspire people to perform better than their ability. When he got the chance to win GP i Cardiff he T/T. When he after a fantastic performance in Prag 2004 or 2005 ended up with 14p after 20 heats, hade the chance to get his first victory in GP but his start in the semi was miserable and the evening ended up outside the final. So I dont think the league is the problem. The problem is the abscent of winners in the team. When GB will get a rider who actually can compete with the best riders over a long time, GB will get paid in the long term. Am I totally lost? No I think there is definatley a place for role models to inspire the youngsters, however these countries also put in place good support and training structures, involved the retired senior riders. In addition as soon asthey showed any promise, they got the opportunity to ride elsewhere with British promoters especially falling over themselves to get them in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegum Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) He's had it all too easy. Absolutely Subedei, his number of British titles is a testament to the lack of competition; it wasn't that long ago that riders with 8 point plus league averages were finishing way down the order in British finals, now we're lucky if anyone with an 8 point plus average is actually in the meeting! Edited July 15, 2008 by mikegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris26 Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Ok, I got one wrong, but you get my drift. yes, I hear what you are saying and agree. just pointing out a slight miscalcuation with the arithmetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcham Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Ok, I got one wrong, but you get my drift. dont forget the danes were not in that meeting leanne,and their vastly superior team won 15 of the 25 races last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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