spinkox Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Its happened before, it'll happen again... Speedway riders are for the most part competitive and racers, so once their financial security was sorted they went out and gave it their all on track! It will happen again. but surely Fans pay to see riders race. Riders race because there is an incentive. The main incentive is that the person who wins earns more than the person who comes last. Presumably if one of the riders in the final had been excluded for 2 mins he would have earned £15,000 too!! If as a fan you are happy that the last race was split - then you are happy that that wasnt a race. Taking this to a logical conclusion you could split all the prize money over the whole meeting and pay the person who scores 0 the same as the person who scores 15 - What sort of racing would you have seen?? As for the tax situation - If Nicki gets the cheque for 60 thousand - gives away 45 - he will still have to pay around 15 in tax - result - 0. In fact he could even have to pay more than 15 thousand in tax which would mean he would be out of pocket!! The only way he could avoid this is if the Poole management paid out 1 cheque to each of the 4 riders for 15 thousand. ps Im no accountant . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Having thought about this financial split up of the winnings, I have come to the conclusion that it shouldn't have happened. Certainly not in public. Whilst the intentions were good, the overall effect of doing this is to devalue the final for the fans. The meeting was hard battled with riders in contention in the final round of races giving their all to make sure they had a chance of winning. The four finalists were the correct riders to be there on merit. But they obviously got togetehr quiickly and did the deal. Whilst the final was a proper race and competitive, whet carving the oney up before hand did, was take away the disappointment of losing, as well as the total elation of the win. If I had made the final and missed out on winning, I would feel pretty sick. That feeling would not be there because I know I have £15,000 in my pocket. Perhaps rather than carve it up into £15,000 each, they could have got together and said, £30,000 to the winner, 15 for second, 10 for third and 5 for 4th. All would have made a good earner, and there would be something to really race for. Trouble is they only had a minute or so to talk to each other. Did it devalue the meeting? Not at the time, but now the fact that the riders carved up the winnings leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If they wanted to do this, they should have stayed very quite and kept it to a gentlemans agreement between themselves. Are Poole guilty of anything? Not at all. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but there was no way this situation could have been covered, other than to offer prize money for all finalists. But then Poole would have needed a £100,000 jackpot. Those are my thoughts on it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colincooke Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 All seems pretty accurate to me Steve.The riders shouldn't have made this public, particularly Nicki stating so on his website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Cowboy Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Having thought about this financial split up of the winnings, I have come to the conclusion that it shouldn't have happened. Certainly not in public. Whilst the intentions were good, the overall effect of doing this is to devalue the final for the fans. The meeting was hard battled with riders in contention in the final round of races giving their all to make sure they had a chance of winning. The four finalists were the correct riders to be there on merit. But they obviously got togetehr quiickly and did the deal. Whilst the final was a proper race and competitive, whet carving the oney up before hand did, was take away the disappointment of losing, as well as the total elation of the win. If I had made the final and missed out on winning, I would feel pretty sick. That feeling would not be there because I know I have £15,000 in my pocket. Perhaps rather than carve it up into £15,000 each, they could have got together and said, £30,000 to the winner, 15 for second, 10 for third and 5 for 4th. All would have made a good earner, and there would be something to really race for. Trouble is they only had a minute or so to talk to each other. Did it devalue the meeting? Not at the time, but now the fact that the riders carved up the winnings leaves a bad taste in the mouth. If they wanted to do this, they should have stayed very quite and kept it to a gentlemans agreement between themselves. Are Poole guilty of anything? Not at all. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but there was no way this situation could have been covered, other than to offer prize money for all finalists. But then Poole would have needed a £100,000 jackpot. Those are my thoughts on it anyway. Steve, i take my hat off to you. That's the most honest, sensible and realistic post you've ever written and i totally agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I cannot believe some of the idiocy of some of the fans who come on the forum. For those who don't understand english. Nicki Ps website 'THE RIDERS decided to split the money AND it has nothing to do with the PROMOTION, THE BSPA, THE SPONSORS or MATTS BANK MANAGER. It's Nicki's money and he can buy 5 yachts, send it to Rwanda or gamble it on camel racing for all I care but he obviously hasn't thought about the consequences of posting this on his website, even though it sounds like a friendly gesture all round it makes this meeting look a sham. But who cares....whats done is done. No good complaining about people, you can't change his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
190557 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 All seems pretty accurate to me Steve.The riders shouldn't have made this public, particularly Nicki stating so on his website. Are you saying it's alright to totally devalue the meeting and cheat the public just as long as it's not made public? Do you think the riders should now be punished for bringing the sport into disrepute and making a mockery of the meeting, which I paid good money to watch, or do you think it should be swept under the carpet and forgotten about? Do you think it's time Matt Ford made a statement on the subject? He may have been no party to the deception but he took my money and that of 3000+ others and hasn't even had the decency to apologise for what took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) For those who don't understand english. Nicki Ps website 'THE RIDERS decided to split the money AND it has nothing to do with the PROMOTION, THE BSPA, THE SPONSORS or MATTS BANK MANAGER. But would Nicki accept a cheque for £60000, then give out cheques for £15000 to each of the other three finalists knowing he would have the tax to pay on the whole £60000 out of his £15000 cut? Or can someone out there clarify how the tax situation would work in this case. It's because of the tax implications that I can't help getting the feeling that someone other than the riders knew about the situation. However, it is just a feeling and I stand to be corrected. Edited March 12, 2008 by Barney Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Cowboy Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 but he obviously hasn't thought about the consequences of posting this on his website, even though it sounds like a friendly gesture all round it makes this meeting look a sham. Maybe he has ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Rocket Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 It will happen again. but surely Fans pay to see riders race. Riders race because there is an incentive. The main incentive is that the person who wins earns more than the person who comes last. Presumably if one of the riders in the final had been excluded for 2 mins he would have earned £15,000 too!! If as a fan you are happy that the last race was split - then you are happy that that wasnt a race. Taking this to a logical conclusion you could split all the prize money over the whole meeting and pay the person who scores 0 the same as the person who scores 15 - What sort of racing would you have seen?? As for the tax situation - If Nicki gets the cheque for 60 thousand - gives away 45 - he will still have to pay around 15 in tax - result - 0. In fact he could even have to pay more than 15 thousand in tax which would mean he would be out of pocket!! The only way he could avoid this is if the Poole management paid out 1 cheque to each of the 4 riders for 15 thousand. ps Im no accountant . . . Very interesting point. Nicki Pedersen would pay tax at the tax rate of the country he resides in, which maybe higher or lower than the UK. I suppose he may be able to convince the tax authorities that he split his prize money with the three other riders and they may just tax him on the £15k. The easiest way would be/have been to ask the person issuing the cheque (Matt Ford?) to dish out 4 £15k cheques, which would then draw that person into the deception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jac Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I've always thought that the 60,000 should have been split 30, 15, 10 ,5 to give them all the incentive to race. If you're in fourth you'd race to get that third place and then second to get more money, if you're in third you'd race to get that second spot to get more money etc etc. Everyone racing. As it was if the the rider in first place had pulled away comfortably the other three were likely to think what the hell, what's the point in racing, risking injury, when I'm going to end up with zilch anyway. I'm not that convinced either that after agreeing to split the money we saw a true race. And in my opinion I don't think Poole promotion had any idea what was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 All we know at the moment is what appeared on Nicki Pedersen's website. If true, then the point is that it must at the very least cast doubt on whether the final was a genuine race, with everyone trying their best to win, or, would an agreement to share equally the £60,000 have the effect that one or more of the competitors did not try as hard as they would have done if it was winner takes all. In my view, again if true, it must cast that doubt. The consequence is not only to devalue that race but also to adversely affect the credibility of the sport in general and to bring it into disrepute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 About the best post i have read from Steve Shovlar.I don't agree 100% with it,but it is nice to see an honest post without the crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazaar3 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 But would Nicki accept a cheque for £60000, then give out cheques for £15000 to each of the other three finalists knowing he would have the tax to pay on the whole £60000 out of his £15000 cut? Or can someone out there clarify how the tax situation would work in this case. It's because of the tax implications that I can't help getting the feeling that someone other than the riders knew about the situation. However, it is just a feeling and I stand to be corrected. What has this got to do with Nicki doing whatever he wishes to do with his money. Are you sure your not going on about the cmoplications of his P45 at Eastbourne.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Bore off Brum. Anyway thought you only dealt in facts Steve? What facts do you know about the Pedersen situation Bum? If you read the post then you will know what i was told. Factually you should read things properly before resorting to BUM jokes. Be bored or not, ive explained things fully. Here you go then, I'll make it quite simple for you, as you've now changed from the original point to arguing about opinions and whether or not Nicki wanted to ride here. I asked Nicki the very same question during the close season, and his answer was: And as for loyalty, have a look at this: http://www.speedwayworld.tv/en/polishleague/a8214 Can we put this to bed now? That must be categoric enough for you, unless you want me to put a date on when I asked the question (which I can do.) Here YOU go again. I'm quite aware what the original point was. Wether Nicki wanted to ride here or not. And you've clearly pointed out that he couldn't be fitted in at Eastbourne. No one team can guarantee a team place. You can use the same argument for any of the top riders. I KNOW Nicki wanted to be back WITH EASTBOURNE - they choose not to use him and nobody else wanted to use him for WHATEVER reason that is. So YES the points limit forced him out. BUT so did the fact that he only wanted to ride for Eastbourne and not for the teams that could fit him in (no facts on that). I'm not questioning Nicki`s loyalty to British Speedway - just to his parent club!!!! I'm giving you all the facts but you choose to just look at it through your rose tinted glasses! I'm quite happy to put this to bed. So long as you know its NOT just as simple as you keep stating it is. This is SPEEDWAY - nothing is as simple as just that!!!!!!!!! waits for Stevebrum to say that is only Nicki's opinion safrican american i like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 What has this got to do with Nicki doing whatever he wishes to do with his money. Are you sure your not going on about the cmoplications of his P45 at Eastbourne.... Since the decision to split the money was made BEFORE the final Nicki only ever had £15000 (same as the other finalists) to do with as he wished. And that remained the same regardless of where he finished in that final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
190557 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 What has this got to do with Nicki doing whatever he wishes to do with his money. Are you sure your not going on about the cmoplications of his P45 at Eastbourne.... Try and keep up with the discussion. The whole point of the argument is that it was not Pedersens money when the dirty deed was done. The agreement to share the money was made before the race was run not after. At that point Pedersen did not have any money to share out. After the race has been run he can do whatever he wants with his money but at the point of the deception he didn't have any money to give away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEITH M Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) Try and keep up with the discussion. The whole point of the argument is that it was not Pedersens money when the dirty deed was done. The agreement to share the money was made before the race was run not after. At that point Pedersen did not have any money to share out. After the race has been run he can do whatever he wants with his money but at the point of the deception he didn't have any money to give away. I haven't got the money yet but I have already made a deal if I win the lottery I am going to share some of my winnings with family and friends and as they are in the same lottery draw they have also made the same deal with me Edited March 12, 2008 by KEITH M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I haven't got the money yet but I have already made a deal if I win the lottery I am going to share some of my winnings with family and friends There's more chance of Matt Ford being given Honourary Membership to the Coventry Supporters club than winning the lottery so you're safe there I think!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Cowboy Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I can't wait to see what Speedway Star makes of this tomorrow - investigative journalism or brushed under the carpet ?, you decide !. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEITH M Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I can't wait to see what Speedway Star makes of this tomorrow - investigative journalism or brushed under the carpet ?, you decide !. If I was a betting man my money would be on your 2nd choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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