World Final V Grand Prix

[RPNY]

They didnt say they werent going back to Stockholm because of track prperation, they ADMITTED that that it just didnt work out - Which I thought was a shame as I went to the 2004 GP there and it was fantastic. JP stated in the Media that he couldnt understand why Stockholm didnt warm to the GP's. He didnt Bull5h1t as you say.. They also admitted the same with Hamar.

BSI never also never claimed that the current format was "wonderful innovation" on their part.. Again they just said it was fairer & every rider would be chasing every point. Is it wrong to talk up your product?

I believe that if you were to have a gripe a BSI, then do it about some of the riders they have seeded over the years. Some have been clearly with marketing in mind and not who are very best. That said other than that, I cant see how they have done much wrong.

[Grachan]

I know it's a matter of opinion, but in all honesty I don't see how ANYONE who ever attended any of the titanic World Finals across Europe (and indeed in the US) when the title was decided that way could possibly think that the GPs even come close...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the 1982 World Final in the USA wasn't well attended. People were moved around the stadium to be in position for the TV camera's according to my parents, who went.

 

Then there's the 1987(?) Amsterdam final, for which the attendence was embarrasingly bad. I know. I was one of the few there.

 

Give me a choice between the 1981 world final and the GPs I'd take the World Final anytime.

 

Give me a choice between Amsterdam World Final and I'd take the GP every time.

 

I think that as soon as the World Final moved away from the Sweden, Britain, Poland roster then its days were numberd to be honest.

[stevehone]

They've taken the series to fantastic stadiums, also, they staged a GP in Australia which was a big gamble.. But they did it trying to push the sport forward.. And they have listened to fans and riders. They have changed the race format, points soring all to try and make it more exciting/fairer, they really can't be accused of just resting on their laurels.. Even little things like the yellow race jacket for the series leader, it's a nice touch and shows they are consatntly thinking...

Also because of the series, places like Eskilstuna have had permanent stadium improvemnets off of the back of staging GP rounds..Ive also read that The TV audience in the UK has doubled for SGP's since 2000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

they've also ripped the heart out of British speedway.

 

riders now are all about focusing on the GP's, sod the EL.

and for most clubs, a lot of their income used to be made up from lucrative individual meetings ... no-one has those now as riders don't want/have time to compete in them.

even the ELRC has gone downhill since the GP started, a meeting that used to mean something ... and the British Final, no longer a means to an end, it's just another meeting that means a couple of riders don't get a weekend off.

 

all the big individual meetings from my day, where are they?

The Brandonapolis, The Laurels, Spring Classic, Olympique, Pride of the East, 16 Lapper, Blue Ribband, etc etc ... the list will go on and on, but they were all meetings attended by the top riders that brought in big crowds.

ok, so one or two will still run, but look at the lineups, they're not the sort we used to get, and the reason ... riders aren't interested.

[Chris Brown]

one off finals were all about excitement there on the day and knowing the winner at the end of it, and for me that's what i prefer.

 

you have the majority of GP's where you'd go away feeling like it was all a bit of an anti-climax as in a way nobody has won anything other than that meeting.

 

by saying that if it was at Bydgoszcz you might as well give it to Gollob, well who is to say he would make it through the qualifiers?

that was the beauty of the one-offs ... we had qualifiers that had different riders, and every meeting meant something, and all riders had something to fight for.

 

every now and again we had riders that could have a great season in the league and ride through to a world final, that's not possible now as it's more or less an invitation series and would take a long time to find your way to getting an invite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Spot on Steve. Lots of people make lots of money out of the GP circus and it won't change but for me a one off was infinitely better.

 

The GP's are also struggling with keeping it going IMO. The changes to the points system have made little difference and to be honest we've known for the past couple of years who will be World Champion half way through the season.

[The Know]

they've also ripped the heart out of British speedway.

 

riders now are all about focusing on the GP's, sod the EL.

and for most clubs, a lot of their income used to be made up from lucrative individual meetings ... no-one has those now as riders don't want/have time to compete in them.

even the ELRC has gone downhill since the GP started, a meeting that used to mean something ... and the British Final, no longer a means to an end, it's just another meeting that means a couple of riders don't get a weekend off.

 

all the big individual meetings from my day, where are they?

The Brandonapolis, The Laurels, Spring Classic, Olympique, Pride of the East, 16 Lapper, Blue Ribband, etc etc ... the list will go on and on, but they were all meetings attended by the top riders that brought in big crowds.

ok, so one or two will still run, but look at the lineups, they're not the sort we used to get, and the reason ... riders aren't interested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What utter rubbish, British speedway is the problem. Dont blame the bsi for the state its in but look to the bspa, promoters, the tracks and so on.

[stevehone]

What utter rubbish, British speedway is the problem. Dont blame the bsi for the state its in but look to the bspa, promoters, the tracks and so on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

really?

 

must all be in my mind ... i'll have to look out for the Brandonapolis date, i enjoy that one.

[The Know]

really?

 

must all be in my mind ... i'll have to look out for the Brandonapolis date, i enjoy that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should ask the coventry promoter where its gone, but no blame the bsi

[The Know]

I think you badly under-estimate how many people interested or involved with Speedway see a GP 'Rround' as a GROSSLY inferior product to a proper World Championship Final...

I am very confident that IF a proper World Final was being staged at the new Wembley it would indeed sell out: it would be, as the World Final always was, a hugely exciting event.

 

A British GP round always held in June and so, early in the series is totally without immediacy and relevance to the overall world championship outcome; and therefore has to rely on being a stand-alone event - which only has limited appeal.

 

I know it's a matter of opinion, but in all honesty I don't see how ANYONE who ever attended any of the titanic World Finals across Europe (and indeed in the US) when the title was decided that way could possibly think that the GPs even come close...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh dear. Where are these people ? In a rest home now or dead i expect with their copy of the speedway mail. Just off to crank start me car.

[stevehone]

there used to be so many tracks out there that had a traditional race night of Saturday ... that was when they were more likely to get a better crowd, even though other tracks raced same night, and possibly the best night for getting floating fans that would visit somewhere as a particular meeting looked attractive ... makes you wonder why it's not the case now.

you just have to look at Saturday night tracks and how they are affected by GP's by missing a regular income.

the injured riders that ride in the GP's but don't ride in the EL is another problem.

ok, you used to get riders ride in a qualifier or something when injured, but maybe my mind is playing tricks but i'm sure a GP rider now seems to be injured a lot more than they would normally.

 

 

 

Maybe you should ask the coventry promoter where its gone, but no blame the bsi 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

but why should the promoter risk organising these type of events when the top riders that used to make up the bulk of the field aren't interested any more?

Edited September 27, 2007 by stevehone

[RPNY]

Does make me laugh that BSI are still being blamed for problems in the Elite league.. The Swedish & Polish promoters for years had to deal with the fact they had 1 NIGHT to hold their speedway meetings as the British league held all the cards & could stage meetings on any night they wanted.. Did they moan? No they realised what they were working with & got on with it.

If the Elite league promoters got together & tried to help each other, then a lot of the problems would be resolved.. But I guess some will always blame the GP's for our leagues shortcommings.

As for indivdual meetings in Britain being less than days gone by, make them finacially worth it like they were back then & you may see them reappearing.. Also dont completely (ock it up like the EL riders championship this year..

[Kevin Meynell]

No they realised what they were working with & got on with it.

 

The choice of race day in Polish and Swedish leagues is a happy coincidence, and was settled upon years ago (long before the SGP was even thought of). Sport in Catholic countries is traditionally staged on a Sunday, which explains the choice of raceday in Poland. In the case of Sweden, midweek sport is more practical because of the very long daylight hours during the summer in northerly latitudes, and Tuesdays (for the Swedish Elite League) were settled upon because that was the one day when most Swedish riders didn't compete in the British leagues.

 

It was probably luck that Poland raced on the one day when no BL track rode, and perhaps is one of the contributory factors towards it's success after the fall of the Iron Curtain. It was able to recruit the best riders precisely because they didn't have any commitments on its traditional race day, whereas had it traditionally run on (say) a Saturday, it might well have been a different story.

 

As it happens, the SGP will start to cause problems with Polish leagues if it expands much further. The reserve day is scheduled for Sundays, and a Saturday GP rainoff could potentially devastate a round of the Polish League.

 

No they realised what they were working with & got on with it.

 

And again I ask, where do those riders who compete in the BEL earn most of their money? The SGP or the BEL?

Edited September 27, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[The Know]

The choice of race day in Polish and Swedish leagues is a happy coincidence, and was settled upon years ago (long before the SGP was even thought of). Sport in Catholic countries is traditionally staged on a Sunday, which explains the choice of raceday in Poland. In the case of Sweden, midweek sport is more practical because of the very long daylight hours during the summer in northerly latitudes, and Tuesdays (for the Swedish Elite League) were settled upon because that was the one day when most Swedish riders didn't compete in the British leagues.

 

It was probably luck that Poland raced on the one day when no BL track rode, and perhaps is one of the contributory factors towards it's success after the fall of the Iron Curtain. It was able to recruit the best riders precisely because they didn't have any commitments on its traditional race day, whereas had it traditionally run on (say) a Saturday, it might well have been a different story.

 

As it happens, the SGP will start to cause problems with Polish leagues if it expands much further. The reserve day is scheduled for Sundays, and a Saturday GP rainoff could potentially devastate a round of the Polish League.

And again I ask, where do those riders who compete in the BEL earn most of their money? The SGP or the BEL?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not the bel, top riders do not need the money from england. The income from poland, sweden sgp and the sponsorship they recieve is more than enough. All the extra costs of rideing in england soon eat up there points money. I am not interested in having a rider in the bel just europe and sgp.

[RPNY]

and Tuesdays (for the Swedish Elite League) were settled upon because that was the one day when most Swedish riders didn't compete in the British leagues.

 

That was a point I was making - and it's the main reason why Poland race on Sundays too.

We have every other day of the week to choose from, yet we still complain that we miss 10/11 Saturdays a seaon because of GP's..

With regard to where the riders earn most of their money, well it's actually Poland.. but yes you are correct it's more in the BEL then it is in the GP's. But the top boys dont ride in the BEL for the money... & it's not BSI's fault that the GP riders sacrafice some BEL meetings because the world championship means more too them? I can tell you that there were plenty of riders who missed meetings when the World final was approaching..

Also not sure about you Sport on Sundays tradition in Catholic

countries.. I'm gonna have to check on that

[speedyguy]

and Tuesdays (for the Swedish Elite League) were settled upon because that was the one day when most Swedish riders didn't compete in the British leagues.

 

That was a point I was making - and it's the main reason why Poland race on Sundays too.

We have every other day of the week to choose from, yet we still complain that we miss 10/11 Saturdays a seaon because of GP's..

With regard to where the riders earn most of their money, well it's actually Poland.. but yes you are correct it's more in the BEL then it is in the GP's. But the top boys dont ride in the BEL for the money... & it's not BSI's fault that the GP riders sacrafice some BEL meetings because the world championship means more too them? I can tell you that there were plenty of riders who missed meetings when the World final was approaching..

Also not sure about you Sport on Sundays tradition in Catholic

countries.. I'm gonna have to check on that 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sport on Sunday in Catholic parts of Europe: in Spain, a major Catholic country, it's bull fights and football. Same in Portugal (yes they have some bull fights as well as football) and football in Italy. Poland is the only other major Catholic country in Europe - and guess that's why Sunday is speedway day there.

[iris123]

Sport on Sunday in Catholic parts of Europe: in Spain, a major Catholic country, it's bull fights and football. Same in Portugal (yes they have some bull fights as well as football) and football in Italy.  Poland is the only other major Catholic country in Europe - and guess that's why Sunday is  speedway day there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your forgetting Ireland surely

[iris123]

It was probably luck that Poland raced on the one day when no BL track rode, and perhaps is one of the contributory factors towards it's success after the fall of the Iron Curtain. It was able to recruit the best riders precisely because they didn't have any commitments on its traditional race day, whereas had it traditionally run on (say) a Saturday, it might well have been a different story.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The rise in the Polish league coincided with the demise of the Longtrack scene.I think that is where all the riders moved from.Look back and see all the top riders that used to ride in Germany at the weekend.Even Crump was fairly regular on the Longtrack scene at one stage.Now there are practically no top speedway riders that race Longtrack.Kylmäkorpi and that is it

[Kevin Meynell]

yet we still complain that we miss 10/11 Saturdays a seaon because of GP's.

 

Because that is the prime day for running speedway in Britain.

 

But the top boys dont ride in the BEL for the money...

 

So they do it for love, do they?

 

it's not BSI's fault that the GP riders sacrafice some BEL meetings because the world championship means more too them?

 

No doubt it does, because at the moment they can have their cake and eat it. I wonder though, how many would prioritise the world championship if they were told they have to choose between it or league racing?

Edited September 27, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[RPNY]

Because that is the prime day for running speedway in Britain

 

Well we need to adapt with the times dont we..

 

So they do it for love, do they?

 

A friend of mine who is Ex GP rider told me earlier this season that Crumpy, Nikki they dont ride in BEL for the money, they do it to be the best. Look at AJ going back to Arena. He CERTAINLY doesnt need the money. Dont get me wrong they dont loose money doing it, but the money they make in BEL is peanuts in comparison to Poland & even Sweden.

 

 

I wonder how many would prioritise the world championship though if they were told they have to choose between it or league racing.

 

T Rik quit BEL basically because of GP commitments, so did Hancock, Billy did in days gone by, so did PK in the past.... Many have done it.. We have to face up to the fact that speedway isnt all about BEL Racing anymore.

[Kevin Meynell]

Well we need to adapt with the times dont we..

 

And again I ask, in what way would British speedway giving-up its prime race nights for the benefit of the SGP, be beneficial to the sport? It gets nothing from the SGP in return, so why should it run on days that are inconvenient for its fans?

 

T Rik quit BEL basically because of GP commitments, so did Hancock, Billy did in days gone by, so did PK in the past.... Many have done it.. We have to face up to the fact that speedway isnt all about BEL Racing anymore.

 

I'm talking about if all major national leagues (British, Polish, Swedish) gave them the ultimatum, because none of them make any money out of the SGP.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[RPNY]

But why would they do that?