World Final V Grand Prix

[sancho]

But I still would prefer to see Anders Michanek score a blistering 15 point max

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or Egon Muller perhaps

[Mr. Clemens]

But I still would prefer to see Anders Michanek score a blistering 15 point max

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or Egon Muller perhaps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

And why not - as long as it's blistering - I don't mind who scores it

[sancho]

Or Egon Muller perhaps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And why not - as long as it's blistering - I don't mind who scores it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Define blistering

[Mr. Clemens]

And why not - as long as it's blistering - I don't mind who scores it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Define blistering

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

blistering = with finesse class dash style and spirit

 

 

And I can define the meaning of life if you want too

Edited September 26, 2007 by Mr. Clemens

[RPNY]

The debate on whether or not a one off final or GP series is the best way to decide a world Championship will be on going as it's all down to opinions...

However I do struggle to understand why people on here are so anti BSI.. It's not like they bought the rights to the series and just simply carried on with the old system of 6 GP's in the usual venues...

They've taken the series to fantastic stadiums, also, they staged a GP in Australia which was a big gamble.. But they did it trying to push the sport forward.. And they have listened to fans and riders. They have changed the race format, points soring all to try and make it more exciting/fairer, they really can't be accused of just resting on their laurels.. Even little things like the yellow race jacket for the series leader, it's a nice touch and shows they are consatntly thinking...

Also because of the series, places like Eskilstuna have had permanent stadium improvemnets off of the back of staging GP rounds..Ive also read that The TV audience in the UK has doubled for SGP's since 2000.

With regard to sponsorship, I think it's unfair to only mention Meridian Lifts & not mention Party Poker, Fiat, Dansk Metal etc They are fairly sizeable companies...

[Kevin Meynell]

They've taken the series to fantastic stadiums

 

Errr.. like Malilla, Daugvapils and Lonigo?

 

they staged a GP in Australia which was a big gamble.

 

Not for BSI it wasn't. It was the local promoter that bankrupted himself.

 

They have changed the race format, points soring all to try and make it more exciting/fairer

 

They changed the race format to make it cheaper to stage the GPs. 24 riders cost too much, and the riders hadn't had a pay rise since the SGP started.

 

Also because of the series, places like Eskilstuna have had permanent stadium improvemnets off of the back of staging GP rounds.

 

The new Eskilstuna stadium was funded by the sale of the old stadium in the town centre, and was planned to be a purpose-built facility years before BSI came along.

 

Meridian Lifts & not mention Party Poker, Fiat, Dansk Metal etc They are fairly sizeable companies...

 

Except it undoubtedly won't be Fiat proper. It'll be a local dealership I'd imagine. Dansk Metal is a workers' union, so hardly likely to be a major sponsor (I'd be pretty annoyed if I found-out my subscriptions were being used to subsidise a multi-millionaire), and it's difficult to tell the size of online companies. They could be pretty small in reality.

 

I'm not suggesting that BSI haven't done anything good with the SGP, but you can spin their supposed achievements either way.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[Trees]

They've taken the series to fantastic stadiums, also, they staged a GP in Australia which was a big gamble

LOL, did you not read about what happened in Aus?

[The Know]

Errr.. like Malilla, Daugvapils and Lonigo?

Not for BSI it wasn't. It was the local promoter that bankrupted himself.

They changed the race format to make it cheaper to stage the GPs. 24 riders cost too much, and the riders hadn't had a pay rise since the SGP started.

The new Eskilstuna stadium was funded by the sale of the old stadium in the town centre, and was planned to be a purpose-built facility years before BSI came along.

Except it undoubtedly won't be Fiat proper. It'll be a local dealership I'd imagine. Dansk Metal is a workers' union, and it's difficult to tell the size of online companies. They could be pretty small in reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong again, it was fiat uk/ europe who backed the series and they did not renew their 5 yr contract as gone moto-gp. Everybody knocks all the sponsors but some sponsors are better than none.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

The proper World Final used to sell-out Wembley.. Does anyone seriously think that the GP nonsense could ever do that..?!

 

Those who harp on about Sczakiel & Muller are admitting by default that those are - arguably- the only two dodgy WF results in a long history of one-off Finals.

 

The GP will ALWAYS, though, be remembered for the year when the World Championship was won (sic) by a rider who never actually won a meeting.

 

THAT could never have happened under the proper WC system...

 

I note that a few posters are saying that the GP system will go on for ever..: hmm, only as long as there's a sport to have a World Championship of.. IMHO, the GP system is the BIGGEST single liklely contribution to the end of international Speedway...

[Grachan]

The proper World Final used to sell-out Wembley..  Does anyone seriously think that the GP nonsense could ever do that..?!

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If the GP had been held in 1975 then, yes, it would have sold out Wembley. If the World final was held at Wembley today then, no, it would not sell out.

 

That's down to the popularity of speedway at the time, not the method used to decide the championship.

 

 

The GP will ALWAYS, though, be remembered for the year when the World Championship was won (sic) by a rider who never actually won a meeting.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And the World Final will ALWAYS be remembered for the year when the World champion failed to win another meeting after winning it.*

 

It's swings and roundabouts. Both systems have provided genuine "best in the world" champions regularly, and both have produced winners considered to be something of a fluke.

 

(* - well, he might have done. I made that up.)

Edited September 27, 2007 by Grachan

[Kevin Meynell]

Everybody knocks all the sponsors but some sponsors are better than none.

 

I actually don't disagree with you, and it is indeed easy to knock, but let's not pretend that any of the major SGP sponsors are bluechip companies. Whilst companies are only in it because they happen like going to speedway, rather than because speedway helps them sell their products, I can't really see how the sport is really going to hit the big time.

 

If I watch something that is sponsored by (say) a major brand of beer, it might well remind me that I fancy a pint of that. However, I don't watch the SGP and think I must have my office lift fixed.

[RPNY]

I said it was a gamble to take it Aus.. At no point did I say it was a success, I was just saying they were trying something new.. If you think that BSI didnt incurr any costs taking the GP there, then you are mistaken...

 

Errr.. like Malilla, Daugvapils and Lonigo?

 

No I meant Cardiff, Copenhagen & Vetlins arena, Ullevi next year & other stadiums like Hamar/Stockholm in the past.. And before I get the Werent they a great success replies, I am just saying they were trying to take the GP's to quality stadiums.

 

They changed the race format to make it cheaper to stage the GPs. 24 riders cost too much

 

Oh really thats the sole reason it changed is it? It just so happens that it took them 5 seasons to work it out tho and change it back to 16 riders.

 

The new Eskilstuna stadium was funded by the sale of the old stadium in the town centre, and was planned to be a purpose-built facility years before BSI came along.

 

That maybe the reason why the stadium is where it is, but IMPROVEMENTS have been made because of the GP's being there. That's a fact.

 

 

Except it undoubtedly won't be Fiat proper. It'll be a local dealership I'd imagine.

 

Well that's reall concrete isn't it.. It'd be a local dealership YOU IMAGINE. Even though it was Fiat Vans that was show all the stadium, it was UNDOUBTEDLY a local dealership.. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to be the title sponsor of an event like cardiff?

 

It is difficult to tell the size of online companies. They could be pretty small in reality.

 

Have you seen how many sporting events Party Poker are involved with at the moment? They are not a small company.. But again you've had a guess that they MIGHT be.

[The Know]

I actually don't disagree with you, and it is indeed easy to knock, but let's not pretend that any of the major SGP sponsors are bluechip companies. Whilst companies are only in it because they happen like going to speedway, rather than because speedway helps them sell their products, I can't really see how the sport is really going to hit the big time.

 

If I watch something that is sponsored by (say) a major brand of beer, it might well remind me that I fancy a pint of that. However, I don't watch the SGP and think I must have my office lift fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seem to think the bigger the company the more they spend. This is not the case and they dont hang around for very long.

[The Know]

I said it was a gamble to take it Aus.. At no point did I say it was a success, I was just saying they were trying something new.. If you think that BSI didnt incurr any costs taking the GP there, then you are mistaken...

 

Errr.. like Malilla, Daugvapils and Lonigo?

 

No I meant Cardiff, Copenhagen & Vetlins arena, Ullevi next year & other stadiums like Hamar/Stockholm in the past.. And before I get the Werent they a great success replies, I am just saying they were trying to take the GP's to quality stadiums.

 

They changed the race format to make it cheaper to stage the GPs. 24 riders cost too much

 

Oh really thats the sole reason it changed is it? It just so happens that it took them 5 seasons to work it out tho and change it back to 16 riders.

 

The new Eskilstuna stadium was funded by the sale of the old stadium in the town centre, and was planned to be a purpose-built facility years before BSI came along.

 

That maybe the reason why the stadium is where it is, but IMPROVEMENTS have been made because of the GP's being there. That's a fact.

Except it undoubtedly won't be Fiat proper. It'll be a local dealership I'd imagine.

 

Well that's reall concrete isn't it.. It'd be a local dealership YOU IMAGINE. Even though it was Fiat Vans that was show all the stadium, it was UNDOUBTEDLY a local dealership.. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to be the title sponsor of an event like cardiff?

 

It is difficult to tell the size of online companies. They could be pretty small in reality.

 

Have you seen how many sporting events Party Poker are involved with at the moment? They are not a small company.. But again you've had a guess that they MIGHT be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct, party poker have in excess of 4 millon customers and if each one only spends 10 pounds thats a lot of money. Also they are a spin off of 888. com another very small company.

[Kevin Meynell]

Oh really thats the sole reason it changed is it?

 

I'd say that was the main reason, although there might be an argument that television and sponsors didn't like the possibility of their favourite riders going-out of a GP after just two rides.

 

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to be the title sponsor of an event like cardiff?

 

A while back, BSI were taking legal action to recover money owed by one of the sponsors of the Polish GP, which was indicated as being about GBP 91K.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[The Know]

I'd say that was the main reason, although there might be an argument that television and sponsors didn't like the possibility of their favourite riders going-out of a GP after just two rides.

A while back, BSI were taking legal action to recover money owed by one of the sponsors of the Polish GP, which was indicated as being about GBP 91K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Title sponsor british g.p 08, 100 grand. do you fancy doing it ?

[RPNY]

I'd say that was the main reason, although there might be an argument that television and sponsors didn't like the possibility of their favourite riders going-out of a GP after just two rides.

 

Again my friend you are saying what you think the situation MIGHT HAVE BEEN. The fact that the large majority of the riders stated they didnt like the system & BSI were actually quoted as saying that is why they were changing it means nothing to you.

 

 

A while back, BSI were taking legal action to recover money owed by one of the sponsors of the Polish GP, which was indicated as being about GBP 91K.

 

Not exactly chicken feed is it

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

If the GP had been held in 1975 then, yes, it would have sold out Wembley. If the World final was held at Wembley today then, no, it would not sell out.

 

That's down to the popularity of speedway at the time, not the method used to decide the championship.

 

I think you badly under-estimate how many people interested or involved with Speedway see a GP 'Rround' as a GROSSLY inferior product to a proper World Championship Final...

I am very confident that IF a proper World Final was being staged at the new Wembley it would indeed sell out: it would be, as the World Final always was, a hugely exciting event.

 

A British GP round always held in June and so, early in the series is totally without immediacy and relevance to the overall world championship outcome; and therefore has to rely on being a stand-alone event - which only has limited appeal.

 

I know it's a matter of opinion, but in all honesty I don't see how ANYONE who ever attended any of the titanic World Finals across Europe (and indeed in the US) when the title was decided that way could possibly think that the GPs even come close...

[Kevin Meynell]

The fact that the large majority of the riders stated they didnt like the system & BSI were actually quoted as saying that is why they were changing it means nothing to you.

 

And of course you believe everything they tell you, just like you believe everything our government tells you? They also said they'd dropped big venues (such as Ullevi and Stockholm) because of the problems of preparing an artificial track in bad weather (what excuse did they have for the covered Hamar stadium then? ), but it's far more likely those venues just weren't paying. Of course they're going to put a positive spin on things, but that doesn't mean their explanations aren't largely b***ocks.

 

I seem to recall the riders didn't especially want the knockout format when it was introduced, but that didn't stop it being used for several years because BSI apparently considered it more exciting at the time. Why was there suddenly a reversion to a format that had previously been denounced as old-fashioned and boring, but just conveniently allowed the participating riders to get a pay rise for the first time in years, without actually having to increase the overall amount of prize money being paid-out?

 

Now I happen to prefer the current format, and I'd have done exactly the same as BSI if I were in their shoes, but neither would I have been shameless enough to have pretended it was some wonderful innovation either.

[Kevin Meynell]

I am very confident that IF a proper World Final was being staged at the new Wembley it would indeed sell out: it would be, as the World Final always was, a hugely exciting event.

 

The main problem is that the World Final was run into the ground during the latter years, thus justifying the case that GPs were needed. If you hold a major event in the middle of nowhere, it stands to reason that you're going to limit your audience. However, the last World Final held in a big stadium was Munich in 1989, and even that got 50,000 fans in an era of declining speedway attendances. I think the 1991 and 1992 World Finals held at Ullevi and Wroclaw (medium-sized stadiums) respectively got around 25,000 fans each, but then we had Pocking and Vojens which were 10,000 capacity venues in out-of-the-way places. Had the Millenium Stadium been around in the 1990s, then perhaps a World Final there might have got 40,000 fans as well.