paul.f. Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 funny how all 3 riders to withdraw from the meeting injured are all in there respective polish teams line up for todays matches, interesting to see which don't ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Blair Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 As soon as we saw the starting line ups with Balinski at reserve we something was amiss. Truth is, I believe that a 'team' competition should be allowed reserve replacement up to a maximum number of rides for the reserve and subject to minimum rides for each main team member (except for injury, of course). The fact is that this is not the rule. The track doctor should be from a non-participant country with nothing to gain or lose from their decisions. First he was ill, then he was injured. Later we will see if Walasek rides today. Given the 'stretching' of the rules and engine trouble in the final heat, I thought Hans was remarkably restrained. Poland were truly the losers in all of this because, being on home soil, with home track preparation and a vast abundance of experience on this particular track, to squeak by by 3 points under controversy is really truly sad. Winning 16 out of 25 heats and only winning overall by 3 certainly doesn't show the consistency of the Danish team who only won 8 heats. And for those that say that replacing Holder and Kennett (assuming they were not injured) isn't cheating, yes it is. Cheating is act of breaking the rules, not whether an advantage is gained by the breaking of the rule or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sancho Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 If rules were being broken then why didn't someone make a complaint during the meeting to the relevant officials instead of complaining to the TV afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEverWrong Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 If rules were being broken then why didn't someone make a complaint during the meeting to the relevant officials instead of complaining to the TV afterwards <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you know they didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sancho Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 How do you know they didn't? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you know that they did I think if they had we would have heard about it cos they would have been shouting from the rooftops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 The track doctor should be from a non-participant country with nothing to gain or lose from their decisions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be honest, it wouldn't matter which nationality the doc was. If a rider says he's injured or ill and there is no way of proving or disproving it, i.e. double vision, back pain, the doc will always err on the side of caution. To do anything else would possibly put other riders at risk. A neutral doc might make fans feel happier but I really can't see it having any different outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Blair Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) Well the 'good news' is that Walasek has apparently recovered well since he scored 6 from his first 3 rides for ZKŻ Kronopol Zielona Góra in Poland tonight. Even if the nationality of the doctor is irrelevant, hit 'em where it hurts and have an automatic 7 day ban for any rider deemed to have to withdraw from ANY officially sanctioned meeting in any league or international competition. If the doctor must err on the side of caution, then the rider should as well. Unfit to ride tonight means 7 day recovery period before riding anywhere. Walesek's riding tonight is proof positive that, even if he was in discomfort last night, he was capable of riding and the Poles abused the injury rule (read 'cheated')! Towards the end of last season when the crunch was on for the playoffs, Hans rode with at least 2 broken bones in his hand. He didn't complain. He rode through the pain for the benefit of the team and the league. When Jonsonn clipped him at the Danish GP and took his chain off, Hans was unhappy, but said, 'Hey, this isn't football'. In other words, he understands sportsmanship and doesn't believe in 'taking a dive' even though if he had, Jonsonn would have most likely been the one excluded. Why bash him? NB: Holder scored 11 in Poland tonight. Even though it didn't change the SWC result, its still cheating Edited July 22, 2007 by T Blair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Even if the nationality of the doctor is irrelevant, hit 'em where it hurts and have an automatic 7 day ban for any rider deemed to have to withdraw from ANY officially sanctioned meeting in any league or international competition. If the doctor must err on the side of caution, then the rider should as well. Unfit to ride tonight means 7 day recovery period before riding anywhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On that we do agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Among the riders Balinski headed home were Simon Stead and Oliver Allen. Are we really suggesting that a fully fit Grzegorz Walasek wouldn't have been able to head home those two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIROUT Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 So that means as Nicki P missed Eastbournes defeat at Reading 6 days before the World Cup started ...he should have been withdrawn at Vojens......or for that matter...2 or 3 GP'S This year jaybea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Blair Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Short answer... yes if he missed because of a medical condition and withdrew on the night of the event. If he is removed prior to the event, then the ban should be 7 days from the diagnosis. Same rule for ALL riders. Can't be any fairer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevan Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 TBH Poland had to stretch the rules the way they did to keep up with the Danes who's extra team member (Ole Olsen) stretched the rules himself by having the track doctored and made slick so the gating tart Danes could get an upper hand. Let's face it EVERY team cheated last night in one way or another but wasn't it great to see Anderson smacked arse face at the end . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judgejules Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 TBH Poland had to stretch the rules the way they did to keep up with the Danes who's extra team member (Ole Olsen) stretched the rules himself by having the track doctored and made slick so the gating tart Danes could get an upper hand. Let's face it EVERY team cheated last night in one way or another but wasn't it great to see Anderson smacked arse face at the end . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never thought I'd agree with a Somerset fan on anything , but you are spot on. The commentators were saying how Voyens was doctored for the Danes last Saturday and yet no-one was bothered, the Poles prepare their track how they like it and they are criminals. Stekkers, Andersen and Pedersen made themselves look foolish with there whinging. Some of the Polish passing was awesome, together with Cardiff the best meeting I have seen in a long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 TBH Poland had to stretch the rules the way they did to keep up with the Danes who's extra team member (Ole Olsen) stretched the rules himself by having the track doctored and made slick so the gating tart Danes could get an upper hand. Let's face it EVERY team cheated last night in one way or another but wasn't it great to see Anderson smacked arse face at the end . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never thought I'd agree with a Somerset fan on anything , but you are spot on. The commentators were saying how Vojens was doctored for the Danes last Saturday and yet no-one was bothered, the Poles prepare their track how they like it and they are criminals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But you are agreeing with someone who says something different to you! Swedebasher says the Danes cheated in the Final because Ole prepared the track for the Danes.While you say the Poles preared the track the way they like it. Plus i just haven't seen anyone moan that the track was prepared the way the Poles like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hamilton Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Try this: In future the top 5 should take a minimum of 3 rides and the reserve should be allowed to come in at any time, but only once for a particular rider. However, if a rider is injured in his first, second or third ride then he can be replaced by the reserve for the remainder of the meeting. The reserve should then not be allowed to ride for another rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 For everybodys whingeing Poland won an excellent meeting. Probably one of the best meetings ever put on by Sky. When they had the old system of 4 riders and a reserve the reserve could come in any time.So why not have the reserve rider to replace any rider at any time and up to seven rides like in the Elite League.Riders to be classified by the averages(Mean average of all leagues)and the reserve is genuine the fifth in the averages.The injury and doctor thing is all rubbish as a rider if he wants to can drop out at any time. Get rid of the joker and let teams that get 6 points or more behind replace a rider with any other ride and allow them one tactical ride each as in the old system So that a team 6 or more behind can keep replacing a rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal royal Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Why not just do away with the rule altogether. Each team can have a reserve and use him when they want up to a maximum of 4 rides ( meaning the other 5 must have had one first ). Tracks should be prepared in the normal way under the venues normal track currator. Olsen coming along and trying to impart his views on the track is always going to be contentious. I was working at smallmead during last years SWC and all he wanted was to take dirt off ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I was working at smallmead during last years SWC and all he wanted was to take dirt off ! NEVER???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombersbees Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 So what you're saying is that the CMO was corrupt? Any proof of that? Or just the Grapes of Yeucchhh! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Proof. He was surpossed to have hurt his foot. right? well he wasnt in any pain after the last race when he was giving T.Gollob the bumps. How does he explain that? in my opinion the Poles knew they had made a mistake leaving Balinski out of the team and therefore changed the team to gain an unfair advantage by CHEATING a track specialist and Leszno team © into the team by declaring a unknown injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 It seemed he was a bad loser, whining about the use of the reserve and also saying his bike had a problem - it could have just been that he was beaten fair and square by two riders in the final heat!! As for the use of the reserve, everybody knows Walasek, Holder & Kennett weren't injured but even so there was no doubting that the Poles were the best team. I doubt they'd have won outside of Poland but competing in your home country(Norwegians excepted) seems to give you a lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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