Late 1970's Dohc Weslake

[twincamweslake]

OK, hi from Australia to all. Looking for some more info on approx. how many of the Weslake DOHC 500cc motors were ever built. I was in touch with Brian Valentine some years ago, but he wasn't able to spread too much light on that particular info for me. I actually have two motors, was wondering if any of you might be able to spread some more light on the history of them and are there many about in the UK?

 

Cheers and thanks

[Trackman]

OK, hi from Australia to all.  I actually have two motors, was wondering if any of you might be able to spread some more light on the history of them and are there many about in the UK?

 

Cheers and thanks

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G/Day TCW.

Re: http://www.sliderphil.netfirms.com/Bikehistory.htm

Regards.

[MARK246]

The DOHC I owned was built in Rye by the Weslake engine company. The company (or the speedway part ;unsure ) was bought by Tig perry and Bill Davis in the early 80's . This became Antig Weslake the company still produces parts for Weslakes their webb site with contact details is on www.antig.co uk.

I am sure that there was a post on this forum from, either a relative or employee of the original Weslake (Rye) works their main business was car motors maybe cosworth ?

I hope you can use this information in your search good luck.

[MARK246]

Sorry typing is not good missed a dot.

The web site for Antig is www.antig.co.uk.

Weslake Rye web site www.weslake.co.uk,

[twincamweslake]

Hi to Trackman and Mark 246, thanks for your input on my enquiry regarding the Weslake DOHC speedway motor. The motor I have that runs was built in 1979 and raced by John Titman in Australia during the 79/80 season. When I was in England in the early 90's I caught up with Bill Davies and actually bought a set of brand new tapered main shafts he had, which were used in the DOHC. I still have them wrapped up unused, cos I doubt I would be able to get any others these days, especially new.

 

I checked both Weslake and Antig websites but no information really on there about old speedway stuff. A number of these engines must have ended up in Australia, even though not all that many were made (around 50?). I know of two other engines over here that are brand new, never fired a shot. Kenny Carter bought one to Perth when he rode there for the season, must have been 79/80. I do not know if that is still around over there or the blown up motor I bought in bits from Perth could be the same one, I don't really know!

 

Thanks for your interest anyway, I will keep searching.. Cheers from Oz..!

[Trackman]

Hi to Trackman and Mark 246, thanks for your input on my enquiry regarding the Weslake DOHC speedway motor. The motor I have that runs was built in 1979 and raced by John Titman in Australia during the 79/80 season. When I was in England in the early 90's I caught up with Bill Davies and actually bought a set of brand new tapered main shafts he had, which were used in the DOHC. I still have them wrapped up unused, cos I doubt I would be able to get any others these days, especially new.

 

I checked both Weslake and Antig websites but no information really on there about old speedway stuff. A number of these engines must have ended up in Australia, even though not all that many were made (around 50?). I know of two other engines over here that are brand new, never fired a shot. Kenny Carter bought one to Perth when he rode there for the season, must have been 79/80. I do not know if that is still around over there or the blown up motor I bought in bits from Perth could be the same one, I don't really know!

 

Thanks for your interest anyway, I will keep searching.. Cheers from Oz..!

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G/Day TCW.

You should bring your motor to Labrador next Sunday..... We might find a rolling chassi for you.

Gold Coast Classic Weekend -

The Gold Coast Motorcycle & Sporting Club’s Championships round three will run Sunday 15th July at Mike Hatcher Park in Larador. Speedway from 10am to

1pm Dirt track 2pm to 5pm.(Knobby tyres acceptable) This is a closed to club event, competitors must be club member. Entry fee is $20 per competitor, sign-on & scrutineering at least one hour prior to your competition. Day race licences available @ $44.00 each.

 

General Club meeting to be held at clubrooms 7.30pm Monday 9th July. All members are invited and encouraged to attend these monthly meeting for the benefit of yourself and your sport.

 

Regards.

PS.

Quote from http://www.goldcoastspeedway.homestead.com/

Just between me and you for the mo ....

we could be seeing the speedcars too.

[sandman]

OK, hi from Australia to all. Looking for some more info on approx. how many of the Weslake DOHC 500cc motors were ever built. I was in touch with Brian Valentine some years ago, but he wasn't able to spread too much light on that particular info for me. I actually have two motors, was wondering if any of you might be able to spread some more light on the history of them and are there many about in the UK?

 

Cheers and thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dont think many were built. Top heavy to ride and never realised their potential. Just didnt make the power they should have. Make a good boat anchor, however, fairly rare so should be collectable. Hang on to it..

[twincamweslake]

Thanks Trackman and Sandman. Trackman, one of my engines is in the original Weslake chassis exactly as it was raced by John Titman in 1979/80 in Aust. John only rode it for one season for the exact reason that Sandman said, it was too top heavy and because of the way they did the crank/main shaft, it required a lot of maintenance to ensure the engine would rev freely. John actually cut a lot of material out of the barrell and head to reduce some weight, so it does vary in appearance to the standard motor. Although John had some good success on the motor the season he raced it here, feedback to the Weslake factory was obviously not too encouraging to keep manufacture going on it.

 

Trackman thanks for the invite to the Gold Coast next weekend, but nah, wait till the new season starts later in the year, as for the speedcars, only interested in legitimately restored vintage speedcars.

[MARK246]

If you ride the motor regular keep an eye on the woodruff key on the camshafts.

 

They are cut so only half of the raised part is left,the other removed section, is for clearance on the timing plate with the drive pin ,which sets the cam timing.These have a tendency to shear,because of the direct cam to valve position any failure on the key can lift the cam housing from the head casting.I was lucky when mine went ,I was "pulling back" the engine when it sheared.Other than having problems cleaning dirt from the head to change the spark plug it gave me great service for two seasons racing.

Have fun and enjoy it, I still think it was one of the best motors ever.

Edited July 9, 2007 by MARK246

[sandman]

If you ride the motor regular keep an eye on the woodruff key on the camshafts.

 

They are cut so only half of the raised part is left,the other removed section, is for clearance on the timing plate with the drive pin ,which sets the cam timing.These have a tendency to shear,because of the direct cam to valve position any failure on the key can lift the cam housing from the head casting.I was lucky when mine went ,I was "pulling back" the engine when it sheared.Other than having problems cleaning dirt from the head to change the spark plug it gave me great service for two seasons racing.

Have fun and enjoy it, I still think it was one of the best motors ever.

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nice post, but, they were slow. too much hassle, too little gain. however, nice collectible but the design should have produced 20 more horsepower than they did. inherent design flaw which is surprising being a Weslake. made a good sound though.

[twincamweslake]

Yeah thanks Mark and Sandman for the tip about the keys. When they designed the engine and John was to be a test pilot he pleaded with them not to do the crank/main shaft with tapered shafts and main bearings. They would not listen and said that the idea was successful in road racing, but John said no, it wont work in speedway, rev a lot higher etc. But they went ahead and designed it the way they wanted and it really was the main downfall of it, besides being too top heavy compared to the pushrod Weslake. Even though Tito only raced it for a season over here, he spent a lot of time mucking around with cams and a "outside of factory specs"set up on the bottom end. This improved the motor quite a bit and I remember him racing it here, it went well, but certainly no quicker than his normal Weslakes at the time. John did finish second overall to Billy Sanders on the motor in the 1980 Australasian Final in NZ. The field was pretty strong, including Crumpie, Mitch Shirra, Larry Ross, Mike Farrell, Steve Koppe etc. so it was no slug after he tinkered with it, just a lot of extra maintenance for no real gain in performance.

 

I do not race the bike ever, give it an occasional start on the stand a couple of times a year and thats it. Whenever I display it anywhere it attracts a lot of attention and even though "WESLAKE DOHC" is stamped on the timing cover, many people ask, "whats that"?

[marcusthepom]

Yeah thanks Mark and Sandman for the tip about the keys. When they designed the engine and John was to be a test pilot he pleaded with them not to do the crank/main shaft with tapered shafts and main bearings. They would not listen and said that the idea was successful in road racing, but John said no, it wont work in speedway, rev a lot higher etc. But they went ahead and designed it the way they wanted and it really was the main downfall of it, besides being too top heavy compared to the pushrod Weslake. Even though Tito only raced it for a season over here, he spent a lot of time mucking around with cams and a "outside of factory specs"set up on the bottom end. This improved the motor quite a bit and I remember him racing it here, it went well, but certainly no quicker than his normal Weslakes at the time. John did finish second overall to Billy Sanders on the motor in the 1980 Australasian Final in NZ. The field was pretty strong, including Crumpie, Mitch Shirra, Larry Ross, Mike Farrell, Steve Koppe etc. so it was no slug after he tinkered with it, just a lot of extra maintenance for no real gain in performance.

 

I do not race the bike ever, give it an occasional start on the stand a couple of times a year and thats it. Whenever I display it anywhere it attracts a lot of attention and even though "WESLAKE DOHC" is stamped on the timing cover, many people ask, "whats that"?

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[marcusthepom]

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weslakes just the best,the dohc wessie is not common they tell me only 11 or 12 350cc were made,and not much more of the 500cc.i was very lucky to pick up an ex works engine from a fellow in the uk last year.its got all the goodies in it.

i think the main probelm with the engine was that they were a real s@@t to keep on song.the cam timing alone is a eye popper the speciel tools that came with the motor make me very pleased i only rode the pushrod engines and the flat tops.

 

if you want to talk about an engine that was a dog to ride how about the 4 valve jap dohc.

thats what i call a real dog.havin said that does anybody want to sell one.i would be happy to take the paper weight of there hands

[Trackman]

as for the speedcars, only interested in legitimately restored vintage speedcars.

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LOL!

Only Genuine speedcars are allowed in the club... they are Legends.. just like the drivers.

http://www.historicspeedway.com/

Regards.

[sandman]

i thought the Weslake SOHC was a tidy package, but once again, they just werent as good as the push rod model, probably not enough developement? I know too that Weslake made a few push rod two valves for the under 21 finals. I would think those would be the most valuable of the lot. If anybody has one of those sitting in a barn, i would be interested in takin it off your hands..

Edited July 22, 2007 by sandman

[twincamweslake]

LOL!

Only Genuine speedcars are allowed in the club... they are Legends.. just like the drivers.

http://www.historicspeedway.com/

Regards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Genuine???? Think you need a dictionary to look up the meaning....

[Iused2]

Hi to anyone interested in this subject.

Unfortunatly I cannot answer the question of "how many were made"as I have been told some were sold as complete engines and some as kits to put onto single

OHC bottem ends.Near the engine number on the DS crankcase the history of the bottem end can be found,with "DOHC" or "PLPS" appearing to relate to the twin cams.I may be wrong but the engine numbers seem to be continuous ,irrespective of type,as was the historic system used by so many manufacturers.

I am in the UK East Midlands,and I know of 3 DOHC Weslakes,all 500cc,one of which was used by Reg Wilson in a [Gordon May] Comet frame at Sheffield.These engines are terrible to work on,but Dave Jessup once said he had a works bike which was fantastic on the track until it went back for a service after which it was "ordinary".I suspect they lost the cam timings!

[twincamweslake]

Iused2, thanks for your input re the engine numbers. I just had a look at my two engines. The engine that John Titman rode is No: 3183 DOHC and another engine I bought blown up has No: 3373 TLPS.

 

I wonder what the difference is regarding the lettering?? I do remember seeing a picture of Reg Wilson on one many years ago in the Star, didn't know DJ rode one at some stage but....

 

Thanks for your interest....

[Iused2]

Re my earlier,I have found some engine numbers.For the ex Reg Wilson I only have the number ,which is 3225.The others are 3190 P DOHC and 3214 PLPS DOHC.You may be interested that an early sohc engine has 2081 QPLS,whilst another sohc says 3204 P DOHC! Probably this last one was altered and had a different top end.I never could sort out my Ps and Qs. I think the pushrod engines were TLPS or HLTP.Perhaps someone out there knows or understands these choises of letterings.

[MARK246]

The one I had was originaly sold to an American Mike Caruso (unsure on the spelling) who rode at Poole.I sold it to Broadside racing two years ago.

Richard Hellsen and Finn Thompsen also tried to use them,Thompsen wanted his for the world championship but didn't use it. When I owned mine I was lucky to know Bob Jones at Swindon, he had seen several used (Malc Holloway tried one ) but it was unsure whether it was the same one doing the rounds or not.

The SOHC flat top I have has a eng no,2267 T L P S.

The conversion from double to single cam was done on two engines ( I know off) that were used on grasstrack by Tig Perry at Antig.

I would think that if you contact either Chris or Dave at Antig they would be happy to supply the information you want. They should also have the records from the Weslake factory in Rye.