Gary Stanworth Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 In addition to my last post i can now say after all these years of wondering that i can now understand what was going on in Kenny's head when he finaly lost it. This book clearly sets out the many problems that he had, some of which will come as a surprise to all who know anything about top speedway riders and the way they opperate. I also believe, like many other Halifax fans do that Ivan Mauger cost Kenny the 1981 world title, why ? I well remember seeing Kenny come out on Ivans bike which as he left the pits was misfiring badly. The Halifax fans were all shouting out for him to go back and change it. After doing a practice start he did so but was sent back out by Ivan, Why ? Did Ivan believe Kenny was too young to be world champion ? What if he had gone on to win ? Anybody else remember this incident ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markone Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I pre-ordered this book form Amazon, but the delivery to them has been held up, only dispatched today! I await its arrival! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 got my copy yesterday already up to chapter 12 , page 106 and i dont do book's / reading as a rule but this one as got me hooked great stories & pictures so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sjl Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 I pre-ordered this book form Amazon, but the delivery to them has been held up, only dispatched today! I await its arrival! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mine too very frustrating especially hearing other people's posts!!! Mine expected 9th July can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) In addition to my last post i can now say after all these years of wondering that i can now understand what was going on in Kenny's head when he finaly lost it. This book clearly sets out the many problems that he had, some of which will come as a surprise to all who know anything about top speedway riders and the way they opperate. I also believe, like many other Halifax fans do that Ivan Mauger cost Kenny the 1981 world title, why ? I well remember seeing Kenny come out on Ivans bike which as he left the pits was misfiring badly. The Halifax fans were all shouting out for him to go back and change it. After doing a practice start he did so but was sent back out by Ivan, Why ? Did Ivan believe Kenny was too young to be world champion ? What if he had gone on to win ? Anybody else remember this incident ????? Â <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â A complete and stupid suggestion. You obviously do not know the man and what's important to speedway riders. It was in Ivan's interest to be associated with the "new" world champion" and your saying that he put him out on a duff bike so his rider would lose a world championship. Utter nonsense. Be interesting to hear Steve Hone's reaction to such a suggestion. Â Edited July 6, 2007 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Be interesting to hear Steve Hone's reaction to such a suggestion<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â what can i say, Ivan was and is a winner, and anything he puts his name to he would want to succeed. no point replying, people have their opinions. Â Kenny and Ivan both heroes of mine so maybe i'd be biased, but i know Ivan wouldn't make a stupid decision like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stanworth Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hi Steve and Tsunami, were you at Wembley for the 81 world final ? I was and so were several friends, we all saw what happened, can you think of a reason why Ivan told Kenny to go back out on that misfiring bike. We all said it would not last for four laps and look what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Hi Steve and Tsunami, were you at Wembley for the 81 world final ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â yeah, and 82, and 83, and 84 Â Â can you think of a reason why Ivan told Kenny to go back out on that misfiring bike. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â i'll ask him sometime Edited July 6, 2007 by stevehone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stanworth Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hi Steve , don't want to start an argument with you, but if you were there did you see and hear the state of that bike ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 nothing to argue about ... it was 26 years ago and i can't say i remember how the bike sounded. i will certainly ask the question though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Now finished the book. Â An excellent read, and don't worry, it doesn't hold back. It is interesting to finally read Bruce Penhall's views on Kenny Carter, even though they're not pretty!! Â And has it changed my opinion on Kenny Carter - the rider I loved to hate as a child? Not really. Â The bloke was dealt a very hard difficult of set of cards, but it still doesn't excuse his completely arrogant, unlikeable personality, and certainly doesn't excuse his dreadful final act. Â All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireblade Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 I would respectfully suggest that the whole concept of this book is insensitive to the Carter family.... IMO, Kenny Carter's life, bearing in mind the shocking way it ended and the terrible harm done to so many by him was NOT in anyway a suitable subject for a book. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â Â Crime books about The Yorkshire Ripper etc then are not suitable? Â There was an in depth feature about Kenny including the tragic end in 5-1 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled Bandit Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Given that any comments made by the subject of the book are rendered invalid by the fact that he is dead, why can't we be told the complete story? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â Don't think that you understand the libel laws very well - obviously you cannot libel anyone who is dead ... but those living can be libelled, even by a dead man, and sue the a**e off anyone who repeats those libellous comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) "You cannot be sued for libel if what you are saying is true". Â If the author has left something out of the book for the fear of being sued, It is either untrue or hearsay which cannot be proved. Â I think Bobbath has a point, he percieved the review in a certain light, others may have done the same. Perhaps the wording was ill considered?. It seems the review could be seen as a bad piece of PR or perhaps it could be a marketing ploy to create a greater air of 'mystery' ?............it certainly got the book plenty of publicity on this forum......No such thing as bad publicity ...only publicity. Â Inevitably books written about controversial charactors and events will unfortunately offend someone, but books have a long way to go to catch up with the Tabloid newspapers, who have no qualms about offending those close to a tragedy. Edited July 10, 2007 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Crime books about The Yorkshire Ripper etc then are not suitable? Â Well, it depends in the setting in which they're promoted.. Obviously many books are written about awful crimes..: but one wouldn't expect the Yorkshire Tourist Board to promote the Ripper books by selling in their outlets with a smiling face of Pete Sutcliffe on the cover and a blurb that read "the full sensational story" etc. And ditto with books about the awful events in Soham a couple of years back.. Â Not that I'm comparing Kenny Carter to those crimes (it was someone else who made the Ripper comment...): but I personally have reservations about a biography being sold at tracks around the country and promoted the way it has, when - as Rob has pointed out on another thread - the awful circumstances of Carter's death and that of his wife was splashed luridly over the front pages in most of ours recent-ish memory bringing the whole sport and those of us who love it into a measure of disrepute and shame. Â I respect Tony very much and am sure he's written an excellent, well-balanced book and I think Richard Clark's review in the Star summed up the problems with the subject matter and did say it has been handled sensitively and expertly. Â Just my opinion really (and yes, maybe a touch puritanical on my part.. ) that this was an incident (and by association, a life & career) which I didn't in all honesty want to see promoted in this way.. Â Learning lessons is valuable from any incident (and yes, there's been tragic suicides of other riders including a great hero of mine, Billy Sanders..) but the case of Kenny Carter is an awfully dark one and sometimes darkness is best left alone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATigerman Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) ................the awful circumstances of Carter's death and that of his wife was splashed luridly over the front pages in most of ours recent-ish memory bringing the whole sport and those of us who love it into a measure of disrepute and shame.  <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  Quite how you come to the view that the events under discussion bring 'a measure of disrepute and shame' to those who love speedway is beyond me. Edited July 11, 2007 by WATigerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Quite how you come to the view that the events under discussion bring 'a measure of disrepute and shame' to those who love speedway is beyond me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â Equally then I presume Parsloes considers Peter Sutcliffes crimes bringing shame on all Yorkshire folk, or Fred West bringing shame on the construction community nationwide. Â Kenny Carters crime brought shame on Kenny Carter and Kenny Carter alone. He of course heaped misery and suffering on numerous friends and relatives through his crime. Â The question here seems to be should this story be told in all its horrific detail? Â My personal opinion is yes it should. A long time has passed and the heartbreak caused at the time is much less raw now over 21 years since the shooting. Â There will be nothing in the book that Malcolm and Kelly Marie are not aware of and so will not adversley affect them. Â Ultimately sales will decide if Tony Mac has misjudged the mood of the people, if he sells hardly any copies then Parsloes can claim "told you so" but I suspect the book will sell like hot cakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Quite how you come to the view that the events under discussion bring 'a measure of disrepute and shame' to those who love speedway is beyond me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â What you don't think that the fact that Britain's top rider at the time did what he did and it was front page news in all the national dailies did any harm to the reputation of the sport and didn't have an effect on the shunning of the sport by that same media over many following years....?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Although I've not read cover-to-cover yet, I have had a damn good pick through it and I think it is a very good read indeed. I wouldn't let John Berry put anyone off. For what it's worth I find Berry a rather smug, self-satisfied writer, albeit a very readable one...if that makes any sense?! ("Confessions", is just about the best speedway book out there IMO). Â The Kenny Carter book provides a nicely balanced view of the guy with some good little anecdotes and quite a few tasty morsels that I didn't know. As far as I can see the only things missing are: "Which Yanks were on drugs?" and "Was Kenny or Pam ever unfaithful?". Of course, the involvement of the families would have given the book even greater depth, but I think most will understand their decision not to be involved. Overall, I'd say it was a bloody good effort and well worth buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Well my book came this morning and i am up to chapter 12 cant put it down nearly missed picking little en up from school. I was thinking what he would have made of the GPs and riders pulling out all to often he wouldnt have would he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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