Kenny Carter Book

[fatface]

Michael Lee was anoher British rider who burnt himself out too early and yet he won the following on the international stage:

 

World Champion (1980) plus two more on the rostrum in 1979 & 1983

World Longtrack Champion (1981)

World Team Cup Champion (1977 & 1980)

Inter-Continental Champion (1979)

Commonwealth Champion (1979)

 

Six international wins to Carter's one.

Lee had at least eight years at the top level, no major injuries and well, he lived. But, pleased to see that we're now measuring Carter alongside the type of riders he should be compared to. Not sure how many would rank the Longtrack, Inter-continental and Commonwealth titles above the BLRC and British Final. Very few riders or fans from that era I suspect. As for the WTC, it'd be harsh to measure a rider's individual prowess when he is largely reliant on his team-mates. God knows, Carter tried his best. Even his maximum in the Danes' backyard of Vojens against the likes of Penhall, Olsen, Gundersen, Nielsen, Sigalos wasn't enough to get England through to the final in 82.

Edited December 2, 2009 by falcace

[salty]

Have enjoyed reading this thread. Interesting to see so many different views on Kenny, which I suppose reminds us how, when alive, he also inspired such ranges of opinion.

I reckon the loss of the title in 1982 was something he never really recovered from, he certainly wasn't so dominant domestically in 1983 as he had been in 1982.

Would he have gone on to win a World Individual Title if he'd lived? I doubt it, because the frailties of mind that caused his final actions were already affecting his performance on track. The broken legs in 1984 and 1985 effectively scuppered those hopes and we'll never know if he would have been able to cope with the pressure of being a home favourite at Bradford in 1985.

Was he good? He certainly was. I saw the two BLRC victories and he was brilliant on those nights against very strong fields. Perhaps he would have grabbed a title in 1983 at any other track than Norden, but unless my memory fails me he was only one of many riders who had a shout, whereas in 1982 I saw it as between him and Penhall.

[liverpool chad]

In 79 and 80, Carter was 18/19 year old kid. But I'd be interested to hear the exact details of the matches in 82 and 83 which you recall. Particularly "running rings" round him in 82. So if you can dig those out, I'd be intuiged to hear of it. Ditto the multiple Grahame/Collins 5-1s.

 

It will have to be next week now for those programmes if you are that interested! as i am away from home from tonight with work. But believe me it did happen as did the 5-1's for Cradley.

 

This topic as gone a little off topic and i'm probably as responsible for this as anybody else. But don't get me wrong has i have said before i neither liked or disliked Kenny Carter when he was riding, i may of disliked the way he would on occasions, shall we say PUT HIMSELF ABOUT, but i neither liked or disliked him, and i certainly do not have an opinion about him after the tragic events of 1986, as i was not there and to be honest it's none of my business!

I just wanted to get that in as, reading through my previous posts it sounds as though i either had a complete hatred of him or i'm oblivious to what he brought to the sport i love.

It's my opinion that Kenny Carter was a strong heat leader for his club Halifax, had a strong determination to reach the very pinnacle of the sport and on occasions would show glimpses of just what he was capable of (2x BLRC, 2x BRITISH FINAL & GOLDEN HAMMER) iv'e included the golden hammer as IMO thats the best i ever saw of KC he truely was polished that night. But for me he just did not do it on enough occasions and thats why its my opinion that he his not one of the all time greats or best rider not to be crowned world champion. but as i've just stated it's all my own opinion.

 

Regards

Mark.

 

In 79 and 80, Carter was 18/19 year old kid. But I'd be interested to hear the exact details of the matches in 82 and 83 which you recall. Particularly "running rings" round him in 82. So if you can dig those out, I'd be intuiged to hear of it. Ditto the multiple Grahame/Collins 5-1s.

 

So are we going to totally ignore the race's that Collins won and hope that i can't find anymore programmes, and stick to your original story of you only ever seeing collins beat him once!

I was on the phone last night to an old friend of mine who followed halifax from the late 1960's and when i told him of our disagreement about Carter, he said, he felt Carter had the ability to go all the way and not only be world champion but a multi world champion! But after 1982 or by the start of 1983 he felt that he was not going to get any better than he already was and probably would not win a world title, and he saw him every week and not just once a month as i did in those days(Saturday nights split between cov, BV,halifax cradley and swin). when asked about Peter Collins riding at halifax my old friend said Peter Collins could come over that hill beat anyone he liked around Halifax.

Regards

Mark.

[waihekerich]

So are we going to totally ignore the race's that Collins won and hope that i can't find anymore programmes, and stick to your original story of you only ever seeing collins beat him once!

I was on the phone last night to an old friend of mine who followed halifax from the late 1960's and when i told him of our disagreement about Carter, he said, he felt Carter had the ability to go all the way and not only be world champion but a multi world champion! But after 1982 or by the start of 1983 he felt that he was not going to get any better than he already was and probably would not win a world title, and he saw him every week and not just once a month as i did in those days(Saturday nights split between cov, BV,halifax cradley and swin). when asked about Peter Collins riding at halifax my old friend said Peter Collins could come over that hill beat anyone he liked around Halifax.

Regards

Mark.

I'm pretty sure that falcace said he only saw Carter get beaten once between 81 and 85, hence why the matches from 79-80 (when Carter was just establishing himself as a heat leader) are excluded. I'm reasonably confident that I saw all the Aces matches at the Shay in that period too, and pretty sure only saw any aces rider (Collins) beat him once (and almost on another when PC was controversially excluded for unfair riding after passing him down the final straight). Certainly Larry Ross (who was probably the Aces' best around the shay in that period) and Mort never beat Kenny there.

Thnik its a fair call that Carter didn't improve after 82 - but he was pretty damn good that season!

[fatface]

YOU COULD COUNT ON THE FINGERS OF ONE HAND THE TIMES CARTER CAME FROM THE BACK, AND MOST OF THEM HE JUST RODE STRAIGHT THROUGH WHOEVER WAS IN FRONT OF HIM !

NO BRAIN AT ALL.

Here's a little reminder of why I am a little reluctant to rely upon your recollections. This was an absolute gem!

[liverpool chad]

Here's a little reminder of why I am a little reluctant to rely upon your recollections. This was an absolute gem!

 

Sorry to of gone to the trouble of searching through some of my old programmes. But if you disagree with any of the heat details given then i suggest you obtain copys of the speedway star just to confirm the dates and details are correct.

And as for my opinion of K Carter not coming from the back to often or being a dirty rider, then i guess you weren't in attendance at the shay when he rode into the back of Hans Nielsen in the early eighties where he came off worst or the time in 81 when he barged Bruce Penhall out of the way in heats two and three of the golden helmet(second leg) or the time in the mid eighties at hyde road when he rode straight into Peter Collins on the popular bend. or then again i could be making it all up!

And as for the comment being "an absolute gem" as you put it. Then how about thinking that the world longtrack title or the inter continental title are worth less the the british title! now that is a gem! being the best in the world at long tracking or beating the best danes, swedes, americans and the ones who qualified from the british final, or beating the best from a nation who had only produced riders that stood on top of the rostrum on world final night five times, in my lifetime!!!

Edited December 24, 2009 by liverpool chad

[davidba]

Just finished the book, what a tragic tale, his life seems like an overdramatic b movie.

I think when the story of the killings reached me it just made up my mind at the time to turn my back on the sport i loved so much in my childhood.

Lucky for me i had the chance to see the error of my thinking nearly 20 years later.

I just hope the kids have managed to have a normal life without the demons that Kenny carried around with him.

[liverpool chad]

In 79 and 80, Carter was 18/19 year old kid. But I'd be interested to hear the exact details of the matches in 82 and 83 which you recall. Particularly "running rings" round him in 82. So if you can dig those out, I'd be intuiged to hear of it. Ditto the multiple Grahame/Collins 5-1s.

 

Falcace,

As promised here are just a couple of details of messr's Collins & Grahame's 5-1's over K Carter at the Shay in the 1980's

 

1982 league cup meeting; Sunday April 18th

HEAT TEN CARTER 1

JANKE 0

COLLINS 2

GRAHAME 3 TIME 65-

 

1983 league cup meeting; Friday May 6th

HEAT TEN CARTER 1

FINCH 0

COLLINS 3

GRAHAME 2 TIME 65.9

 

I have also seen the same score on a couple of other occasions at the shay between Carter, Collins and Grahame in the early 80's but these are the first box of programmes that i came across in the loft!

But of course once again i could be making it all up but just check the speedway star from that time as you will find the above details to be true.

 

Merry christmas

Mark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pandorum]

Was a regular saturday night visitor to The Shay during the Carter era as I liked watching The Dukes.

KC was a damn good rider who gave a damn good account of himself every race. But he never seemed to have that little extra that rivals like Penhall had and for me underachieved as a rider. His sad demise was a shock and for me a book about it seems a little disrespectful. His private life was just that. But sadly sensation sells and there will always be plenty of people to make money out of it.

Kenny the rider stirred up enough controversy for any book. The magic night when Bruce won the 1981 world final a perfect example of KC at his best.

I liked Kenny even though he never was one of my favourite riders and always thought he could have acheived more if only he could have channeled his aggression a bit more into his racing.

Still one of Britains great speedway riders and on his night a sight to see round The Shay.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Just finished the book, what a tragic tale, his life seems like an overdramatic b movie.

I think when the story of the killings reached me it just made up my mind at the time to turn my back on the sport i loved so much in my childhood.

Lucky for me i had the chance to see the error of my thinking nearly 20 years later.

I just hope the kids have managed to have a normal life without the demons that Kenny carried around with him.

 

Interesting David.

Not dissimilar with myself. I recall vividly buying the Daily Mirror in Stepney that May '86 morning and walking into the office where I worked with my then new girlfriend - now wife of over 20 years - and us reading the story.

She was, like anyone would be, horrified at the story and that I knew so much of this person and his sport.

 

It is, of course, churlish and inappropriate considering the awful loss of Pamela and the tragedy this was for her children to talk about the effect this awful thing had upon the way people view the sport. But like David I didn't go to another meeting for years and many I'm sure - not least in the media - never viewed the sport again in the same light...

A large amount of the sport died also that day at Grey Horse Farm. And I for one agree with those who intimate that this book should not have been written..

[shazzybird]

Kenny Carter was one of my heros, regardless of what happened that awful day he still remains high up there. I feel for their children as I knew personally someone who did exactly the same 22 years ago.

 

Regardless of what he did on or off the track, the book was indeed written very well I enjoyed it so much to the point I've read it several times, everyone will have an opinion on his racing, his homelife but unless he told anyone why, no one will ever really know the entire truth as to what went wrong with his career or his homelife.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning (sp) what he did but it's all too easy to slate someone that cannot reply.

 

 

[iris123]

Yes,i look forward to reading "Hitler,not such a bad bloke after all" or the one on the Kray twins "What a couple of lovely lads,always nice to their Gran".

[lucifer sam]

A large amount of the sport died also that day at Grey Horse Farm. And I for one agree with those who intimate that this book should not have been written..

 

Parsloes, I'm not sure if anyone has suggested that at all. Why should the book not be written? In my humble opinion, Tony Mac did a very good job with the book.

 

After all, the book is not written in a sensational style and doesn't delve too much into the sordid details that led to the "Tragedy" of the book's title. I have a tendency to read bits out of factual books, rather then everything, but I read the whole of the Kenny Carter Book. It was a good read.

 

And it pretty much left your to draw your own conclusions. Some of the interviewees were sympathetic towards Carter, others certainly were not. It means the book can be read by those in both the pro-Carter and anti-Carter camps (Carter was like Marmite, you either loved him or hated him, there's few with a neutral view of him).

 

As someone who grew up in the anti-Carter camp (I was a firm Bruce Penhall fan), the book went someway to explaining why Carter ended up as a such as an arrogant, unlikeable character. The guy had it tough. He was, no doubt, behind all the bluster, a hugely insecure individual - and maybe these explains why such a talented rider ended up winning so little on the international stage. The one thing, however, that I can't get my mind around is that final act. However, tough things have been, there's no justification for taking the life of another, in this case the mother of two young children.

 

This was a story waiting to be written - at some point, a book about the turbulent life of Kenny Carter was going to be published (look at the way this thread has kept on going - Carter is still a hot topic for debate). Just be thankful that it's a sensitive, well-written telling and not a sordid, sensationalist and cobbled-together one.

 

All the best

Rob

[shazzybird]

Yes,i look forward to reading "Hitler,not such a bad bloke after all" or the one on the Kray twins "What a couple of lovely lads,always nice to their Gran".

 

 

Dear oh dear iris, hardly a comparrison (sp) is it

[Lucy Skywalker]

Dear oh dear iris, hardly a comparrison (sp) is it

Not at all Hitler was not such a bad bloke just got a little carried away

 

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Parsloes, I'm not sure if anyone has suggested that at all. Why should the book not be written? In my humble opinion, Tony Mac did a very good job with the book.

 

After all, the book is not written in a sensational style and doesn't delve too much into the sordid details that led to the "Tragedy" of the book's title.

.... the book went someway to explaining why Carter ended up as a such as an arrogant, unlikeable character. The guy had it tough. He was, no doubt, behind all the bluster, a hugely insecure individual - and maybe these explains why such a talented rider ended up winning so little on the international stage. The one thing, however, that I can't get my mind around is that final act. However, tough things have been, there's no justification for taking the life of another, in this case the mother of two young children.

 

This was a story waiting to be written - at some point, a book about the turbulent life of Kenny Carter was going to be published (look at the way this thread has kept on going - Carter is still a hot topic for debate). Just be thankful that it's a sensitive, well-written telling and not a sordid, sensationalist and cobbled-together one.

All the best

Rob

 

Well, okay, Rob you're right... And I'm sure Tony has done a good job.

The trouble I have with it is that there are still those like the following who can post as follows:

 

Kenny Carter was one of my heros, regardless of what happened that awful day he still remains high up there. I feel for their children as I knew personally someone who did exactly the same 22 years ago.

Regardless of what he did on or off the track, the book was indeed written very well I enjoyed it so much to the point I've read it several times, everyone will have an opinion on his racing, his homelife but unless he told anyone why, no one will ever really know the entire truth as to what went wrong with his career or his homelife.

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning (sp) what he did but it's all too easy to slate someone that cannot reply.

 

You see, to me it is simply unacceptable to write things like, "regardless of what happened that awful day he still remains high up there [as one of my heroes]..." and "it's all too easy to slate someone that cannot reply".

 

The only 'slating' Carter is getting is for, as Rob says, "taking the life of another, in this case the mother of two young children".

 

shazzy appears to show no feeling for Kenny's wife - just mentioning the two orphaned children; and - as others have done - reduces a shocking act to some kind of mild misdemeanor, returning to a theme which suggests we should only ever judge this character on his track exploits and not what she euphemestically calls his "homelife".

 

Shooting someone in the back as they flee in fear for their life is NOT that. It is simply unforgiveable and to me we should not be debating Carter in the way this book (however well researched and written...) and this thread (and other similar ones...) does..

 

[shazzybird]

Get off your high horse Parsloes you are reading far too much into something that I haven't actually written, I feel for both the families that lost a Son & Daughter, when my friends Dad shot himself and his wife it didn't change what I thought of him as that wasn't the man I knew!

 

How dare you (once again) rip to pieces my comments for your own understanding, I will explain to you in person one day my feelings on the subject but then you only have one opinion as always and that's your own!!! Like I said I'm not condoning (sp) what he did and YES neither party can speak for themselves the PERSONAL events which led to that tragic day which is something you nor I can even begin to guess at!

 

He was and will always be one of my SPEEDWAY heros for what he achieved ON TRACK his personal life is of no interest to me but certainly had to be included in the book, it couldn't of been that bad a write up as so many people contributed to adding their stories of Kenny ...... Like him or loathe him he is part of British Speedway history!!!!

 

Read the book Parsloes if you're too tight to buy a copy I'll lend you mine ..... then come back and review it!

 

You find what I've written "unacceptable" and .......... so what it's my opinion, you and others wont agree (but then that's REALLY no surprise to me) and quite frankly I don't care if you don't like what I say put me on IGNORE it's ever so easy

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning (sp) what he did but it's all too easy to slate someone that cannot reply.

 

Explain to us, then, your comment about it being all too easy to slate someone who can't reply... This implies the person could have a defence if around to give it...

Presumably you don't believe in this case he could, so why make such a grossly insensitive - indeed nonsensical - comment...

 

I accept you liked Carter as a rider and that this case still arouses strong emotions, but in this case you should admit that your earlier posting was way, way out of order...

[shazzybird]

My posting was NOT out of order Parsloes, you jump on everything that people say that YOU don't agree with, you obviously was not a Carter fan that is entirely your decision, Like I have said numerous times I don't condone (sp) what he did to his WIFE (there ya go, I mentioned Mrs Carter just for you, as you are complaining I didn't earlier) and then to himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The only person who wants a explanation is YOU AGAIN!!!! because AGAIN you are reading and disecting a posting far too much

 

Work it out for yourself the comment I made, a dead man cannot speak for himself so it's easy to summise, only two people Kenny & his wife (there ya go another mentioned!!) know what happened and the circumstances leading up to it, so STOP DIGGING!

 

Maybe you could write a sequel based purely on YOUR opinions am sure it would be a best seller you have the answers to EVERYTHING else!

Edited December 26, 2009 by shazzybird

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

My posting was NOT out of order Parsloes, you jump on everything that people say that YOU don't agree with, you obviously was not a Carter fan that is entirely your decision, Like I have said numerous times I don't condone (sp) what he did to his WIFE (there ya go, I mentioned Mrs Carter just for you, as you are complaining I didn't earlier) and then to himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The only person who wants a explanation is YOU AGAIN!!!! because AGAIN you are reading and disecting a posting far too much

 

Work it out for yourself the comment I made, a dead man cannot speak for himself so it's easy to summise, only two people Kenny & his wife (there ya go another mentioned!!) know what happened and the circumstances leading up to it, so STOP DIGGING!

 

Maybe you could write a sequel based purely on YOUR opinions am sure it would be a best seller you have the answers to EVERYTHING else!

 

You don't get it do you..? It's not a matter of shades of opinion, this. It's not about being a "fan" - as you put it - of this man or not being his "fan". It's not a case of "homelife" (sic) versus racing career. It's not about intruding into the personal "circumstances" between husband and wife.

 

It's about the fact that Kenny Carter murdered his wife. Virtually every person in the UK hearing of this event would NOT be saying "ah, well that's a personal matter between him and his wife", anymore than they would if - as happens in all too many households - say that of domestic violence or of any other murder.

Except this is what you are saying. And, as I say, this is not a matter of my opinion over some daft issue differing from yours. I have no opinion on any matter other than one which, as I say, 99.5% of the population would have: that it's not acceptable to shoot dead your partner. I can't believe that you don't share that view, so why to goodness you keep posting to the opposite effect I really couldn't say.

 

My advice is stop thinking everything's an argument and have a look again at what you've posted on three separate occasions now and ask yourself do you REALLY want to be seen as someone who holds these sorts of views...