Speedways Future

[Humphrey Appleby]

Pre BSI, (pre GP system) world finals were held in fields (Norden, Pocking) with a few edited highlights shown a week later.

 

That's the world according to BSI. I certainly remember World Finals being held in the Munich Olympic Stadium, the Ullevi, and the Wroclaw Olympic Stadium during the last years of the one-off final. They went to Pocking and Vojens when the format was run into the ground to justify the introduction of the GP system.

 

It is not the fault of BSI that the british promoters chose to fight the GP system

 

The problem is they (and the Poles and Swedes) didn't fight it enough.

 

[Jeff.]

That's the world according to BSI. I certainly remember World Finals being held in the Munich Olympic Stadium, the Ullevi, and the Wroclaw Olympic Stadium during the last years of the one-off final. They went to Pocking and Vojens when the format was run into the ground to justify the introduction of the GP system.

 

 

 

The problem is they (and the Poles and Swedes) didn't fight it enough.

 

6 of the last 12 finals were in inadequate venues, Norden, Pocking, Bradford & Vojens, are you suggesting this running into the ground took 12 years

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

6 of the last 12 finals were in inadequate venues, Norden, Pocking, Bradford & Vojens, are you suggesting this running into the ground took 12 years

 

Yes - the rot arguably set in with Norden because the Germans thought they were entitled to a World Final, and then we went to Amsterdam because the Dutch wanted one, and finally Vojens because it was run by Ole Olsen. Instead of putting the premier speedway event in worthy venues that were known to draw the crowds, a succession of speedway backwaters basically sucked the life out of it. This was still around the time that some World Finals were drawing up to 50,000 people (at Ullevi, Katowice and Munich), which is still better than Cardiff, and even as late as 1992 there was an capacity attendance of 30,000 at Wroclaw.

 

I'd argue about Bradford being an inadequate venue. It held nearly 30,000 at the time of its World Finals, was in a major albeit unfashionable city (and close to another), and was a better stadium than all but four of the current GPs.

 

And on that note, how many of the current GP venues are better than the World Final venues you mention? Krsko, Daugavpils, Lonigo and Malilla with all due respect are hardly 'adequate' by the standards you set, whilst Prague, Leszno and Bydgoszcz although adequate for the task, are hardly blue riband venues either.

 

In any case, I'm not actually arguing for a return to the old World Final system. I don't have anything against a GP system in principle, but I do have a problem with the ownership (although I've nothing against the owners themselves), and manner in which it's run. I also don't actually think it's promoted as well as people popularly imagine either, but that's another story.

 

[Jeff.]

Yes - the rot arguably set in with Norden because the Germans thought they were entitled to a World Final, and then we went to Amsterdam because the Dutch wanted one, and finally Vojens because it was run by Ole Olsen. Instead of putting the premier speedway event in worthy venues that were known to draw the crowds, a succession of speedway backwaters basically sucked the life out of it. This was still around the time that some World Finals were drawing up to 50,000 people (at Ullevi, Katowice and Munich), which is still better than Cardiff, and even as late as 1992 there was an capacity attendance of 30,000 at Wroclaw.

 

I'd argue about Bradford being an inadequate venue. It held nearly 30,000 at the time of its World Finals, was in a major albeit unfashionable city (and close to another), and was a better stadium than all but four of the current GPs.

 

And on that note, how many of the current GP venues are better than the World Final venues you mention? Krsko, Daugavpils, Lonigo and Malilla with all due respect are hardly 'adequate' by the standards you set, whilst Prague, Leszno and Bydgoszcz although adequate for the task, are hardly blue riband venues either.

 

In any case, I'm not actually arguing for a return to the old World Final system. I don't have anything against a GP system in principle, but I do have a problem with the ownership (although I've nothing against the owners themselves), and manner in which it's run. I also don't actually think it's promoted as well as people popularly imagine either, but that's another story.

 

Ullevi very rarely drew crowds into the 30,000s never mind 50,000, one world final there in the sixties attracted only 22,000.

 

Even Wembley, aside from the first few post war finals and the golden jubilee final in 1978 never drew capacity crowds, the much talked about 92,000 in 1981 was a fallacy, the real crowd was in fact only in the 70,000s. Wembley even had a world final crowd of only 55,000 one year.

 

Of course Polish world finals did attract massive crowds, I believe 133,000 watched the 1973 final in Katowice, and well over 100,00 in 1976 & 1979.

 

Ownership of the rights to the GPs was available to anyone, why didn't the british authorities grasp the opportunity and buy them, instead of sitting, nero fashion, doing nothing while the flagship individual competion fell into disrepair

 

 

 

[olethefod]

Ullevi very rarely drew crowds into the 30,000s never mind 50,000, one world final there in the sixties attracted only 22,000.

 

Even Wembley, aside from the first few post war finals and the golden jubilee final in 1978 never drew capacity crowds, the much talked about 92,000 in 1981 was a fallacy, the real crowd was in fact only in the 70,000s. Wembley even had a world final crowd of only 55,000 one year.

 

Of course Polish world finals did attract massive crowds, I believe 133,000 watched the 1973 final in Katowice, and well over 100,00 in 1976 & 1979.

 

Ownership of the rights to the GPs was available to anyone, why didn't the british authorities grasp the opportunity and buy them, instead of sitting, nero fashion, doing nothing while the flagship individual competion fell into disrepair

 

 

I have to agree with Jeff on crowd numbers, I was at Wembley in the early 80's for european final and around 45 - 50,000 were there, he run off was between Olsen , Mauger, Michenek and Collins to give some idea of the talent on display, so this proves big names only known inside the sport have little impact.

 

To move forward we have to look at the fundementals not start anylising the last ten years, theyre gone and should remain so, when I came back two years ago after a twenty year gap, I couldnt get head around the bike covers, the bikes used to gleam under the lights, they now resemble racing billboards!

 

1. The state of the stadia and entertainment value: When Wolves FC had there stadium go to rack and ruin, the fans left in droves and team fell appart due to lack of funds. Attendances were down to 5,000, inject some cash, build a new stadium, 28,000 watch weekly, teams still rubbish but hey ho!

 

2. Indoor meetings should be at the start and rear of the season therefore protecting the GP from being rained off, not in the warmest time of the year (Denmark and Cardiff)

 

3. Tracks should be covered until two hours before the meeting starts (Who wants to travel 100 miles to be sent home due to drizzle)

 

4. Main one, we have to promote a rider to such a height that everyione wants to know what all the fuss is about and comes to see.

 

5. Races should consist of six laps to try and kill off the first out odf the gate crap that haunts the sport.

 

And finally, stop driving out the top talent with stupid points reductions.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Ownership of the rights to the GPs was available to anyone, why didn't the british authorities grasp the opportunity and buy them, instead of sitting, nero fashion, doing nothing while the flagship individual competion fell into disrepair

 

The British authorities have obviously been losing the plot for years, otherwise the BSI would never have been allowed into the sport in the first place. In any case, I suspect they simply didn't have the money to pay the asking price, which was not especially high, but certainly too high for an organisation whose cupboard was bare.

 

This notwithstanding, I'd still argue the SGP rights were never the FIM's to sell in the first place. The FIM had about 70 members at the time of the sell-off, yet in only about 5 of those countries (Britain, Denmark, Sweden, Poland and Germany) was any significant amount of professional speedway staged. Basically, every professional rider in the sport would have been making their living in those 5 countries, so why on earth should they have to buy back something that they ran and provided the riders for in the first place?

 

I'm sure the FIM would argue it was all very democratic, with the 8 minor speedway nations who stage one meeting a year (plus Poland), outvoting 3 major speedway nations in favour of the SGP, and then having the decision ratified by 50+ nations that have never even staged a single speedway meeting. However, sometimes the democratic process (particularly in international sports bodies) can be a complete ass, and the professional speedway nations should never have stood for it.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Humphrey Appleby

[Humphrey Appleby]

I was at Wembley in the early 80's for european final and around 45 - 50,000 were there

 

Ermm.. but 45-50K is still more than any round of the GP achieves now. Whilst I agree there's no point looking back to the past, I still argue that the nail in the coffin of the World Final was going to tiny venues in smaller speedway nations, when crowds still justified medium-sized venues. Given the enthusiasm of the Ole Olsens and some in the FIM for a GP system, one can only think this was done deliberately.

 

5. Races should consist of six laps to try and kill off the first out odf the gate crap that haunts the sport.

 

Six laps would just make races even more of procession. The fundamental problem is that the tracks are not condusive for overtaking these days; no more so than abominable Olsen-prepared GP surfaces. I have certain sympathy with respect to the difficulties of preparing a decent track in the one-off venues, but there's no excuse for it in the permanent speedway venues that otherwise normally have decent racing.

[olethefod]

Ermm.. but 45-50K is still more than any round of the GP achieves now. Whilst I agree there's no point looking back to the past, I still argue that the nail in the coffin of the World Final was going to tiny venues in smaller speedway nations, when crowds still justified medium-sized venues. Given the enthusiasm of the Ole Olsens and some in the FIM for a GP system, one can only think this was done deliberately.

 

Speedway was live on Terestrial TV then, not hidden away on pay to view, this led to greater advertisement of the fact and larger sponsors, the Mirror used to sponsor a few events, Gulf Oil, where did they all go?

 

 

 

Six laps would just make races even more of procession. The fundamental problem is that the tracks are not condusive for overtaking these days; no more so than abominable Olsen-prepared GP surfaces. I have certain sympathy with respect to the difficulties of preparing a decent track in the one-off venues, but there's no excuse for it in the permanent speedway venues that otherwise normally have decent racing.

 

How many time have we witnessed riders almost tying for first place this year, one more lap?

 

[pudding]

what get me as a supporter of speedway is " a few race's & the track will be good for racing " why the idiot dont they put second half racing on first then , and bed the track in before the main event ????????????????????, is it me ??????

 

the future of british speedway / the way ahead is .................. amatuer speedway

its the only place future riders are going to come from ,,,,,,,,,,

get yourselves to a amateur speedway meeting & support british talent

its free to support & a good day out ( well it is at scunny )

[Mike9]

I would like to see an amalgamation of the Elite and Premier Leagues or at least an equal number of teams in each divison. This season sees 8 teams in the EL which is just not enough variety, plus with the league being "watered" down this year I cannot say that the racing has been any better, infact it has been worse!

 

I'm not sure whether the Promotion & Relegation thing will really work as from what I read most PL promoters don't seem to have the desire to take their team in to the EL even if promotion is achieved. Are some of the GP boys really goner be happy riding PL speedway if their team in relegated? I think not!

 

The introduction of 3 points for an away win this year has it merits and the EL table is currently fairly close, but the aggregate bonus point should have also been retained.

 

On the front of the lack of British talent, it seems to me that it is so increadibly difficult for an anspiring youngster to get in to speedway. Very few clubs these days run open practice or even proper organised second-halfs. The Danes and Swedes are all riding cut down bikes at very young ages so by the time they are 16 or 17 they are way ahead of the British boys (with the exception of young Tai Woffinden who has a huge future ahead of him). I know it is difficult with curfews and noise restrictions etc, but clubs could do more to encourage more home grown talent in to the sport and nurture them through rather than flying in some unknown pole because his average fits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MACK1]

6 of the last 12 finals were in inadequate venues, Norden, Pocking, Bradford & Vojens, are you suggesting this running into the ground took 12 years

Not a direct follow -on to your posting,but it reminded me that I read somewhere in the last few days that a track is being laid at Wembley for car racing.Speedway next?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Even Wembley, aside from the first few post war finals and the golden jubilee final in 1978 never drew capacity crowds, the much talked about 92,000 in 1981 was a fallacy, the real crowd was in fact only in the 70,000s. Wembley even had a world final crowd of only 55,000 one year.

 

Hmm, interesting use of the word "only"!!

70,000 for the '81 WF is pretty darned impressive by any standards; and as you say three years' earlier it was capacity! If its lowest crowd all the yeears the 'Empire Stadium' staged the WF was 55k then I'd say it was a very successful event...

 

Don't know what Cardiff gets for the early season GP round it stages; but IF there was a World Final at Wembley now, I'd anticipate very close to capacity.. After all, if tens of thousands turn up in Cardiff for what is basically an all-but meaningless meeting (e.g Greg Hancock moving aside to let Chris Harris through...: only possible because frankly how much does it matter to Hancock or indeed anyone else that a Brit is allowed to win one round.. ) - then imagine what interest they'd be in a London-staged event where, - shock! horror! - the actual World Championship was up for grabs on the night itself...!

[The Third Man]

Hmm, interesting use of the word "only"!!

70,000 for the '81 WF is pretty darned impressive by any standards; and as you say three years' earlier it was capacity! If its lowest crowd all the yeears the 'Empire Stadium' staged the WF was 55k then I'd say it was a very successful event...

 

Don't know what Cardiff gets for the early season GP round it stages; but IF there was a World Final at Wembley now, I'd anticipate very close to capacity.. After all, if tens of thousands turn up in Cardiff for what is basically an all-but meaningless meeting (e.g Greg Hancock moving aside to let Chris Harris through...: only possible because frankly how much does it matter to Hancock or indeed anyone else that a Brit is allowed to win one round.. ) - then imagine what interest they'd be in a London-staged event where, - shock! horror! - the actual World Championship was up for grabs on the night itself...!

 

or even a cardiff based event where the world championship was up for grabs

 

[speedyguy]

or even a cardiff based event where the world championship was up for grabs

 

 

 

But you will never ever again see a world championship on the old format. GPs are here to stay - the FIM are adamant on that IMO.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

But you will never ever again see a world championship on the old format. GPs are here to stay - the FIM are adamant on that IMO.

 

Which, in this first week of September (for a long time the traditional time to stage the World Final) is a crying shame.

Indeed I'd go as far to say that Speedway in Britain (at least as a major sport) WILL die out as a direct result of the criminal decision made some years back now, to strip the sport of its jewel in the crow;n and relegate us here to merely staging a utterly meaningless early round of the replacement (and hopelessly flawed..) GP series....

[speedyguy]

Which, in this first week of September (for a long time the traditional time to stage the World Final) is a crying shame.

Indeed I'd go as far to say that Speedway in Britain (at least as a major sport) WILL die out as a direct result of the criminal decision made some years back now, to strip the sport of its jewel in the crow;n and relegate us here to merely staging a utterly meaningless early round of the replacement (and hopelessly flawed..) GP series....

 

 

The GP Series of events work in other forms of motorcycle sport - look at the publicity they get. Why do they not work for speedway? The GP format is also the mainstream of Formula One car racing with each round building up tremendous interest.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

The GP Series of events work in other forms of motorcycle sport - look at the publicity they get. Why do they not work for speedway? The GP format is also the mainstream of Formula One car racing with each round building up tremendous interest.

 

But Speedway is an entirely different sport!

Come on JH, you're an old timer (and legendary for your old timer ways... ): I can't believe you don't hanker for those peerless nights at Wembley.

 

I've been privileged to attend many huge sporting events but nothing, literally nothing compares with the take-your-breath-away excitement of the old World Speedway Final (33 years tomorrow- gulp! - since my first one !! )

 

And incidentally, I've not noticed the "GP Series of events... in other forms of motorcycle sport" attracting particularly significant publicity..

Bet you any money a World Speedway Final at the new Wembley and/or the Olympic Stadium would though..!!!

[speedyguy]

But Speedway is an entirely different sport!

Come on JH, you're an old timer (and legendary for your old timer ways... ): I can't believe you don't hanker for those peerless nights at Wembley.

 

I've been privileged to attend many huge sporting events but nothing, literally nothing compares with the take-your-breath-away excitement of the old World Speedway Final (33 years tomorrow- gulp! - since my first one !! )

 

And incidentally, I've not noticed the "GP Series of events... in other forms of motorcycle sport" attracting particularly significant publicity..

Bet you any money a World Speedway Final at the new Wembley and/or the Olympic Stadium would though..!!!

 

 

I fully agree that there was an exceptional magic about attending a Wembley world final. It was indeed a unique speedway experience to attend one. Sadly, I don't think the FIM will ever turn back the clock to the old formula - bodies like that never admit defeat.

 

Elsewhere a Poll is being run on what is favoured by supporters - the old type of world championship or the GPs. At the early count, the old style world championship is way out in front. There's details about it on

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway

 

It's also a Topic in this section of the BSF.

Edited September 5, 2008 by speedyguy

[MattK]

A question for oldies

 

Was the old one-off World Final shown live on TV during the 70s, 80s and early 90s?

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

A question for oldies

 

Was the old one-off World Final shown live on TV during the 70s, 80s and early 90s?

 

Not so much of the "old timers"!!

The 1972 World Speedway Final at Wembley (when, incidentally, I was 12!! ) was shown live on prime time ITV on a Saturday night..!!!

A slot that now would only ever be sacrificed from the stable diet of X-Factor type shows for a very important Football match..: would have to be World Cup or European Championship.

 

So, yes, the answer to your implied question is that the Speedway World Final had a MUCH higher profile than the GP nonsense..!!!

Edited September 6, 2008 by Parsloes 1928 nearly