Nigel Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) Can you dispel the myth of the starting gate for me please as I don't want to perpetuate any myths in my forthcoming Crystal Palace book do I...? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> . The starting gate idea was I believe taken from horse racing. The device was first used in 1897 at Newmarket races but had been used even earlier in the colonies. It is not known who invented the device at the present time. Elasticised webbing was used not tape, in 1929 this was changed to 6 unbreakable ropes, .....pity the poor jockey whose horse was a bit keen! The gate was replaced by stalls in 1965. (Source :-National Horse racing Museum, Newmarket) There is photo of the horsey starting gate in " All Sports Weekly" April 20th 1929. p20. It would appear that Mockford and Shepard adapted and developed the idea for speedway. (thank god they did). If the device had been their invention I feel they would have patented it. The early Speedway gate suffered the same problem as the Horsey version, as it was manually operated jockeys could anticipate the actions of the starter, as can be seen from the well known speedway photo with the starter pulling on the stirrup handle. On the Speedway Star video series' History of Speedway' non other than Peter York mentions the starting gate Idea came from horse racing. Coloured helmet covers were another idea taken from horse racing. Edited August 17, 2007 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Wal Phillips. http://au.msnusers.com/speedwaypeople/shoe...Photo&PhotoID=4 Regards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, But a gent by the name of McAvoy was building laydowns in 1928-9, he was not the only one, cant remember the other chap but a picture of his machine appeared in the motocycle press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Sorry, But a gent by the name of McAvoy was building laydowns in 1928-9, a picture of his machine appeared in the motocycle press. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Anyone got a photo? Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 . The starting gate idea was I believe taken from horse racing. The device was first used in 1897 at Newmarket races but had been used even earlier in the colonies. It is not known who invented the device at the present time. Elasticised webbing was used not tape, in 1929 this was changed to 6 unbreakable ropes, .....pity the poor jockey whose horse was a bit keen! The gate was replaced by stalls in 1965. (Source :-National Horse racing Museum, Newmarket) There is photo of the horsey starting gate in " All Sports Weekly" April 20th 1929. p20. It would appear that Mockford and Shepard adapted and developed the idea for speedway. (thank god they did). If the device had been their invention I feel they would have patented it. The early Speedway gate suffered the same problem as the Horsey version, as it was manually operated jockeys could anticipate the actions of the starter, as can be seen from the well known speedway photo with the starter pulling on the stirrup handle. On the Speedway Star video series' History of Speedway' non other than Peter York mentions the starting gate Idea came from horse racing. Coloured helmet covers were another idea taken from horse racing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Phew! That's a relief. I thought you were going to say it was used at a speedway track somewhere else before Crystal Palace. It is quite clear in the early reports in the Speedway News that they had adopted the idea from horse racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Just seen this linked to from speedwayplus.Interesting article on motorbike racing in Ireland.With an early trotting track meeting 1902 and also plenty of sand racing in 1915-1930's period.Although what sort of sand racing it was....guess some sort of alternative to road racing as it was over very long distances Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Very interesting, iris. Especally this bit: "The first MCUI event was a ‘run’ from Gough Statue in Dublin’s Phoenix Park to Bray, on 20th April 1902, and their first race meeting was on the cinder track at Ashtown Trotting Track, Co Dublin, on 18th October 1902. Bob Stevens was the winner of both the 10 mile handicap and one mile scratch races, riding a Phoenix machine." Cinder track, one mile, 1902!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Very interesting, iris. Especally this bit:..... the 10 mile handicap. Cinder track, 1902!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "10 mile handicap" .... thats a good head start for someone. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) Phew! That's a relief. I thought you were going to say it was used at a speedway track somewhere else before Crystal Palace. Er ...I was not going to mention this ..but there are rumours and I stress 'rumours' that another track in London was experimenting with the idea, but I wont say anything more in case I start a 'myth'. I have no concrete proof only hearsay, so I should stick to plan A . Edited August 18, 2007 by Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 Er ...I was not going to mention this ..but there are rumours and I stress 'rumours' that another track in London was experimenting with the idea. Could it have been Johnnie Hoskins who "invented" the starting gate at West Ham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Come on Brummy Grumpy Nigel. .. give us you 16th sermon. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 (edited) The start of dirt-track/speedway in the USA? There's a photo of a 1923 dirt-track meeting in Indiana on the yahoo site http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway It shows riders racing on a track with spectaors watching from the centre as well as the outside of the track. It's in PHOTOS in the album 'veteran riders pre-1939.' Edited August 24, 2007 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 (edited) Thanks Speedyguy......... Post 1939 Midget Car Speedway, with Ronnie Moore in 1955 & Jack Parker in Sydney, 1954(?) ....... http://sports.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ol...tos/browse/be9c .... and more http://sports.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ol...speedway/photos Regards. PS. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/ Edited August 24, 2007 by Trackman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Come on Brummy Grumpy Nigel. .. give us you 16th sermon. Regards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Слушает, котор Bruce, оно будет Brummie не Brummy, вами австралиец мозга мертво осуждает, идет игра с вашим трактором. Я не говорю вам ничего. Получите с вашего большого австралийского задняя сторона и проведите исследование ваше собственное исследование Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 CHIT! it says it's ticken, not chicken. Regards. PS. Bunker time! (;0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted August 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 (edited) Speedway racing "Generally acknowledged" as one of the most popular ancient sports. Often dangerous to both riders, who frequently suffered serious injury and even death, the sport generated strong spectator enthusiasm comparable to modern-day interest in motor sports. Some of the organizational aspects of the racing also paralleled current practices in professional sports. In teams represented different groups of financial backers and sometimes competed for the services of particularly skilled drivers. These teams became the focus of intense support among spectators, and occasional disturbances broke out between followers of different teams. The conflicts sometimes became politicized, as the sport began to transcend the races themselves and started to affect society overall. This helps explain why the BSPA emperors took control of the teams and appointed many officials to oversee them. The sport faded in importance after that. The race was begun by a procession into the hippodrome, while a herald announced the names of the drivers and owners. The hippodrome at Olympia was about 600 yards long and 300 yards wide. The tethrippon consisted of twelve laps around the hippodrome, with sharp turns around the posts at either end. Various mechanical devices were used, including the starting gates.... ....................... Does speedway teams racing start with Julius Caesar around 50 BC, his track had a length of about 600 metres, or was it..... According to Roman legend, racing was used by Romulus just after he founded Rome in 753 BC..... To me it looks like we started teams racing on two wheels with 4hp, back in 680 BC Regards. PS. If so, is Ben Hur our first world Champion? Edited August 26, 2007 by Trackman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Garrigan Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 (edited) Phil, are you aware that chariot races (proper horse-drawn ones) were once staged as a gimmick at a small track motorcycle race meeting in Australia? It was way back at the time the silent version of the film Ben Hur was released in Australia. Edited September 2, 2007 by Ross Garrigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 G/Day Ross. When you see the chariot riders stance when racing and especially in the turns they look like a speedway rider as they slide around the turns... the "race" itself has a lot of similarities as does the form of power which in its day was the GP class. 4 horse = 4 hp, 4valve .... 3 inlet 1 exhaust... Regards. PS. I can't help thinking, Speedway of some sort has been on earth for a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I can't help thinking, Speedway of some sort has been on earth for a long, long time. You could be right there. Do we really know what Stonehenge was used for??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star ghost Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I thought Stonehenge was an oldtime football pitch which was invented by a bloke down-under and came here in the late 20s. Or was that some other sport???? and I have not read it correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted September 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) Pre Piston Speedway.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF2NAaQyVBk...related&search= Regards. PS. Stonehenge. ... Why do you lot always have small tracks? Edited September 7, 2007 by Trackman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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