History Of Speedway.........

[REBELS77]

I got 9/10 Buster Breaks Beat me aswell

[Trackman]

Fair play to you all for having a go thank you Try this one... Who is he! http://au.msnusers.com/speedwaypeople/shoe...Photo&PhotoID=3

 

Regards.

PS.

I wonder if that look comes with the breast plate?......

[shazzybird]

If Jonnie Hoskins invented Speedway and introduced it to Britain ....then Pigs Fly

 

Who has ever said JH "invented" speedway?

 

ps.... spelling is Johnnie

[Nigel]

Hello shazzy.....spelling !! just a typo

 

In answer to your question.. 'John Stark Hoskins for a start'....his son Ian still swears its true and get very indignant if anyone contradicts this view. Just about every mag, book that has a bit of early speedway history in it repeats this myth. If you 'google' Johnnie Hoskins you will find he is credited with this accolade. Just about every speedway website around the world that has a 'how it all started' section will tell you Hoskins started it all at West Maitland Australia .......its historicaly innacurate, to be polite. Australian historians have been banging their heads against a brick wall for years trying to dispel this myth.

 

He played no part in introducing the sport to GB

 

two more myths that need dispelling are those of High Beech and the 'starting gate'

 

er....er.. is the spelling alright..er.. there's no spell checker on this thing

Edited August 2, 2007 by Nigel

[Trackman]

Wikipedia says..........

The first meeting in the UK is generally acknowledged to have taken place at High Beech on 19 February 1928. There are, however, also claims to have held meetings in 1927 from Camberley in Surrey and Droylsden in Manchester. Despite being described as 'the first British Dirt Track meeting' at the time, the meeting at Camberley on 7 May 1927 differed in that the races were held in a clockwise direction. Races at Droylsden were held in an anti-clockwise direction and this meeting appears to have a strong claim to be the first Speedway meeting in the UK..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedway_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

History Of Dirt Track Racing

 

The Origins Of The Sport – UK, USA Or Australia?

 

The origins of the sport are not entirely crystal clear but it is generally accepted that Australian farmers started it all. They were racing their motorcycles around rough oval dirt tracks during the early 1920s. Early motorcycle owners in the USA can tell a similar story but they did not have a man like Australia's Johnnie Hoskins who had a vision when he watched the farmers racing their motorcycles.

 

In 1923, Johnnie was the secretary of the West Maitland (New South Wales) Agricultural Show. As a "side attraction" to the agricultural show, he introduced motorcycle racing on an oval dirt track under floodlights. Speedway had just been born! From West Maitland it spread across Australia like wildfire. Hoskins the entrepreneur was so keen on promoting the sport he had helped to invent that he soon had ambitions that lay outside Australia. Pound signs were flashing, the UK was beckoning.......

 

http://www.newcastlespeedwayhistory.co.uk/...rack_racing.htm

 

Regards.

[Trackman]

Ian was asked to read this page and given the right of reply. Here is his answer.

 

Dear Max, (Webmaster) http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/Start%20...y%20(world).htm

Further to your excellent article on the alleged origins of speedway racing, I thank you for allowing me the right of reply. I agree that various new 'historians' of the sport have felt it would gain them credit if they could debunk the story that speedway, as we know it today, truly began under my father's banner at West Maitland, NSW, Australia on Sunday, December 15th 1923.

I agree that there were previous isolated motor cycle events that occurred earlier than this in Australia and even America. At least the historians have to be congratulated on their research into newspaper files. But, we may as well go back as far as the Circus Maximus in ancient Rome, where chariot racing was staged before factions of thousands of devoted supporters, who cheered their favorites on to victory in races that were likewise held in an anti-clockwise direction and had chariots broadsiding on the corners.

Unfortunately for these scribes, none of the events they have dug out from the files, led anywhere. Whereas, Johnnie Hoskins was the first promoter to put up a cash reward for the winner at West Maitland, and from the huge turn-out this novel event generated, speedway began to form in Maitland with a cinder track, rules and regulations, and the broadsiding of bikes in the corners. No previous event inspired such a metamorphosis as this. Finally, there was professionalism in speedway, the rider could live from his earnings on the track, and men such as Ron Johnson, Billy Lamont and Vic Huxley, willingly left Australia to try their luck in England in l928.

My father left Maitland in 1925 to open Newcastle where he staged regular weekly meetings and made a packet for the promoters. He decided to go into business for himself and in 1926 ran the big Sydney Royale stadium, where, unfortunately, a very wet season almost ruined him. Undaunted, he went to Perth in Western Australia and opened the Claremont stadium there and began to make a packet. In 1928, he left Perth to go to England and be in at the birth of the sport there, and took two of the great Australian riders with him, Ron Johnson and Billy Lamont.

Johnnie did not have a venue in the UK, until Arthur Elvin in 1929, asked him to run speedway at Wembley. In 1930, the famous Wembley Lions were born and I was invited to ride a miniature motor bike, wearing red leathers at the age of six, to become the world's first motorised speedway mascot. It was in 1930 that league racing began in speedway.

Johnnie Hoskins quit Wembley to re-open West Ham, a promotion that had just gone broke. He at last came into his own as speedway's greatest showman promoter until the war closed the sport in 1939.

Can any other promoter lay down such a valid claim for being the sport's true pioneer? I doubt it, and so do the hundreds of riders and rival promoters of the pre-war and immediate post war era of the sport, when Johnnie remained actively involved as a promoter at Canterbury in Kent, until his death at the age of 95 in 1987. I rest my case.

Ian Hoskins. 20/03/06

 

Regards.

[norbold]

The fact of the matter is that Johnnie Hoskins did not invent speedway whatever he or his son say. Speedway came about like most sports through a gradual process. Before the First World War Americans were racing on small dirt tracks and broadsiding round corners. This continued in to the early 1920s and there is certainly plenty of evidence of dirt track racing on a regular basis in Australia before Johnnie Hoskins' famous meeting in 1923.

 

There is no doubt that Johnnie Hoskins did a lot for the sport. He was a great showman and publicist, but invent it, no!

Edited August 3, 2007 by norbold

[Ross Garrigan]

Well, it's my belief that the first proper speedway meeting in this country with bikes with no brakes, a proper dirt track and broadsiding was the second meeting at High Beech held on 9 April 1928. I don't think Droyslden, Camberley or the first High Beech meeting had any of that.

 

So 1928 it is then!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What may have been regarded as a "dirt track meeting" in the UK in 1927 and 1928 might not be regarded as one today. It all depends on one's interpretation of the term "dirt track". Today the term may mean something completely different to what it meant to those who competed in, or followed, motorcycle racing in Britain in 1927 and 1928.

 

What the term "speedway" means to people today would rule out a lot of pre-1928 small track meetings in Australia. Does that mean they were incorrectly called "speedway meetings" and now should no longer be referred to as such?

 

One point which makes me smile sometimes in regard to comments on what constitutes a "speedway" racing surface is the mention of "a loose" surface. Most people have seen meetings in recent times on surfaces which are far from "loose". Does that mean they weren't "speedway" meetings?

[Ross Garrigan]

Re Trackman's posting on this Forum of the article written by Ian Hoskins which appears on a New Zealand site: -

 

This article is far from historically accurate. The continued displaying of material such as this only serves to perpetuate inaccuracies.

 

Recently a similar item appeared on the Edinburgh site. Just when will people learn to question this sort of material? The one on the Edinburgh site contains one of the worst errors I have ever seen.

[Nigel]

The suggestion that Australian historians are trying to bebunk the Hoskins myth to gain credit is an appaling insult to those who are of unquestionable integrity. Sadly Ian has used this insult on previous occasions. Ian Hoskins should have the good grace to apologise. This attitude of spite does him no credit . Historians are only interesed in the truth. The evidence is there for all to read. How much research has Ian Hoskins done... non I suspect. We are not out to destroy JSH, he was a great showman who did a lot for the sport ...truth is all we are interested in.

 

It is rather sad to see the son of a great showman bitterly sling mud and inaccurate suggestions, instead of rational disscussions based on the written evidence.

 

Correction . sorry Ian wrong again... West Ham was bought by the Wembly management of Sir Athur Elvin who installed Johnnie as manager.

 

Dirt Track racing started in America around the horse trotting tracks, there is literally tons of evidence... any one can find it it they can drag themselves away from the 32 inch plasma screen and the cheap chemical lager.

 

I have evidence of Dirt Track racing around horse trotting tracks in Italy in 1911

 

A J Hunting did more to pioneer the sport than JSH

 

Englands first Dirt Track/Speedway Rider was racing in the USA on Half mile trotting tracks 1922-23.

 

Wikipedia ...that says it all ..information from the highest and most respected accademics in the world

Edited August 3, 2007 by Nigel

[Ross Garrigan]

Re Trackman's posting of the item from the Newcastle site: -

 

From the site: -

 

"In 1923, Johnnie was the secretary of the West Maitland (New South Wales) Agricultural Show. As a "side attraction" to the agricultural show, he introduced motorcycle racing on an oval dirt track under floodlights. Speedway had just been born! From West Maitland it spread across Australia like wildfire. Hoskins the entrepreneur was so keen on promoting the sport he had helped to invent that he soon had ambitions that lay outside Australia. Pound signs were flashing, the UK was beckoning......."

 

In that short extract there are errors. The first time motorcycles raced on the Maitland Showground was NOT as a "side attraction" to the show. That is just another myth.

 

Also, the racing surface was NOT dirt, it was GRASS.

 

What Hoskins staged was a Carnival at which motorcycle racing was just one of the attractions. What took place on that occasion had been happening at other venues in Australia for years - it was nothing new.

[Brian Hamilton]

Being a very modest chap, I really ought not say that I got 10 out 10!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Am I surprised Norbold No!

 

Unfortunately I only got 9

[Nigel]

Naughty , naughty trackman trying to stir things up,

[Nigel]

Trackman ...quote:- The first meeting in the UK is generally acknowledged to have taken place at High Beech on 19 February 1928. end quote .

 

This "Generally acknowledged" statement... used frequently, not just in this situation.... generally acknowleged by who???... "Sun" readers? ....nomads in Outer Mongolia?... the great unwashed? ....those who believe everything they read...those who have not got a clue about history. Those who rely on hearsay.

 

 

 

 

You have started something 'Shazzybird', you have started something Shazzybird,

sorry... You have two minutes... you have two minutes :lol:

Edited August 3, 2007 by Nigel

[Trackman]

Naughty , naughty trackman trying to stir things up,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

I blame Steve Hone.....

Regards.

[norbold]

Trackman ...quote:- The first meeting in the UK is generally acknowledged to have taken place at High Beech on 19 February 1928.  end quote .

 

This  "Generally acknowledged" statement... used frequently, not just in this situation.... generally acknowleged  by who???... "Sun" readers? ....nomads in Outer Mongolia?... the great unwashed? ....those who believe everything they read...those who have not got a clue about history. Those who rely on hearsay.

 

 

I think that's a bit unfair, Nigel. The meeting at High Beech on 19 February IS generally acknowledged to be the first to have taken place in the UK. We know there are a number of rival claims and, as I have said above, I believe the first REAL speedway meeting held in this country was the second meeting at High Beech, but there is no doubt that the 19 February meeting currently holds sway with most people and it was from that meeting that speedway took off in this country. Whenever celebrations are held to mark 50 years, 75 years, or whatever it is, it is always dated from the first High Beech meeting.

[shazzybird]

In answer to your question..  'John Stark Hoskins for a start'....er....er.. is the spelling alright..er.. there's no spell checker on this thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm well aware of his full name but thank you anyway and as I knew the man personally I think it only right to correct you on the spelling!

 

 

Johnnie remained actively involved as a promoter at Canterbury in Kent, until his death at the age of 95 in 1987. I rest my case.

Ian Hoskins. 20/03/06

 

Regards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And very proud we were to have him as our promoter, Johnnie and his wife became very good friends of my grandparents and when my Uncle rode for him at Canterbury he could not do enough for him and his team mates.

 

 

You have started something 'Shazzybird', you have started something Shazzybird,

sorry... You have two minutes... you have two minutes :lol: 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Errrrrrr no you started it by your quote ..... I just commented because I thought you were dis-respecting one of the most loved characters within Speedway. Then again if you never had the pleasure of meeting him you wouldn't know that would you (Bearing in mind I don't know if you did or didn't meet him)

 

As far as history goes Norbold is my man for that (or KevH he's pretty clever to) and I tend to believe whatever he discovers and as we have been over this one in the past I accept what he said.

[Ross Garrigan]

Hello shazzybird; we have spoken previously about your interest in Johnnie Hoskins. Were you aware of his role in the first tour of Australia by an team of English speedway riders? The item is on the site - the link is below.

 

http://www.ausm.info/aus_history/eng_tour/part1.htm

[Nigel]

Sorry Norman, It was a bit tongue in cheek, pity we dont have a smily with a tongue in its cheek! but I object to the use of the phrase 'generally accepted' as though this justifies and legitimises a statment/truth/Fact/hearsay.

This phrase does not indicate fact, it indicates belief (IMO). Should something be 'generally accepted' even if the facts fed to the "general" (IMO) are incorect.?

 

It was once 'generally accepted' the world was flat!

 

Shazzy I am not the least bit bothered about being pulled up for spellling I was just joking, how many smilies do I have to use?.. again 'You have started something' was another joke, with the greatest of respect a sense of humour is a great asset.

 

I have never shown disrespect to JSH I have always said he was a great show man and did much for the sport. I have never questioned JSH's contribution to speedway.

 

The truth is not disrespectful.

 

I view history objectivley, not with bias because I am emotionaly involved.

 

Who you choose as your history guru is your business.

 

Quote:-As far as history goes Norbold is my man for that (or KevH he's pretty clever to) and I tend to believe whatever he discovers and as we have been over this one in the past I accept what he said. -: end quote.

 

Apparently you are not above being disrespectful or insulting to someone you do not know either? ...... people in glass houses etc

 

"Kev H is pretty clever" ..WOW!! perhaps I should pay him homage ...bow to this Master of History? ........

 

(sorry KevH definitely no offence meant)

 

I already pay homage to the great East Saxon scribe 'Norbold' I buy his books!!

Edited August 3, 2007 by Nigel

[shazzybird]

Sorry Norman, It was a bit tongue in cheek, pity we dont have a smily with a tongue in its cheek!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Try this one it usually works

 

Quote:-As far as history goes Norbold is my man for that (or KevH he's pretty clever to) and I tend to believe whatever he discovers and as we have been over this one in the past I accept what he said. -: end quote.

 

Apparently you are not above being disrespectful or insulting to someone you do not know either? ...... people in glass houses etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm sorry if you found my posting towards you dis-respectful it wasn't meant to be just thought your quote was a little bit naughty

 

"Kev H is pretty clever" ..WOW!! perhaps I should pay him homage ...bow to this Master of History?  ........

 

(sorry KevH definitely no offence meant)

 

I already pay homage to the great East Saxon scribe 'Norbold'  I buy his books!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

When it comes to stats Kev is on the ball, sorry to bring you into this Kev

 

As far as Norbolds books go I have a fair view as well so we do have something in common after all