The New Scoring System

[Kev78]

The idea of the riders keeping their points from the qualifying heats is good. However as the organisers are determined to use the placings from the final to decide the podium then the points system just needs to be slightly altered. Riders in the final should get 25, 20, 18 or 16 points depending on their position. All other riders can keep their points from their qualifying rides along with their semi final point if they got one.

 

At least that way we could avoid the farcical situation of a rider who didn't even make the final scoring more points than the rider who finished 'second.'

[NJT]

I do not understand how the system is place is viewed as farcical. I am sure the opposite would be being said if the previous system was in place and Hans had more than tripled his score from the heats.

 

The previous system did not encourage racing as riders knew that 5 2nds would comfortably put them in the semi's, the semis were worth nothing and then a huge jump in points in the final.

 

The new system makes every race count and every point scored count, surely this has got to encourage racing and overtaking!

[Rob B]

i have not bothered to read all the gp rules,because as i have said before i am LAZY LAZY LAZY,however i did think they were fairly basic and that i had the full grasp of them.

but was completely shocked,when hans got 2nd choice in the final,surely that totally flies in the face,of the"get what you deserve" rules,that appear to be in place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Confused me too, have they changed the rules in regards the pick of gates in the final?

The last few years they were done in order of points socred in

qualifying heats but last night they seemed to be done on semi final

position with Andersen having second pick?

[barrow boy]

The idea of the riders keeping their points from the qualifying heats is good. However as the organisers are determined to use the placings from the final to decide the podium then the points system just needs to be slightly altered. Riders in the final should get 25, 20, 18 or 16 points depending on their position. All other riders can keep their points from their qualifying rides along with their semi final point if they got one.

 

At least that way we could avoid the farcical situation of a rider who didn't even make the final scoring more points than the rider who finished 'second.'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly

[barrow boy]

I do not understand how the system is place is viewed as farcical.  I am sure the opposite would be being said if the previous system was in place and Hans had more than tripled his score from the heats.

 

The previous system did not encourage racing as riders knew that 5 2nds would comfortably put them in the semi's, the semis were worth nothing and then a huge jump in points in the final.

 

The new system makes every race count and every point scored count, surely this has got to encourage racing and overtaking!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But every race would count anyway because every rider should do their best and keep trying to hopefully make the last 8. Look what happened last night. Several riders were in with a shout at the end even having only scored 6 points. Whatever happened to the good old trusted and completely fair run off deciders?

[Gambo]

Confused me too, have they changed the rules in regards the pick of gates in the final?

The last few years they were done in order of points socred in

qualifying heats but last night they seemed to be done on semi final

position with Andersen having second pick?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Rule has been changed this year.

Snipped from The Rule Book: (Which is available for download on the FIM Web Site)

http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=30#

077.8.1 Individual Speedway World Championship Grand Prix Format

Riders' gate positions for The Big Final (Heat 23) will be chosen by the

participating riders prior to the Heat in the order of their finishing place in the

Semi-Finals, the two winners have first and second choice. The two second

placed riders have third and fourth choice. The draw order of the two

winners and the two second placed riders shall be determined by their total

race points scored, including the points they scored in the Semi-Finals.

The rider with the highest number of points having the first choice, and

so on.

 

 

ATB

 

Dave

[kyra]

i like the new scoring system better and its easier to explain to the kids

 

Gambo i hope u weren't sponsoring sam ermolenko for the number of mentions for kandysoft last night LOL

[stuart road]

The Rule has been changed this year.

Snipped from The Rule Book: (Which is available for download on the FIM Web Site)

http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=30#

077.8.1 Individual Speedway World Championship Grand Prix Format

Riders' gate positions for The Big Final (Heat 23) will be chosen by the

participating riders prior to the Heat in the order of their finishing place in the

Semi-Finals, the two winners have first and second choice. The two second

placed riders have third and fourth choice. The draw order of the two

winners and the two second placed riders shall be determined by their total

race points scored, including the points they scored in the Semi-Finals.

The rider with the highest number of points having the first choice, and

so on.

ATB

 

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

to be honest dave,i dont have a problem with the new system,in fact i feel its a better way to go,but the concept of it is, you get what you deserve at the end, from all races.its seems odd to me, that they would give a rider who got into the semi's with a derisory 6 points,second choice in the final,on the basis of one ride.

 

 

as it happens in the semis crump(second choice) took gate three,and harris(second choice)took gate four,so it is quite likely in this instance,that even if hans chose last,he would have still ended up with gate two.

but under different circumstances gate choice could be imperative.

 

it just seems to me a rule,which is in exact contrast to the main concept of the new regulations.

[kindred2005]

i think the points system this year is really good. someone mentioned that someone who didnt even make the final could score more than someone who comes second, but that is the point of this system isnt it?

 

let me explain what i mean:

 

say rider A gets a 15 point max from his 5 rides, then blows an engine on the last straight while leading the semi. he misses out on the final and stays on 15.

 

now, rider B sneaks into the semi with a paltry 6 points (that means that rider A who scored 15 was 2 and a half times better than him during the meeting!!), is in third place, miles behind rider A, then comes second after being lucky as rider A had engine failure, then makes a good start and wins the final.

 

if the winner of the final got 25 points then rider B would have ended up with an extra 10 points for the meeting than rider A. Obviously this would be very unfair as rider A had been untouchable and only a blown engine ruined his perfect score.

 

With the current system rider B would have scored 6+2+6 for a total of 14, this is a much fairer score as had rider A not blown his engine rider B would have finished on 7, so rider B can now be happy that he was lucky enough to double his score.

 

I do accept that if a rider goes through the card every meeting it can mean he ends up well in front of the rest of the pack quite early on, but every system is goin to have its downside.

 

I believe this seasons scoring system is goin to be very exciting, even if Nicki does pull away the rest of the top 8 or even 10 could be quite close, harris is only 3 points behind the world champion!!!!!!!!

[Gambo]

i like the new scoring system better and its easier to explain to the kids

 

Gambo i hope u weren't sponsoring sam ermolenko for the number of mentions for kandysoft last night LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That man Sam is a STAR!!

 

 

ATB

 

Dave

[fatface]

After being completely against it at first, I have to say, hands up , I'm coming round to it. Every race does have real meaning now. You felt that every time Crump and Pedersen lined up in the same race, it really meant something.

 

Whereas in recent years, riders were happy to drift towards 10/11 points to secure a semi berth, they are now hungry for every point. Even if Nicki is running away with it, I don't blame the new system. The points gap is a reflection of how dominant he has been....so far....

[manchesterpaul]

After being completely against it at first, I have to say, hands up , I'm coming round to it.  Every race does have real meaning now.  You felt that every time Crump and Pedersen lined up in the same race, it really meant something. 

 

Whereas in recent years, riders were happy to drift towards 10/11 points to secure a semi berth, they are now hungry for every point.  Even if Nicki is running away with it, I don't blame the new system.  The points gap is a reflection of how dominant he has been....so far....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If only the one major fault had not been included, that of double points for the final. Pedersen would have 6 points less and only be 7 in front.

 

As the series progress further down the line and you compare it to previous seasons, i think it will be seen that more riders have a genuine reason to carry on racing hard. Be that battling for a rostrum place or a top eight finish.

 

The only offending digit being that sore thumb that sticks out unbalancing the top end of the field whenever a rider should win a couple of GP's.

[Liverstam]

If only the one major fault had not been included, that of double points for the final. Pedersen would have 6 points less and only be 7 in front.

 

As the series progress further down the line and you compare it to previous seasons, i think it will be seen that more riders have a genuine reason to carry on racing hard. Be that battling  for a rostrum place or a top eight finish.

 

The only offending digit being that sore thumb that sticks out unbalancing the top end of the field whenever a rider should win a couple of GP's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not so sure it's a major fault or indeed a fault at all. Granted the way it has turned out Nicki is a little too far ahead already, but it would be strange if there was nothing extra (points-wise) to go for in the final. Against the performances of Nicki so far (13 wins out of 14) there is not much to do. I think overall it's an improvement with every heat counting which makes the whole GP more exciting, whereas before there were some dead heats. Ofcourse it is a little strange that the winner doesn't necessarily walk away with the most points, but I'm not sure that's always very fair either.

[manchesterpaul]

I'm not so sure it's a major fault or indeed a fault at all. Granted the way it has turned out Nicki is a little too far ahead already, but it would be strange if there was nothing extra (points-wise) to go for in the final. Against the performances of Nicki so far (13 wins out of 14) there is not much to do. I think overall it's an improvement with every heat counting which makes the whole GP more exciting, whereas before there were some dead heats.

 

The extra incentive is already enough without double points. A possibility to earn three more points that twelve other riders can't. Similar just reward in the semi-finals. Riders are encouraged in their normal five heats as well now.

 

No taking the night off in the early stages. Imagine in years to come when the title is won by only a handful of points. The losing riders will be thinking back regretfully if, at any stage in any meeting, they eased their foot off the gas.

 

It gives a truer picture of a champion when everything they do goes towards, or against, them in the final reckoning.

 

Of course it is a little strange that the winner doesn't necessarily walk away with the most points, but I'm not sure that's always very fair either.

 

It's not such a sin.

 

The aim of the series is to establish a champion over an extended time scale, similar to a 'league' season in most sports. It is not a one-off event like the previous World Finals or 'cup finals' in sports generally. Both of the latter produce out of the blue over performances and under performances that mean the true champion is not recognized. This is more significant a factor in a sport such as speedway with falls and mechanical failures.

 

Under my revised version, as in the new, you will get the occasional glitch where the winner of the final 'leg' of the meeting does not gain the most from the 'tie'. That is hardly unique and happens on a massive and frequent scale in every sport in the world. How so?, any sport that has a 'tie' over two 'legs' will have, as an example, a team losing the first match away 2-0 but then winning the 'final' leg at home 1-0. Who gets the overall victory?, rightly so, the one who has performed the best over the whole 'series'.

 

Whilst Nicki Pedersen has been worth his victories, would it be right that after a single GP (the first), the gap between himself and the fourth rider was 12 points. Under my 3-2-1-0 it would have stood at 4. Over 11 meetings that sort of gap is going to be far, far better in retaining people's interest in a series.

 

Also, it's not being unduly mean by restricting the gap, as it really makes a rider have to be on top form all year. At the present 6 points a win, over the season it will allow riders to have a couple of really poor meetings.

 

If you feel you've just got to give something extra to the guy who wins the final, then bump up the prize money to a far larger percentage of the total prize purse available at present.

 

So, there you go, as they say in these parts up here, all aspects sorrr...tid,.

Edited May 15, 2007 by manchesterpaul

[Liverstam]

The extra incentive is already enough without double points. A possibility to earn three more points that twelve other riders can't. Similar just reward in the semi-finals. Riders are encouraged in their normal five heats as well now.

 

No taking the night off in the early stages. Imagine in years to come when the title is won by only a handful of points. The losing riders will be thinking back regretfully if, at any stage in any meeting, they eased their foot off the gas.

 

It gives a truer picture of a champion when everything they do goes towards, or against, them in the final reckoning.

It's not such a sin.

 

The aim of the series is to establish a champion over an extended time scale, similar to a 'league' season in most sports. It is not a one-off event like the previous World Finals or 'cup finals' in sports generally. Both of the latter produce out of the blue over performances and under performances that mean the true champion is not recognized. This is more significant a factor in a sport such as speedway with falls and mechanical failures.

 

Under my revised version, as in the new, you will get the occasional glitch where the winner of the final 'leg' of the meeting does not gain the most from the 'tie'. That is hardly unique and happens on a massive and frequent scale in every sport in the world. How so?, any sport that has a 'tie' over two 'legs' will have, as an example, a team losing the first match away 2-0 but then winning the 'final' leg at home 1-0. Who gets the overall victory?, rightly so, the one who has performed the best over the whole 'series'.

 

Whilst Nicki Pedersen has been worth his victories, would it be right that after a single GP (the first), the gap between himself and the fourth rider was 12 points. Under my 3-2-1-0 it would have stood at 4. Over 11 meetings that sort of gap is going to be far, far better in retaining people's interest in a series.

 

Also, it's not being unduly mean by restricting the gap, as it really makes a rider have to be on top form all year. At the present 6 points a win, over the season it will allow riders to have a couple of really poor meetings.

 

If you feel you've just got to give something extra to the guy who wins the final, then bump up the prize money to a far larger percentage of the total prize purse available at present.

 

So, there you go, as they say in these parts up here, all aspects sorrr...tid,.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You build a good case and obviously you have spent more time thinking about this issue than me. Hence, I'm starting to sway and I think you probably are correct. Top post!

[newbieoldboy]

Well said ManchesterPaul,

Already this year the results are showing how much better the new system of scoring is over the old one.

[manchesterpaul]

So now we just have to use our brain power to come up with a better version of levelling out the playing field/racing track in league matches. On another forum of course

 

There must be a more satisfactory solution than the recent and current tactical/replacement/handicap/joker schemes.

[Mad Mitch]

Maybe a format of 16 riders 5 rides each rider meets every other rider, the top scorer after 20 heats is the winner. Whats so complicated about that ?

[manchesterpaul]

Maybe a format of 16 riders 5 rides each rider meets every other rider, the top scorer after 20 heats is the winner.  Whats so complicated about that ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I take it you also mean for all points scored to count towards riders total in the series as a whole. Whilst tradition isn't always a bad thing to hold on to the old system doesn't appeal on several accounts.

 

A problem with the standard individual format is there can be up to the last three races having no great importance. Certainly, on the night as each race goes by more and more riders are out of the reckoning for the top places. Whilst, all points would ultimately count towards the end of season total, it would remove a considerable amount of full effort being put in to all races in the latter stages of a meeting. With the new system, riders who have only scored six points after four rides, will still be putting their all into the last race. They know that there are further points to be gained by squeezing into the top eight. That means that a rider will not, on the whole, be coming up against an opponent who has no interest in racing hard.

[Mad Mitch]

If the money for scoring even 1 point is correct then keeping riders competitive in the last few heats won,t be a problem.

 

 

Is the money for points scored known to speedway fans ?

Edited May 16, 2007 by Mad Mitch