Img - Future Grand Prix Locations

[Subedei]

It's equality that's lacking, rather than top end quality. After all, Messrs Crump, Adams, Nicki P and Andersen all ride in the UK. But there's a yawning gulf between them and some of the other riders in teams. But this is about the GPs, where there's also a gulf between the riders. That's why the same 5-6 riders have claimed the top positions for the last 3-4 years.

[spiegal]

It's equality that's lacking, rather than top end quality. After all, Messrs Crump, Adams, Nicki P and Andersen all ride in the UK. But there's a yawning gulf between them and some of the other riders in teams. But this is about the GPs, where there's also a gulf between the riders. That's why the same 5-6 riders have claimed the top positions for the last 3-4 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The same reason why Chelsea,Man Utd,Arsenal etc etc thrive at the top o Footie.

 

It thus does not follow that the game is any better at that level,its just teh craem coming to the top.

 

But eat to much cream and in teh end you grow sick of it.

 

Speedway is like food...vary it as much as possible to get a quality diet.

[Fingersfin]

I think IMGs involvement can only be a good thing, they are massive and are sure to open commericial doors previously closed to BSI.

 

The future for British Speedway, I think depends on the prize money.

 

Should these guys start to earn the money they deserve from the grand prixs then the incentive to cut down on their league commitments is obvious.

 

So which league would win out?

 

Can't see it being the Elite league, with the different race nights, unique tracks and poorer pay!

 

Why bother!

 

Will be sad to see but could prove the saviour for British speedway talent, however will Sky stick around?

Edited April 17, 2007 by Fingersfin

[Kevin Meynell]

I know the series being expanded is a terrible thing isn't it?

 

Sometimes less is actually more, and expansion is not always good for a sport. Speedway has about three 'big' markets, and maybe three or four others where it's followed to any extent, and that's it. Just where are all these extra rounds going to be held?

 

Okay, maybe Australia could hold a round, and possibly the US at a push, but I can't really see anywhere else in Europe where a GP is going to be a success in the long-term. In other words, if the SGP is to expand significantly, some countries are going to need to stage several rounds which will very much reduce the appeak of the existing GPs.

 

Thousands more people watching our world championship in person

 

Really? The only round that draws in spectators in huge (for speedway) numbers is the 'showcase' GP at Cardiff (with the suspiciously round figure of 40,000). The rounds at Wroclaw and Copenhagen are reasonably well attended (at 24,000 and 24,892 respectively), and the one at Bydgoszcz (17,000) is acceptable. However, every other round was sub-10,000, with Lonigo only drawing 4,500 (again a suspiciously round figure).

 

Even the last World Finals managed to better these figures, and frankly the attendances at most of the pre-BSI SGP rounds probably weren't any worse either. Therefore, where is the evidence that more people are actually watching in person?

 

Okay, you can reasonably argue that the SGP has exposed the sport to more television viewers, but how many of them actually then go their local tracks? It doesn't really matter how many people watch if the revenue generated never finds it's way to the tracks who produce and provide most of the GP riders with a living.

 

An expansion of the SGP is only likely to cause even more problems for the national leagues, but the upside is that it might start bringing-it into conflict with the powerful Polish League. Riders might eschew Britain, but I'm sure they'll be reluctant to give-up the rich pickings to be had in Poland.

 

Hurry up, it might not be too late for IMG. The fools think they've bought a successful sporting product which has potential to grow.

 

Sport is full of bankrupted 'rights holders' who over-expanded into sports they didn't understand. ISL (former holders of the FIFA World Cup rights) is the most classic example, but there are others.

 

I imagine IMG has bought into the SGP to provide cheap television programming for their Trans-World Sport programs, and we can expect speedway to take it's place in the schedules alongside prestigious sports such as mountain biking and triathlon.

[fatface]

Good to see you here Kevin. I know from the past, we don't agree on the GPs. But at least you put together a valid argument...

 

On the crowds issue, I don't have evidence, others on here clearly don't. But with a broader series, I suspect there are more paying customers through the GP turnstiles in total and our biggest ones are consistently attracting good crowds.

 

No doubt about it we do have our 'showcase' GPs where crowds are very healthy and some where the crowds are not so good. From my experience, I'd suggest other major series have the same issue. I've been to a packed Formula One GP in Australia...I've also been to a sparsely attended Superbike GP in Qatar.

 

Some of the GPs are clearly 'crowbarred' in for TV purposes. But I do think it's very important for the sport to have a regular TV slot, so that everyone knows that every other Saturday, April-Sept is Speedway GP night. I'm not big on F1, but I know there will be another GP coming up a week on Sunday, cos there was one last Sunday. This is just good marketing and is what is needed if speedway is to become a big sport.

 

As for the British leagues, it is up to the British promoters to get together and find how they can promote the sport better around the GPs and not compete with them (as some are suggesting). The best and most ambitious riders will always choose the GP over the EL. Sweden and Poland find it easy to fit around the GPs and still have successful leagues. Why can't we?

 

I do feel we are slowly learning though. The sport has learned from the GPs. Air fences, start girls and better meeting climaxes are all GP-led innovations taken into the EL. We need a single (and one alternate) EL race day, better stadiums and greater innovation to get top riders and more spectators back into British speedway.

 

As for IMG's take-over. I know you felt the GP "circus" could not last. Even you must be having doubts about the viability of SGP in light of this development? I have serious doubts that they would buy a sporting product in order to shrink it into a minor sports programme. You don't truly think that do you? I think you're grasping straws there mate. It's not as if Mountain biking and Triathlon had prime time live Saturday night coverage, so to pigeon hole them with speedway is a little odd.

 

I think they've seen something, which if promoted right, can get up there with Superbikes, MotoGP, NASCAR as a major motorsports series. Plus, speedway offers a spectator experience that none of the others can match and is ready-made for TV with breaks in the action. Maybe it's not the norm on the forum, but I for one, am feeling pretty optimistic.

 

ps. Can't discuss at this length again...your lengthy posts always demand a lengthy reply. But, I do have a job you know! Maybe discuss it over a pint at Cardiff?

Edited April 18, 2007 by falcace

[Guest Schumi]

I'm not big on F1, but I know there will be another GP coming up a week on Sunday, cos there was one last Sunday.  This is just good marketing and is what is needed if speedway is to become a big sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a 4 week break at the moment. Next race is in Spain on May 13th.

[fatface]

There's a 4 week break at the moment. Next race is in Spain on May 13th.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then that's bad marketing.

[Kevin Meynell]

I'm not big on F1, but I know there will be another GP coming up a week on Sunday, cos there was one last Sunday.

 

F1 is a slightly different kettle of fish because you can only watch the F1 drivers in that series (although it wasn't always the case). It's also self-sustaining, and has the patronage, largely for historical reasons, of the great and the good.

 

By contrast, league speedway is held in several countries on a regular basis, and indeed provides the bulk of the earnings of the SGP riders. In fact, without the professional leagues, it's fair to say there probably wouldn't be a SGP.

 

As for the British leagues, to, it is up to the British promoters to get together and find how they can promote the sport better around the GPs and not compete with them (as some are suggesting).

 

In the SGP can become the main source of riders' income, or self-sustaining, then fair enough. Otherwise there needs to be a happy balance between the SGP and leagues who pay the wages.

 

The sport has learned from the GPs. Air fences, start girls and better meeting climaxes are all GP-led innovations taken into the EL.

 

I wouldn't disagree that the SGP has given us a glimpse of how things might be better, but I don't think it's been massively innovative. It really only looks good because the rest of speedway is so bad.

 

As for IMG's take-over.  I know you felt the GP "circus" could not last. Even you must be having doubts about the viability of SGP in light of this development?

 

I don't think I said it wouldn't last. I said that it was unlikely to become a full-time series, or expand as much as people were claiming. Several years later, I think I've been proved correct as we still have an entirely European-based SGP that relies on 'borrowing' riders from other competitions, an SGP that still largely takes place in small stadiums in obscure places, and a reversion to a 16-rider competition using a 70-year-old format.

 

I have serious doubts that they would buy a sporting product in order to shrink it into a minor sports programme.

 

Speedway is already a minor sport, akin to ski-jumping and other sports that are popular in a select number of countries. Eurosport fodder I call it .

 

I think they've seen something, which if promoted right, can get up there with Superbikes, MotoGP, NASCAR as a major motorsports series.

 

I hope so, but time will tell...

 

I remember similar hype when BSI took over the SGP, but did they really take the sport to another level? IMG has been on a vast spending spree recently, acquiring all sorts of weird and wonderful things. I hope they know what they're doing, but all sorts of companies often start losing their way when their founders relinquish control (or die, as was the case with Mark McCormack).

Edited April 18, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[fatface]

I've been suckered in again..

 

Think you're being a bit unfair with your cleverly editing of quotes. Wasn't comparing F1 to speedway as a sport at all. Which is pretty obvious from my full posting. I was comparing marketing strategies. ie F1 every other Sunday in summer, speedway every other Saturday in summer...

 

As for have BSI taken the sport to a new level? Yes, I would say so. Not exactly where I would like it be. I love it and wish it was at an even higher level. I think we all do. But don't tell me 11 rounds compared to 6, Cardiff compared to Hackney, Parken compared to Vojens, Gelsenkirchen compared to Pocking isn't progress. Credit where credit's due.

Edited April 18, 2007 by falcace

[Subedei]

But don't tell me 11 rounds compared to 6, Cardiff compared to Hackney, Parken compared to Vojens, Gelsenkirchen compared to Pocking isn't progress.  Credit where credit's due. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which just shows you prefer style over substance - the Hackney track was superior to the Cardiff track, the Vojens track is better than the Parken track and it's likely that the Pocking track will be superior to the Gelsenkirchen track.

[Meowmix]

GP's held at Hackney weren't all that. Vojens track prepared for the danes by the danes, apart from the 1994 WF I've never seen a good meeting there, and I take it you've never been to Pocking!

 

Man made tracks aren't ideal, but I think more could be done with them. Olsen has a tunnel vision view on how tracks should be prepared - look at how he's screwed the track at the Marketa and the Polish tracks for instance.

 

He needs to have less input into the track prep and let the people who prepare tracks weekly at clubs around Europe do their thing. That goes for the man made tracks too.

[Kevin Meynell]

I've been suckered in again..

 

Well, it would be a boring forum otherwise.

 

Cardiff compared to Hackney, Parken compared to Vojens, Gelsenkirchen compared to Pocking isn't progress.

 

Bydgoszcz compared with Katowice, Målilla and Eskilstuna compared with Ullevi, Lonigo compared with errr.. Lonigo.

[Subedei]

Man made tracks aren't ideal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the absence of a geographical feature called a "speedway track" we must assume that all such things are man made.

Anyway, as usual, the Meynell has made some excellent points. The GPs have shrunk to a 16 rider line-up and in 2007 the winner of the GP might not necessarily score the most points from that GP. Indeed, it's theoretically possible for a rider to win each and every single GP and still not be world champion. Unlikely, granted, but possible. And that's progress?

BSI - IMG now, I guess - are having to fork over £100,000 to the winner of the German GP in a desperate bid to drum up interest and stop it flopping.

IMG have bought in haste and may be left to repent at their leisure.

[Meowmix]

In the absence of a geographical feature called a "speedway track" we must assume that all such things are man made. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Some people can be so pedantic!

 

BSI - IMG now, I guess - are having to fork over £100,000 to the winner of the German GP

 

It's around £50k actually - drop in the ocean for IMG.

[fatface]

Agree with some of the points above. I do not think the GPs are absolutely perfect, far from it. The points system for 2007 is very silly indeed. Temporary tracks have been hit or miss (as have some full-time tracks).

 

We can all nit-pick and make the GPs look very, very good or very, very bad depending on the evidence you select (and some people are very selective indeed). But I think if you look at the whole picture, the GPs are heading in the right direction.

 

Some great venues (some not so good, but our last few World Final venues and the early GP ones were all poor), good presentation at the events and excellent TV coverage. It's expanded and evolved, this year we should have a great finale no matter what and in future years we have a truly global company behind the sport to take it on again. Good no?

Edited April 18, 2007 by falcace

[manchesterpaul]

Who in their right mind supports a team full of Poles/Swedes/Danes/Americans etc who have no allegience whatsoever to their side.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Premier League football clubs, along with other sports, seem to do well with sell-out matches. Look how many times Arsenal and Chelsea have fielded sides without a single englishman in them. The majority of the players on the field are not english.

 

Incidentally, i think we often tend to judge all sports, by the attendances in England of our national sport of football.

 

I've often thought what's the big deal about five figure attendances at polish speedway or three or four thousand at other european meetings. However, football crowds can be stunningly low outside of Germany, Italy, Spain and France. In such situations speedway can compare favourably against them.

Edited April 18, 2007 by manchesterpaul

[manchesterpaul]

Returning to the topics title, i'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Middle East. I don''t mean Baghdad or Beriut.

 

If i remember rightly, just before the Oil Crisis, there was an attempt to promote speedway in the Gulf countries. I'm pretty sure it had it's spectacular moments and looked very promising. Only for the Oil Crisis to rear it's head and put a stop to the efforts. I've often wondered why nobody has tried to promote there since.

[fatface]

touched upon here manchesterpaul...

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=31936

 

Adding to that, a GP in Doha would be do-able. But I think Dubai would be a better bet. Lots of ex-pats with plenty of disposable income who love a good event. Things like the Dubai Desert Classic Golf and Dubai Rugby Sevens are big hits, SGP could be too. Fairly certain they have suitable stadiums, but not 100% sure....

[Grachan]

I did see the 'Far East' mentioned too in Speedway Star, which I suppose could mean places like China (Hong Kong?) or Japan. I'm sure there would be a massive market in these places if it was promoted well.

[Bavarian]

Singapore and/or Malaysia