Crystal Palace

[Guest Donsking]

Hi all

 

I've been asked by my local historical society to find out what I can about Crystal Palace Glaziers, so my first stop is the collective brain cell of the BSF!

 

So, can anyone fill in any details about the team, like what periods they raced in, were they any good etc.?

 

Any info gratefully received

 

Cheers

[speedyguy]

Hi all

 

I've been asked by my local historical society to find out what I can about Crystal Palace Glaziers, so my first stop is the collective brain cell of the BSF!

 

So, can anyone fill in any details about the team, like what periods they raced in, were they any good etc.?

 

Any info gratefully received

 

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Track opened 1928, in various leagues from 1928 to 1933. Then ran open meetings until 1939 when back in league. Last meeting at Easter 1940 when Bill Longley won the London Championship (so I understand) and Keith Harvey set the last track record for the circuit. In 1934 and 1935, then again in 1938, the track was used for midget car racing. No other real details about the track.

[star ghost]

The late Lionel Crossley did a good book on the history of the Palace and Norman Jacobs covered them in his History of London Speedway. Both books are still around for purchase I think. Dont forget to contact Norman for peermission to quote his work.

Any team that included Ron Johnson in its side was good.

Edited November 5, 2006 by star ghost

[Shaledodger]

Any team that included Ron Johnson in its side was good.

 

Except, sadly, Edinburgh in 1960.

[speedyguy]

Except, sadly, Edinburgh in 1960.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sadly, there were underlying reasons for this, as have been well documented many times in magazines like the VSM.

 

Basically, Johnno should nevre have been relicenced to ride after his terrible crash at Wimbledon in 1949.

 

At his peak, he was one of the all-time greats of speedway racing.

[speediebee]

Except, sadly, Edinburgh in 1960.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1960? Are we talking about a different Ron Johnson here?

[norbold]

Same Ron Johnson. He was in his 50s by then.

 

I have lots of info on Crystal Palace, Donsking. Perhaps we could get together in the Eggheads studio...or alternatively, I can e-mail you info. Is there anything in particular you want to know or is it just general?

[Graham]

I've got an excellent book called Racing at Crystal Palace by Philip Parfitt.

 

Published in the early 1990s, it concentrates mainly on motor racing and motorcycle road racing, but it does have a full chapter devoted to speedway.

 

Might be worth looking on Amazon for it if you're interested. It's a first class motorsport book.

 

Graham.

[speedyguy]

The first Crystal Palace team in 1929, named for the Southern League was:

 

Triss Sharp (captain), George Lovick, Brian Donkin, Arthur Willmott, Joe Francis, Jack Barrett.

 

As the season went on, other riders were introduced.

 

The 1939 team was captained by Keith Harvey, From what I know, riders included Charlie Appleby, Mick Mitchell, George Gower, Les Trim. Appleby was a Canadian. Another Candadian who rode second-half there was Eddie 'Flash' Barker.

[tape2tapevideo]

Hi all

 

I've been asked by my local historical society to find out what I can about Crystal Palace Glaziers, so my first stop is the collective brain cell of the BSF!

 

So, can anyone fill in any details about the team, like what periods they raced in, were they any good etc.?

 

Any info gratefully received

 

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I have a spare copy of the Crystal palace book, I thought I'd lost mine and got another one only for my original to turn up!, I will try and look it out.

[speedyguy]

I have a spare copy of the Crystal palace book, I thought I'd lost mine and got another one only for my original to turn up!, I will try and look it out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I remember this book. It was quite a good read, but there were some errors in it.

 

Sadly, I also lost my copy years ago. Waiting with hope for it to reappear on e-bay.

 

The photos in the book were quite good and typical of that era of the sport. Mentioned quite prominently was Dr Belton's favourite girl - the legendary Fay Taylour.

[Guest Donsking]

Thanks for your replies so far guys, I knew I could rely on you!

 

Norbold, if you get five minutes can you e-mail anything you can, any info is appreciated; basically, my town forum are considering a website feature on Crystal Palace's connection with motorsport, and I want to make sure Speedway doesn't get left to a few lines at the bottom of the page as it usually does.

[speedyguy]

Thanks for your replies so far guys, I knew I could rely on you!

 

Norbold, if you get five minutes can you e-mail anything you can, any info is appreciated; basically, my town forum are considering a website feature on Crystal Palace's connection with motorsport, and I want to make sure Speedway doesn't get left to a few lines at the bottom of the page as it usually does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I live in Streatham. Is this thesis likely to appear in this area eventually. Crystal Palace is about a 20 mnute bus ride from here - for those interested (!!!!) I do have a bus pass!

[Guest Donsking]

I live in Streatham. Is this thesis likely to appear in this area eventually. Crystal Palace is about a 20 mnute bus ride from here - for those interested (!!!!) I do have a bus pass!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I hope so, although it rather looks like I might end up with the job of writing the article so I can't tell you it's gonna happen in the next week or so!

 

As soon as anything substantial happens, I'll let everyone know.

[speedyguy]

Another 1939 aspirant was the famous legtrailer Bernard 'Bronco' Slade, probably on loan to Crystal Palace from Hackney Wick.

[Guest Jim Blanchard]

I've got an excellent book called Racing at Crystal Palace by Philip Parfitt. 

 

Published in the early 1990s, it concentrates mainly on motor racing and motorcycle road racing, but it does have a full chapter devoted to speedway.

 

Might be worth looking on Amazon for it if you're interested.  It's a first class motorsport book.

 

Graham.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Good call that Graham. I think my brother John still holds the lap record for the 350cc class there. He won the 250cc, 350cc, & 500cc races starting from the back of the grid with a pusher at one Easter Monday meeting (he crashed heavily at Brands on the Good Friday and was able to bump start his bikes for the push start)

 

Joe Dunphy was good around there as also was Paul Smart, the brother in law of the late Barry Sheene.

[Graham]

Jim,

 

I think my brother John still holds the lap record for the 350cc class there.

Your brother did indeed set the lap record for that category, averaging 77.40mph on 30 August 1965.

 

However it was broken several times before the circuit's closure in October 1972. The last 350cc record was set at 80.50mph by B Ditchburn on a Yamaha on 3 April 1972.

 

Flicking through the book again I'd forgotten how good it was. A real labour of love by Mr Parfitt.

 

For the record I got my copy in Motor Books in Headington, Oxford. I believe they also have branches in Swindon and London.

 

They have a website too:

 

http://www.motorbooks.co.uk/

 

Graham.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Graham

[speedyguy]

Another interesting book on motor sport at Crystal Palace, although not carrying much reference to speedway, is 'Motor Racing at Crystal Palace - London's Own circuit' by S S Collins. It does mention motorcycle path racing which took place in the Palace grounds in 1927. Meetings were promoted by Fred Mockford, who later promoted both Crystal Palace and New Cross speedways.

 

Two references are www.veloce.co.uk and www.velocebooks.com

 

The book when published about a year ago cost £12.99

Edited November 9, 2006 by speedyguy

[speedyguy]

I hope so, although it rather looks like I might end up with the job of writing the article so I can't tell you it's gonna happen in the next week or so!

 

As soon as anything substantial happens, I'll let everyone know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Passed by the athletics track at Crystal Palace this afternoon. I always think of it as the site of the old speedway.

 

Any further progress on your articles? Good luck in your research. Is it for the Crystal Palace Foundation by any chance?

[Guest Donsking]

In answer speedy, the article is pretty much written, it's just waiting for someone to construct the part of the website where it will reside, however, my research has thrown up one anomaly, namely the actual location of the track.

 

Obviously there is no trace of it now, and I haven't been able to turn up any external pictures that might help to pinpoint it, although it seems to be generally accepted that it was on the site of the football pitch, which is indeed where the athletics track is now.

 

What I have found are some pictures of the Crystal Palace grounds from around the turn of the 20th century, and these show two sports structures, the football pitch and then, on the other side of a wide walkway, more or less where the swimming pool is now, a cycle track.

 

Now, I don't now what the cycle tracks were like back then, but it doesn't look like it was banked like a modern velodrome and it looks too long to have been used for speedway without modification, but it certainly is an elongated oval and it has a grandstand, so I would've thought it more likely that the speedway track was laid inside the cycle track.

 

Unless I can find a definitive answer to it's exact location, I may have to call into question accepted wisdom and re-write that part of the piece which descibes the track location.