morganbike Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Has anyone got any opinions on the possability of current 500 riders downsizing for 2007. It is clear that the top 4 from 06 will not be competeing in 07 and I am not sure how old Norton is. Would it be fair if Greenwood,Johnson,Franklin etc joined the 250 ranks if thats the way the British under 15's Championship will go. Will there be enough 500 riders to hold a 7 round British Championship for 2007 ?. What if they rode both Championships 250 and 500 ?. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PanthersChamp06 Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Think they should stay on 500's. They need to be moving up to the top level on bikes not going down a size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Christophers Dad Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Has anyone got any opinions on the possability of current 500 riders downsizing for 2007. It is clear that the top 4 from 06 will not be competeing in 07 and I am not sure how old Norton is. Would it be fair if Greenwood,Johnson,Franklin etc joined the 250 ranks if thats the way the British under 15's Championship will go. Will there be enough 500 riders to hold a 7 round British Championship for 2007 ?. What if they rode both Championships 250 and 500 ?. Phil <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kye Norton will be 15 on April 6th 2007,what a great book is the British Speedway Who,s Who by Peter Oakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowasthatberntpersson Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Has anyone got any opinions on the possability of current 500 riders downsizing for 2007. It is clear that the top 4 from 06 will not be competeing in 07 and I am not sure how old Norton is. Would it be fair if Greenwood,Johnson,Franklin etc joined the 250 ranks if thats the way the British under 15's Championship will go. Will there be enough 500 riders to hold a 7 round British Championship for 2007 ?. What if they rode both Championships 250 and 500 ?. Phil <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As the saying goes the horse has already bolted; BIG mistake pushing the youngsters on 500's in the first place, one step at a time...it works in every other country apart from the UK. The 250's are the perfect preperation for the 500's. In my opinion the 12 months leading up to a sixteenth birthday is when the kids should step up to the 500's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasstain Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 As the saying goes the horse has already bolted; BIG mistake pushing the youngsters on 500's in the first place, one step at a time...it works in every other country apart from the UK. The 250's are the perfect preperation for the 500's. In my opinion the 12 months leading up to a sixteenth birthday is when the kids should step up to the 500's. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand what you are saying and of course people will think I'm biased as my son already rides a 500cc and is 14 today , but in reality is 12 months really long enough to learn how to ride one of these machines? And coupled with that 12 months leading up to 16th birthday would put a stop to seeing all the products of the U15 championship in the conference league from their 15th Birthday. IMO I have seen all the present U15's ride their 500 machines and most of them know the basics of how to ride a bike and I have seen one or two lay their bikes down to perfection this year to avoid hitting another rider who has fallen, speed is not the bee all and end all, they must be allowed to develop their own style and the speed will come later. I have seen one or two posts on the forum this year saying that the racing wasnt that good etc but they are learning, how many people in any sphere of life get to grips with what they are supposed to be doing straight away to a high level? Not many in my experience!! In regard to 250 they have only been around for the last 12 months and the U15 championship has run for 3 years now there has been no bridging gap in between 125cc and 500cc so there has been no option but to go to 500cc. Some of the 250 lads have really got to grips with the 250's and only time will tell when they make the step up to 500cc if the path forced on them was the right one. My son in particular was riding grasstrack from the age of 6 and progressed from 50cc -60cc with gears-100cc and 125cc this gave him a chance to form his own style and admittedly he's not the quickest in the world but IMO has one of the smoothest styles I have seen from one of these youngsters. There are many reasons I can see why people would rather see the kids on lower powered machines but imagine this, Your son / daughter plays football to a high level, but only on a 5 a side pitch. All of a sudden they hit their 16th birthday and they are signed by a proffesional club and asked to play on a full size pitch with a decent crowd and 21 other players to worry about a recipe for potential disaster and loss of confidence me thinks. I know this is very unlikely but I'm just trying to compare this with riding lower powered machines then hitting 16 jumping on a 500 and being toldto ride in a conference team. Rich Franklin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganbike Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) Lee, are you telling me that Wuffy and Martin never rode a 500 til they came to uk ?. Aus rules state that they are not allowed to race in a speedway meeting but they can still ride a 500 during closed sessions or at a mates back yard track.Scandanavia is the same.The tracks are open every day and closed sessions are easy to pay for.Did Risager (coventry) wait till he came to the Uk for a 500 ride ?.Doubt it he's only 16 or 17 now and in the Elite. These 500 riders now cought up in the 14-15 age group with nothing to do (my son Daniel included) were not forced onto 500.Each one was thrashing around on a 125 week after week many times on their own and going stale.The 250 was not around back then and Daniel even went 350 for a year but the 500 was not harder to ride. If we had 15 up and coming 14 year olds on 500 then the 07 under 15's 500 would go ahead.The problem is we only have 6 or 7 so if Pete can get these riders to down grade and join the current 250 riders then we will have enough to hold the championship.The resale value on the 250 motor will be good but somehow I can't see it doing the likes of Titch Franklin and such like any good at all. Phil Edited October 30, 2006 by morganbike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowasthatberntpersson Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Lee, are you telling me that Wuffy and Martin never rode a 500 til they came to uk ?. Aus rules state that they are not allowed to race in a speedway meeting but they can still ride a 500 during closed sessions or at a mates back yard track.Scandanavia is the same.The tracks are open every day and closed sessions are easy to pay for.Did Risager (coventry) wait till he came to the Uk for a 500 ride ?.Doubt it he's only 16 or 17 now and in the Elite. These 500 riders now cought up in the 14-15 age group with nothing to do (my son Daniel included) were not forced onto 500.Each one was thrashing around on a 125 week after week many times on their own and going stale.The 250 was not around back then and Daniel even went 350 for a year but the 500 was not harder to ride. If we had 15 up and coming 14 year olds on 500 then the 07 under 15's 500 would go ahead.The problem is we only have 6 or 7 so if Pete can get these riders to down grade and join the current 250 riders then we will have enough to hold the championship.The resale value on the 250 motor will be good but somehow I can't see it doing the likes of Titch Franklin and such like any good at all. Phil Most Aussies do practice on 500's before they are 15, usually on salt flats etc, and yes there are some unofficial back yard tracks but you have to be 15 to ride on a licenced track. What I'm trying to say is some of these kids are jumping on 500's way too early, my way of thinking is why move onto a 500 until you've got absolutely everything you can out of the 250, the same with the jump from 125's to 250's. Basically all of the speedway world should be using the same structure, whatever that may be. You need to look at the countries developing the most good quality youngsters and see what they are doing.... The current format may work and yes we may see top riders progressing (England needs it) but I and a few others have big doubts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganbike Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) Totally agree but the fazing out of the 80cc two smoke world speedway championship is the aim behind the Jawa 250. I am sure we will see the Junior World Championship for 10 to 16 yr olds on Jawa 250's only using standard untuned parts being introduced over the next 2 years. At the moment any country can enter the 80cc champs but not so with the 250 unless they change their rules.How would a 13 year old rider restricted to a 125 in his home country prepare for an asault on the world champs on a 250?. Yes the same structure worldwide is the aim but I only hope that they restrict entrys to non contracted riders only.Imagine riders aged 15-16 which make up 25% of the UK conference league buying a 250 and entering !!!. Edited October 31, 2006 by morganbike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Yes the same structure worldwide is the aim but I only hope that they restrict entrys to non contracted riders only.Imagine riders aged 15-16 which make up 25% of the UK conference league buying a 250 and entering !!!.Hang on, we're constantly told we're behind Denmark, Oz, Sweden etc etc so for onc,e lets let us get ahead!! If a CL rider is eligable for the 250 World Championship and he has an advantage, then bloody great!! I fail to see whay it matter what experience they have, the whole point is to further yourself and if the CL does that, then great. Your suggestion is to ban the best, older Brits form this competion, so then we won't get a winner and people can do the "oh the Swedes, Poles and Danes are betetr than us" routine! My view on things, for what it's worth. Would be for first timers in the U-16s to be encouraged to ride a 250, after time, someone like Peter Oakes (or a pro-rider, assigned by the BSPA) can suggest that the rider is looking good enough to ride a 500. Have no hard and fast rules but a bit of advice that suggests starting on a 250, pointing towards the World Junior Championship using 250's as the reason why. That way, the likes of Richard Franklin don't have to go out and get 250 (hs parents actually) as he has had his couple of years and is clearly capable of riding a 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Totally agree but the fazing out of the 80cc two smoke world speedway championship is the aim behind the Jawa 250. I am sure we will see the Junior World Championship for 10 to 16 yr olds on Jawa 250's only using standard untuned parts being introduced over the next 2 years. At the moment any country can enter the 80cc champs but not so with the 250 unless they change their rules.How would a 13 year old rider restricted to a 125 in his home country prepare for an asault on the world champs on a 250?. Yes the same structure worldwide is the aim but I only hope that they restrict entrys to non contracted riders only.Imagine riders aged 15-16 which make up 25% of the UK conference league buying a 250 and entering !!!. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But will we?Seems the Danes for example are quite happy with the 80cc set up.They have the small tracks which teach the youngsters throttle control etc,and have proven results.Why would the other countries change their system to suit Britain?Is it worth Denmark having 50cc,80cc and 500cc leagues as well as starting a 250cc one as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganbike Posted November 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 The 80cc and such like two smokes have to be fazed out for euro polution reasons.All the countries involved have agreed that the 250 is the way to go to replace the 80cc junior world championship. Motocross bikes have already started the transition and Honda say as of next year they will stop any further development of their two smokes. Without the 500 in british under 15/16's Champs how is the 14 year old going to get that race experience that has proved to be succesfull over the last three years ? The upgrade to 500 once the rider is capable (new rules say minimum age 14) is Ok but where do they compete for the year to train for the conference league at 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 The 80cc and such like two smokes have to be fazed out for euro polution reasons.All the countries involved have agreed that the 250 is the way to go to replace the 80cc junior world championship. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not so sure on that.I think Denmark and Sweden are not convinced that 250s are the way to go.Latest news seems to suggest they are looking into it,but ain't convinced.Think there won't be any Individual or Nordic 250 Championship next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowasthatberntpersson Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Its getting even more confusing now. In Australia all (well some) of the kids too big or too advanced for the 125's are now advancing to 350's, the current rule says anyone 14 years of age can ride a 350 on the big tracks until they turn 16. This has basically killed off any 250cc racing, not that there was much anyway, infact I'm not aware of any 250 jawas racing in OZ (although I may be proved wrong), we do have three teens on 250cc Hondas at my local track. Very interesting to see 350cc's on the same program as the Australian Under 16 Pairs (125cc) Championship, with quite a few of the older Kids doubling up, and some of the bigger kids looking much more at home on the 350's. Its something that needs sorting quickly, but for the time being it looks like Australia is supporting the 350's rather than 250's as a progression from 125cc racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganbike Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 This may change when your official Jawa improrter gets the nudge from Jawa to promote and sell 250 engines in oz. At the moment Jawa do not make these engines all the time and are making a new batch for 07.If they wish to break into the oz market then they will have to influence and convince the oz governing bodys that this is the best and safest option for 11 to 14 yr olds. It has happened here in the UK and we all wait anxiously for the 2007 rules and regulations. We do however have both youth and adult grasstrack classes of 250cc which the Jawa is becoming the engine most want to ride. We will always have the two smoke boys but the lastest 4 stroke Moto X engines are expensive and will only fit in a specialised chassis whereas the jawa 250 just replaces the 350 and 500 engines already being used in laydown chassis so making it a cheaper option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sir Lunchalot Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Very interesting to see 350cc's on the same program as the Australian Under 16 Pairs (125cc) Championship, with quite a few of the older Kids doubling up, and some of the bigger kids looking much more at home on the 350's. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We always have 2 or 3 of the 350's going round at Broadford each club day. Dakota North wins 99% of the races and he is sneaky quick on the 350. As an indication the 500's are usally doing around 53 seconds a race and Dakota sneaks round in the 56 second bracket and looks mighty impressive while doing it. I think you would have to crowbar him off the 350 to get him on a 250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 A question to all the Mum's and Dads, who want their kid on a 500cc speedway bike How many of you's have ridden or tried to ride a 500cc ? Regards. PS. Come on be honest..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I have ridden a 500 many times - none of them fast - and even a 250 Grass bike on the Speedway. In my opinion an excess of power is very rarely a problem, in fact it generally makes the bikes safer as when they are spinning too much they stay away from the fence. Again it is only my opinion but things start to go wrong with 500's when dad starts trying to get the bike to drive harder than junior can cope with. Already we are seeing very inexperienced riders with the new style back ends and the wheel shunted right forwards, then the timing is knocked back and low tyre pressures used. Additionally they may well be using an engine set up for a professional rider on slick tracks and you have the perfect recipe for a rider picking up and heading toward the fence at every small mistake. Possibly the 250's will give them a head start when it comes to using professional type set ups but I think they may well be a problem on bigger tracks for the same reason a 'soft' 500 can be. Personally I am glad that Sam was able to start on a 500 that was always left set up long and sharp (and still is in the main) so that he has to use throttle control to find drive. When he gets into trouble there is a good chance that a big handful of throttle will get him off the lowside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackman Posted April 13, 2007 Report Share Posted April 13, 2007 I didn't expect many Mums to say they had been on a 500, but only one Dad has been adventureous..... What puts you off then? Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 The 80cc and such like two smokes have to be fazed out for euro polution reasons.All the countries involved have agreed that the 250 is the way to go to replace the 80cc junior world championship. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just want to comment this European policy about pollution. My friend told me about the TV show Amazing Race which he follows frequently. Anyway the race was going on in India, and they were in Delhi. As a sidenote the announcer told that in Delhi alone they have FIVE million two stroke scooters! Whats the point in banning two stroke motorcycle sport disciplines in Europe alone... This just to give perspective, I'm all enviroenmental-mental... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 14, 2007 Report Share Posted April 14, 2007 And they have already announced that the 80cc World Championship will be back in Denmark next year.So they ain't moving in the 250cc direction yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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