JIROUT Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hazzman How many conference meetings you been to this year mate......... If we are on our knees with waldron,westacott,frampton,betson,cook,woffinden,auty,tully,dennis,hughes,taylor ,haines,roberts,baseby,hopwood etc etc etc i would like to see us when we are good..... The future of british speedway is rosy....all we need to do now is encourage the British youngsters in the Premier League up by giving them say a 2 pt average thus taking out all the useless foreigners who have got to place in the elite league....I applaud people like Colin Horton and John Louis for bringing in riders like Hall and King who have been a revalation this year...and who were both riding conference league a couple of years ago jirout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 But at the end of the day it does not matter what any of us think cos BSI have the last say end of story...They have put there money into it so why shouldnt they have the last say.......If you dont like it dont go and dont watch it on tv Personally i would love to see Nicholls,Loram and Harris in because they are racers and exciting to watch just like Crump Pedersen,Hancock,Jonsson,Gollob etc....Unfortunately the riders that sub is vindicating are not racers...so it depends whether you want boring speedway or exciting speedway.....at the end of the day there will always be winners,losers and hard luck stories...... Sub has kept this thread going because of his pure Hatred of Nicholls.......Im sure if offered he will take the wild card...not because he has no integrity but because he is in a profession which means he will probabley retire in his 30's and you have got to take any chance when it is given to you....even you sub jirout <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, I've kept this thread going because of the utter tosh yourself and others have come up with. But it is good to see that you admit defeat in the arguement and accept that Nicholls will only get a nomination because of his nationality and BSI. Hurrah for that. But it doesn't make it right, does it. And Nicholls will be showing a lack of honour, dignity and integrity if he accepts a nomination he himself has said would be undeserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIROUT Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hazzman It was not an attack on Subdei.....at the end of the day if Nicholls went out and won the World Title next year you know damn well sub would find something wrong somewhere because he obviously has a problem with him......I used to not like Crumpie...but for me he has turned it around and is a model world champion...difference is i was man enough to say i was wrong about him jirout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) If we are on our knees with waldron,westacott,frampton,betson,cook,woffinden,auty,tully,dennis,hughes,taylor,haines,roberts,baseby,hopwood etc etc etc i would like to see us when we are good..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Emil Sajfutdinov is 16 and riding in the Polish Ekstraliga and beating the likes of Tomasz Gollob around Bydgoszcz and Tarnow. Klindt, Buczkowski, Pavlic, Zabik and others making there way in the top two tiers of Polish speedway. We just haven't got a clue. ....I applaud people like Colin Horton and John Louis for bringing in riders like Hall and King who have been a revalation this year...and who were both riding conference league a couple of years ago jirout <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Swiderski and Zabik, to go with Andersen, Jensen, Iversen and Sullivan - we're positively awash with British riders at Peterborough. Edited October 4, 2006 by Subedei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hazzman How many conference meetings you been to this year mate......... If we are on our knees with waldron,westacott,frampton,betson,cook,woffinden,auty,tully,dennis,hughes,taylor ,haines,roberts,baseby,hopwood etc etc etc i would like to see us when we are good..... The future of british speedway is rosy....all we need to do now is encourage the British youngsters in the Premier League up by giving them say a 2 pt average thus taking out all the useless foreigners who have got to place in the elite league....I applaud people like Colin Horton and John Louis for bringing in riders like Hall and King who have been a revalation this year...and who were both riding conference league a couple of years ago jirout <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You seem to have misunderstood my point. I applaud the likes of Horton and Louis. However, the Conference League two years ago was ideal set-up but now it seems on its knees, we have probably 8 tracks you can be assured of Conference racing, two of them are fielding Premier League teams. I was trying to say that they are Poles, Swedes and Danes at the same age but at a completely different stage of development, they are riding for foreign teams in different leagues again more experience. The British view of a young Speedway rider seems to be very open, Stead is about 25, Harris a year younger, and these are at the same development or if not behind Kolodziej 22 year old, Kilndt 17 year old, Thomas H. Jonasson of VMS Elit 18 years old. There has been a few steps to developing a sound British development system. The Under-15s was one step and it seems to have uncovered 2 good riders. The recent Premier League reserves was a good idea, although I would like to see it at Elite level, we dont have enough riders to go around. I actually applaud the Brits who have made the step-up this year. This list of riders have made considerable leaps and bounds this year though I feel many have done it too late. Stead Harris Allen King Bridger Lawson Hall All 7 of them have raised their game sufficiently for them to be signed by their clubs next year but it all seems to late. I personally I believe two training tracks should be nationalised and made into academies with Mauger appointed to look after them in a job well paid by the BSPA. Northside Workington to become a north base and Sittingbourne a south base. BSPA constantly seem to restrict the development with various closing-down of training tracks ie. SHeffield instead of helping with the fence, they neglected and the same will happen at Swindon who the BSPA have let fight their own battle over keeping their track open. Over the riders you name Jirout, only half will have make a living in the British Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 You are going to have to do much better than that I’m afraid. Nicholls is clearly getting better..... 2004 66 points from 8 GP 2005 72 points from 9 GP 2006 83 points from 9 GP Even if the ONLY benchmark of Nicholls’ improvement is the SGP then that improvement is plain for all but the most stupid to see. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Might have something to do with more GPs in previous seasons. I am not 100% sure but I think its a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hazzman It was not an attack on Subdei.....at the end of the day if Nicholls went out and won the World Title next year you know damn well sub would find something wrong somewhere because he obviously has a problem with him......I used to not like Crumpie...but for me he has turned it around and is a model world champion...difference is i was man enough to say i was wrong about him jirout <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And I've said numerous times that if Nicholls shows decency, integrity and honour and declines any nominated place, I'll be among the first to applaud him. If - and it's a bloody big IF - he wins the world title next season, the only complaint I'll have is that he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 You are going to have to do much better than that I’m afraid. Nicholls is clearly getting better..... 2004 66 points from 8 GP 2005 72 points from 9 GP 2006 83 points from 9 GP Even if the ONLY benchmark of Nicholls’ improvement is the SGP then that improvement is plain for all but the most stupid to see. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only one left having to do better, is you. Nicholls actually, believe it or not, qualified by right for the 2003 series. He actually made TWO finals in 2002. And he declined from 9th to 11th between 2005 and 2006. Now come back when you've a reasoned arguement and not balderdash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 You see, you don’t actually understand what you are trying to say, or to put it another way, you don’t know what you are talking about. Again. I said Nicholls is still improving and when challenged showed over the last three seasons he has in fact improved. Your point about qualification and overall placing is not a mark of his improvement or otherwise. Let me help you. A runner over 100 metres records a time of 10 seconds and finishes 5th. The next race he records a time of 9.9 seconds and finishes 7th. Has the runner improved or not? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dear Genghis, please give me strength. The fact is Nicholls declined from 9th to 11th. Now, any improved score merely indicates that either others improved much more than Nicholls, or the field was weaker. Take your pick. I go with the field being weaker myself, thus suggesting a decline in Nicholls performance. I hope this is simple enough for you to understand. Your runner might have improved, but the field was stronger. Hell, Nicholls might win if you take out Crump, Hancock, Nicki P, Jonsson, Adams, Zagar, Andersen, Gollob and Hampel, but it won't denote an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 You’re just digging yourself a deeper hole. I said Nichols was still improving, like the runner he clearly is. You are dumfounded because other riders have apparently improved also. An easy mistake to make. You then say the field has been weaker to explain why he has scored more points but you have just said that he finished 2 places lower in a weaker field despite scoring more points! You should now see that it is impossible to gauge a rider’s improvement against other riders unless the other riders performance remains constant. Going back to the runner, if he wins a race in a time of 10 seconds and next time finishes last in a personal best time 9.8 seconds has he improved? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And as I've said, it doesn't necessarily denote improvement. It merely denotes that easier points were available at the lower end of the spectrum. The comparison with your runner is false. Your runner has demonstrably run faster, but Nicholls hasn't demonstrably improved when the counter-arguement of a weakening of the lower order is taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIROUT Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hang on no integrity....bringing shame to GB.....putting him in comparison of Hitler Sorry mate if you think Drop a cog was making a personal attack then look in the mirror...Just because he is a rider does not mean you can attack him like that..... jirout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willp Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 sub in my previous i said that in my opinion and may other peoples opinion, scotty is one of the top 15 riders in the world. peter karlsson may not have been in this years series but i class him as a top 15 rider. i compared kolodziej to nki because i think both are in the top 20 riders in the world and i could see kolodziej doing similar to nki this season. scotty is a top 15 rider as is pk and i think both should be in next year as dont you want the best riders in the world riding in the best competition in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 You really are struggling with this aren't you? Regarding spelling, in your list of British Champions who is Morten? It is Morton not Morten isn’t it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not struggling at all. It's you who appears to be twisting and turning in desperation. However, it does appear that I misspelled Morten for which I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuzieQ Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Try learning to spell words before using them. It helps you avoid looking foolish.And as I've said, it doesn't necessarily denote improvement. It merely denotes that easier points were available at the lower end of the spectrum. The comparison with your runner is false. Your runner has demonstrably run faster, but Nicholls hasn't demonstrably improved when the counter-arguement of a weakening of the lower order is taken into account. I shall, of course, be bring your use of the word imbecile to the attention of the moderators of this forum, since it clearly constitutes a personal attack. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you going to apologise for this also? Personally I don't think the moderators would do anything to anyone on here at the moment for them responding to your constant sniping posts regarding Scott Nicholls! You have made your point! Many, oh so many on here disagree with you but you just keep hounding on about integrity, doing the decent thing etc! Well can you please do the decent thing now and just leave it here! Enough is enough (and I seriously can/t go on - despite what Donna Summer may say) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hardly, I said Nicholls was improving, you said he wasn’t. I showed he is but you still failed to see it. I pointed out other riders improvement does not show that Nicholls is not improving. You also failed to see the paradox between Nicholls scoring more points but finishing in a lower position, claiming both to show a weaker field. I did like the way you emphasised the use of the word imbecile though, albeit misspelt, thanks for that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, your analogy was incorrect. as stated, your runner manifestly had improved by going faster than previously. The same does not hold for Nicholls. You can't equate a points total gained with a time. Nicholls increased points total was down to a weaker lower order, that's why generally others have improved as well - easier points at the lower end. So, please try a little harder and we may be able to have a sensible discussion. The only figure that counts is that Nicholls declined from 9th to 11th. That can't be argued with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Well can you please do the decent thing now and just leave it here! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm afraid I can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngy105 Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) you dont represent the people, end of <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quite a well thought out post there...well put as well. I never said I represented the people. I do not represent the people and don't wish to represent the people but someone said, you I believe, Nicholls was the people's champion. There are many on here who love Nicholls and there are just as many who don't. For me personally I don't have an opinion either way on him. He's not my favourite but I don't dislike him either. IMO Scott is currently the best British rider but has massively underachieved on the World Stage. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure people will, but didn't Nicholls state that if he didn't automatically qualify from this years GP he would go through the qualifiers in 2007. As the old saying goes it's time to put or shut up. If that is what Scott said then he should honour that and prove to us all what a world class rider he can be. I just feel IMO giving him a wildcard for 2007 isn't progress at all and that is what speedway so badly needs to do. As a sport it needs to progress rather than being stuck in the mud and set in it's ways. Read the following about Nicholls preparation for the Bydgoszcz GP. It's about halfway down the page. http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=29343 Edited October 4, 2006 by youngy105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Having looked at the points scored by the 'lower order' it looks like you are wrong again but would you mind defining the 'lower order'? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The lower order is defined however I see fit to define the lower order. None of your balderdash alters the simple, basic fact that Nicholls went from 9th in the GPs to 11th in the GPs - you can call that an improvement, most wouldn't. The analogy with the runner is so flawed as to be ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Simon Stead in the GPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 The lower order is defined however I see fit to define the lower order.None of your balderdash alters the simple, basic fact that Nicholls went from 9th in the GPs to 11th in the GPs - you can call that an improvement, most wouldn't. The analogy with the runner is so flawed as to be ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as Simon Stead in the GPs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you ever go out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerblues Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) Wow, 40 pages and still going strong. I think everyone has understood what point you are trying to make Subedei. You don't like Nicholls well fair enough don't support him and the British fans who obviously don't agree with you will. I'm sure Scott is losing no sleep whatsoever over the fact that you would see it so terrible for him to get into next year's Grand Prix series. Now this thread is boring, after about 20 pages you run out of things to say so obviously decided to repeat the same things over and over. Yawn. Edit - well my mistake, we are actually on 42 pages. Edited October 4, 2006 by tigerblues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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