British Selection For 2007

[AndyM]

This is what I was saying - he's had a poor season, but he's a classy rider. Given the form of which he's fully capable, I'd expect him to be up there with an excellent chance of making the cut in future years. Whether he or any other British rider would prosper in the current GP format is another matter, but we should certainly be preparing them for a leap in level as and when they reach those dizzy heights.

[Subedei]

The GP started in April, Jonsson was still riding for Arena in May. Not only did Jonsson apparently ride in the EL 18 times this season he rode for Arena while riding in the GP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's very misleading - Jonsson rode 18 heats in the EL this season. You make it sound like 18 meetings.

[SCB]

Ha Ha, I’m not very good??

 

Where shall I start?

 

This’ll do.

Current averages? Okay, you win…..

Even though Bomber was absolutely hopeless at 1/5 including only scoring 4 v Belle Vue twice he is now reveling in the easier 3/4 team spot.

 

While Steady is easily maintaining his average at No.1 Bomber is enjoying the easier rides to increase his average.

 

He should get closer unless he isn’t as good as you think he is.

What a great idea, run a meeting, tell everyone that the top four will go into a final to decide the three qualifiers, finishing 5th or lower is worth diddly squat.

 

Run the meeting and then 6 weeks later announce that actually the top seven go through!

 

Do you work for the BSPA? 

The GP started in April, Jonsson was still riding for Arena in May. Not only did Jonsson apparently ride in the EL 18 times this season he rode for Arena while riding in the GP.

 

Jonsson, like Rickardsson and every other rider who wants to give himself a better than 1/60 chance of becoming world champion knows that you must ride in UK, that’s why it’s the EL that is the benchmark. Once you’ve got a grasp of that it easy to see who has earned the wildcard should there be a choice between Steady and Bomber.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You win. There's no arguing with logic like this!

 

Logically flawed and you're semantics when asking questions is quite clearly wrong too. So you then change the question, and change it and change it and you still don't get it right.

 

ANDREAS JONSSON DOES NOT RIDE IN THE ELITE LEAGUE. HE HAS RODE IN THE ELITE LEAGUE.

[Hazzman]

So how does Jonsson only riding in the EL for part of the GP season help Bomber gain a wildcard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It proves that the EL (according to your way of thinking) is now weaker than Poland and Sweden. Meaning the Polish and Swedish averages in comparison carry the same/if not more leverage to Harris for a wildcard.

 

Drop a cog, you are refuse to acknowledge other people comments and facts which are being provided. It's a very shortened argument you hold.

 

To argue your case of Stead riding at no.1 for Belle Vue, Harris currently rides no.1 for his Polish team aswell. Stead rides at no.3 for his Polish club and struggles somewhat. His recent 2+1 outing is just an example view.

[SCB]

So how does Jonsson only riding in the EL for part of the GP season help Bomber gain a wildcard?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know. You asked the question. I thought you had some (flawed) pet theory.

[Subedei]

Has Hampel's GP form suffered? He's made more GP finals that Mr Nicholls this season. This is just the pet theory of a few to lure the top stars back to the UK - Jonsson's GP form was pretty dreadful early in the season and he's made huge leaps forward in the last 2-3 GPs. Tomasz Gollob started the season well and then God alone knows what happened? Maybe the crisis that has engulfed his Polish team Tarnow has affected him, or maybe he just can't be bothered when the tracks get a little rough and ready.

Rune Holta and Wieslaw Jagus don't ride in Britain, but it didn't hamper their ability to QUALIFY for the GPs, something neither Harris nor Stead could manage.

But, if you're so enthusiastic to see Stead humiliated drop-a-cog, who am I to argue? Stick him in the GPs for all I care. As I've said, I could do with a laugh every couple of weeks next season.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Subedei

[Hazzman]

Forgive me, you appear to be saying…..

 

So one rider in the top eight doesn't ride a full season in UK and that proves the EL is weaker than Poland or Sweden!!!

 

When considering a rider’s claim for a GP wildcard we should discount the 40+ meetings the rider’s race in their domestic competition in favour of the dozen or so meetings raced overseas as the top riders have lower averages overseas than in the said domestic competition!!

 

I read this on the forum a few days ago…..

Why should that be so?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So because SS says it's the truth. Hampel should of won in Cardiff if it wasnt for a mistake by Hancock and hes also been in finals with that.

 

In claim of a GP Wildcard we shall consider, now lets take away the matter of importance (I still believe Elitserien and E-Liga are stronger than the Elite, you didnt answer my question about why Crump scores more points per ride in Uk than Poland

- Past GP outings STEAD

- Past SWC Outings HARRIS

- Meetings of International Calibre HARRIS

- Elite League STEAD

- Elitserien HARRIS

- E-Liga HARRIS

 

Harris 4-2

 

Forgot averages to prove which is the stronger league.

But look at points per ride

Crump @ UK - 2.82

Crump @ Poland - 2.66

Crump @ Sweden - 2.40

 

Why does Crump find it easier to score points in UK than in Poland and Swedish League?

 

The answer is easier, the opposition is far more competitive abroad. The stats dont lie.

[iris123]

Maybe you could do a little experiment.Look at one or 2 teams from Sweden and Poland.Work out the total averages for that team using their British ones and see if that team would be able to turn out in the Elite league.Can't be bothered to do it myself,but it might be interesting

[Subedei]

Sporting history is littered with what ifs and hard luck stories, Hampels is just another one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very true. But Hampel's time will come.

And sporting history is also littered with "just not good enoughs" - that's the Stead category. Your arguement for including him in the GPs seems to be motivated purely by the fact that he rides for your team - if Harris rode for Belle Vue you'd be putting forward his case. Stead had a chance to get into the GPs and he blew it, finishing way down the order in Vetlanda.

[Hazzman]

Well you are persistent if nothing else!

 

Sporting history is littered with what ifs and hard luck stories, Hampels is just another one.

 

Crumpy scores more points in UK because…..

 

He lives in UK, his best bikes are in UK, he takes the UK league more seriously, he doesn’t like the overseas travelling, he is less motivated for Swedish and Polish racing, The top riders race each other more often leaving the lower order riders easier races, he can’t speak Polish or Swedish, he doesn’t like the weather, he doesn’t like the time zone.

 

Is that enough reasons? 

 

Some less likely than you claim of proof that Polish/Swedish racing is more competitive but most are far more likely explanations.

 

The 4-2 win for Bomber is an interesting one.

 

You can have the Polish and Swedish ‘points’ but how have you calculated the past SWC outings victory for Bomber and what constitutes a meeting of international calibre?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The scoreline is subjective.

 

But I used the example of Crump and I knew your reply would be in relation to him living in the UK.

 

Alright then what about Niels Kristian-Iversen. He's not based one country, hes a Dane so does have any particular alliance with the three countries.

Poland - 1.698 per ride

UK - 1.989 per ride

Sweden - 1.762 per ride

 

I could repeat the same with a few other Danes. Why does PUK find GB easier?

[south coast robin]

Over the last 2 Grand Prix at Cardiff Hampel has been the most prolific scorer .

 

Worth an outsider bet next year .

[Grachan]

Jonas Davidsson. Proof that the Swedish League is weaker than the UK. If you want.

 

It's a pointless argument.

[SCB]

So the Swedish and Polish leagues are weaker. So why the hell is Simon Sead rubbish in them then? Clearly not GP standard if he cannot score decent poitns in "weaker" leagues.

 

How to defeat your own arguement by Drop A Cog!!

 

Edited September 20, 2006 by SCB

[azza]

i think simon stead because he is a good rider and could do really well

[Subedei]

If you really want to join in properly you can start be explaing why Crumpy has a lower average in Poland than UK and Lee Richardson has a higher one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Crump's averages are more-or-less the same in all the leagues in which he competes - the guy is head and shoulders above the opposition at the minute, so I wouldn't get too hung up about which league he has a higher average in. It could come down to the odd engine failure making a difference.

As for Lee Richardson, well perhaps the following could be reasons:

 

1..Fewer meetings in Poland - I think Richardson had a mid-season slump in form, this could've been 6-7 meetings in the UK, but only 1-2 in Poland.

2..The tracks are all broadly similar size and configuration - perhaps Richardson likes the "continental" tracks and feels more comfortable riding on them.

 

The reason most people consider the BEL a "strong" league is because of the different track shapes and sizes - from Swindon to Arena Essex, requiring greater flexibility from the individual rider. In addition there are more meetings to a UK season than either Sweden and Poland. But these are external to the main "team strength" arguement forwarded by those who advocate the foreign leagues.

You simply cannot argue with the Wroclaw (stronger than Luxo Stars for me) team:

 

1..J Hampel

2..K Bjerre

3..H Andersen

4..T Gapinski/P Swiderski

5..J Crump

6..R Jamrozy

7..N Klindt

Edited September 20, 2006 by Subedei

[SCB]

You really should go to the trouble of reading a few pages of a thread if you want to join in and be taken seriously....

I have and I've replied to the bit I find relevant and can answer.

 

 

Just substitute Steady for Crumpy.

I think averageing 10 abroad is good, averaging the 5 Steady does, is not. It's not about the difference in scores here and abroad but the lack of scoring power abroad TBH.

 

 

If you really want to join in properly you can start be explaing why Crumpy has a lower average in Poland than UK and Lee Richardson has a higher one.

I did read it all and TBH, I see no relvance what so ever between Crumpy's Swedish, Polish and British scores and who's the better of Simon Stead or Chris Harris at this moment in time. I see it as a side issue that is being created to devate away form the fact people have thrown up some damn good arguements for Bomber and you're unable to do the same for Steady.

 

TBH, I don't care which league is weaker, which league is better. If I had to argue a case, I'd say the EL has weaker teams but mainly due to the fact there's more teams.

 

Why does Lee Richardson perform better in Swede? Prefers the tracks? LEss fans on his back? Less pressure? Nicer scenery so he can relax between heats? I don't know, thats why I did not get involved. I cannot answer that question or query so why bother trying? To please you it seems!

 

But do tell me the relevance of Crump and Richardsons averages with the who's better, Steady or Bomber debate. I can understand Richardsons as he is British and so in contention for a GP place but I thoutgh we'd already counted him out and worked out it was between Bomber and Steady anyway.

[Grachan]

You simply cannot argue with the Wroclaw (stronger than Luxo Stars for me) team:

 

1..J Hampel

2..K Bjerre

3..H Andersen

4..T Gapinski/P Swiderski

5..J Crump

6..R Jamrozy

7..N Klindt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Easy to quote the Champions though, isn't it? In the same league you also have Rybnik.

 

Chris Harris

Roman Provazhny

Patryk Pawlasczyk

Roman Chromik

Wojiech Druchniak

Slawomir Pyszny

Michel Mitko.

 

Haven't even heard of 5 of them so can't make a serious judgement, but on face value that team looks worse than Arena Essex. It all depends what team you choose to mention.

 

How about Vargarna in the Swedish Elite?

 

Adam Shields

Niklas Klingberg

Krzysztof Buczkowski

Joe Screen

Andreas Bergstrom

Daniel Nermark

Viktor Bergstrom

Leigh Lanham.

 

Does anyone think these teams are stronger than British Elite League sides?

[Hazzman]

Easy to quote the Champions though, isn't it? In the same league you also have Rybnik.

 

Chris Harris

Roman Provazhny

Patryk Pawlasczyk

Roman Chromik

Wojiech Druchniak

Slawomir Pyszny

Michel Mitko.

 

Haven't even heard of 5 of them so can't make a serious judgement, but on face value that team looks worse than Arena Essex. It all depends what team you choose to mention.

 

How about Vargarna in the Swedish Elite?

 

Adam Shields

Niklas Klingberg

Krzysztof Buczkowski

Joe Screen

Andreas Bergstrom

Daniel Nermark

Viktor Bergstrom

Leigh Lanham.

 

Does anyone think these teams are stronger than British Elite League sides?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vargarna's team was restricted by lack of funds and Rynbik were placed in E-liga with two weeks to go.

 

If you take 5th team in the various league there is the difference.

 

Drop a cog apart from Richardson and Davidsson, name some other riders that do better in the foreign leagues than the EL.

 

Heres another great thinker, Magnus Karlsson rides at reserve for Wolves rideS for a first division club in Sweden, Jepser B.Jensen heat leader at P'boro rides in the Polish First Division, Shields heat-leader at Eastbourne rides in Polish First Division. If these EL heatleaders were any good than why didnt the big Polish clubs select them for their team?? Kristian-Iversen is a 3rd heatleader in UK, hes at reserve for his Swedish club.

 

The Harris V Stead scoreline was subjective, according to opinion. My opinion stands one way a neutal one aswell and yours is bound to be skewed with your Belle Vue leanings.

[SCB]

You still haven't bothered reading the thread, if you had you would have seen that it is our friend Hazzman who considers the Polish and Swedish leagues are a higher standard due to riders having lower averages in those league compared to UK and quoted Crumpy and NKI as examples. I quoted Richardson as the theory falls apart.

 

Why don't you ask him?

You have an almighty high opinion of yourself if you really think this whole thread revolves around you. I could not give a dman who said something as I replay to the posts and comment on this forum, rarely do I post in reply to a person.

 

you're still the one asking questions about riders averages in certain leagues. I DONT KNOW. I DONT CARE. You ask him, don't ask me, or even ask me to ask him!

 

BTW, Elite League Pairs = International Meeting?! LOL. International is FIM/World Championship meetings that all nations compete in. So SWC, GP rounds and the British final.

Edited September 20, 2006 by SCB

[Grachan]

Vargarna's team was restricted by lack of funds and Rynbik were placed in E-liga with two weeks to go.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alright then. Suppose top of the Swedish League VMS Edit were in the Elite League.

 

Jarek Hampel 7.50

Rune Holta 7.50

Lee Richardson 6.54

Piotr Paluch 4.00

Peter Ljung (!!) 4.5ish??

Thomas H Jonasson 4.00

Rafal Trojanowski 4.00

Niklas Larsson 4.00

 

Thats approx 42.04 for 8 riders! Take out one of the various unknown 4 pointers and they are on around 38 points. How is that stronger than an EL team?

 

Whata about Rospiggarna? Three Reading riders in their team - Hancock, Kolodjiez and McGowan. Compare the rest of the teams:

 

Reading: Zagar, Gjedde, Smith, Simota

Rospiggarna: Zabik, Davidsson, Chris Slabon, Andreas Messing, David Hillborg.

 

I'd say Reading look stronger in that department.

 

And so it goes on. Do you want me to write down the Bydgoszcz team from last week's Speedway Star?

 

Yes there are some stronger teams in those leagues, but there are also weaker teams. At the end of the day the leagues are probably of similar strength, but the EL teams are more evenly balanced.