norbold Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Poor Brian doesn't get the best of reviews does he? I wonder why???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Sorry Speedyguy, the Brian Belton book I was referring to was of course the one about Bluey. Norbold I haven't read any of Brian Belton's books so excuse my ignorance of their quality. Given the generally supportive nature of all those in the Speedway written media it just sticks out a little bit when 2 of his tomes get criticised. Maybe you could elaborate why this would be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Doug, I think there is something going down here which does not add up to me. Must admit i found it a bit strange that this book was out,Jim.Just hope it isn't the case of someone finding out there is a book coming out(well researched by the sound of it)and quickly knocked one out before the other was finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 JC was irked that BB had Wilknson coming to England in 1928 determined to win the world championship - which didn't start offically (forget those early French versions) until 1936. I'm no great fan of Dr Belton - but do know that the idea of a world 'short track' championship was mooted first in the USA and that the Epping 'first day' had (originally - when it was going to be held in what is now barking park) been hoped to be billed as a world championship - initial motivation of first wave of Australian riders was the notion that a wc would be organised in England... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I wonder why???? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> not one of the usual suspects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Sorry Speedyguy, the Brian Belton book I was referring to was of course the one about Bluey.Norbold I haven't read any of Brian Belton's books so excuse my ignorance of their quality. Given the generally supportive nature of all those in the Speedway written media it just sticks out a little bit when 2 of his tomes get criticised. Maybe you could elaborate why this would be so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> again - I am a Hyam man, so not in the business of supporting Dr Belton's offerings...but as far as I can see he is justifiably made the butt of intolerance as he is not a journalist nor a professional writer...but merely a fan!! asking for trouble I trust you would agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Maybe he is made the butt of intolerance because his books are not very good and mostly second hand. Nothing to do with him being a fan. Most speedway books are written by fans rather than professional writers but they don't, by and large, come in for the same criticism. And, although he may not be a professional writer, he has had 14 books published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Majority of Speedway books (apart from the recent wave of Autobiographies) are written by people I would class as fans. John Chaplin always conveyed his love of the sport in his articles as have Norbold, Brian Burford, Peter Foster and Chris Fenn in their various works. I guess the distinction is being a fan who can write professionally or a fan who can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Maybe he is made the butt of intolerance because his books are not very good and mostly second hand. Nothing to do with him being a fan. Most speedway books are written by fans rather than professional writers but they don't, by and large, come in for the same criticism. And, although he may not be a professional writer, he has had 14 books published. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you'll find it's closer to 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 again - I am a Hyam man, so not in the business of supporting Dr Belton's offerings...but as far as I can see he is justifiably made the butt of intolerance as he is not a journalist nor a professional writer...but merely a fan!! asking for trouble I trust you would agree <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just what of note has John Hyam written on speedway? He's basically just reporting things as they happen as distinct from doing anything with deep research. I have followed him in the South London Press for many years - it's all just been up to date reporting. Cannot recall anything else - although I must concede he does range from things like baseball, stock cars, speedway, women's football, football generally, skater hockey and similar. He also does a good book review - ask Brian Belton and as I previously posted today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Majority of Speedway books (apart from the recent wave of Autobiographies) are written by people I would class as fans. John Chaplin always conveyed his love of the sport in his articles <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The wonderful Mr Chaplin has been an esteemed professional writer and journalist for many a year and has a long and glorious association with some of the best journals...as for Dr Belton's ability and accuracy, I have no gripes...annoyingly... but it is a question of style...what the reader wants is facts, facts and more facts...that is what speedway books are, real speedway books packed with lists and tables...it is the harking back to the days before adulthood when boys find it important to categorise...it provides feeling of security in an insecure world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Just what of note has John Hyam written on speedway? He's basically just reporting things as they happen as distinct from doing anything with deep research. I have followed him in the South London Press for many years - it's all just been up to date reporting. Cannot recall anything else - although I must concede he does range from things like baseball, stock cars, speedway, women's football, football generally, skater hockey and similar. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly...(not forgetting hotrods of course) this is the very stuff of sport...one with insight into all things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I'm no great fan of Dr Belton - but do know that the idea of a world 'short track' championship was mooted first in the USA and that the Epping 'first day' had (originally - when it was going to be held in what is now barking park) been hoped to be billed as a world championship - initial motivation of first wave of Australian riders was the notion that a wc would be organised in England... The original venue proposed by the Ilford club for the meeting that eventually was staged at High Beech (Epping) was PARSLOES PARK not Barking Park. Close but no cigar!! Now of course the mystery behind my name on this Forum is out...!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 The original venue proposed by the Ilford club for the meeting that eventually was staged at High Beech (Epping) was PARSLOES PARK not Barking Park. Close but no cigar!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> incorrect...the first suggested venue was barking park (to be a little more exact on or near the site where the lido was built in the 1930s) when permission was refused (it seems on the premise of its proximity to private housing) there was an approach to Parsloes park which also proved unsuccessful...the Epping venue almost fell through as well but initial police concerns were never officially lodged....seems there were some 'creative' negotiators around at the time...no cigar thank you...I'm a pipe man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) Must admit i found it a bit strange that this book was out,Jim.Just hope it isn't the case of someone finding out there is a book coming out(well researched by the sound of it)and quickly knocked one out before the other was finished. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, that is puzzling. It's been well known for some years that Deb Cherry was researching for her book on Fay Taylour - then suddenly Brian Belton appears with his offering. But then I suppose, all's fair in love and war, so to speak. That sudden BB offering really is a mystery - and one must ponder on the wisdom of your words. Are you on the right track (pardon the pun)? More puzzling is (1) the original slamming of John Hyam's review (first posting) then the posting of John Hyam's review (on page two) and trying to get an estimate of the worth of both. Trouble is, it's hard to reconcile both if you haven't seen the Fay Taylour book - which I haven't. It would be interesting if somebody who has read BB's book could let us know just how Hyam's review fits in with the book. More importantly, will there still be a book now from Deb Cherry about Fay? I guess the great lady (Fay) is smiling down on all this furore. I guess John Hyam may also smile if he sees this - that a small book review can provoke so much interest and comment. Edited July 26, 2006 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Don't know what all the fuss is about to be honest. Fay was an ok rider, but I much preferred her in King Kong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 More puzzling is (1) the original slamming of John Hyam's review (first posting) then the posting of John Hyam's review (on page two) and trying to get an estimate of the worth of both. Trouble is, it's hard to reconcile both if you haven't seen the Fay Taylour book - which I haven't. It would be interesting if somebody who has read BB's book could let us know just how Hyam's review fits in with the book. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did make the first comment and I think my high regard for Mr Hyam was demonstrated?? 'Slamming'??? I have indeed read the book...hence my slight issues with Mr Hyam's depiction of women riders as 'gimmicks' and his wrong assertion that Phil Bishop did not end his speedway days at West Ham...as I read the book it was many years in the making...seemingly longer than Ms Cherry's efforts...and much was gleaned from the presonal writings(letters, diaries etc) of Ms Taylour herself gained with the help of a close friend of Ms Taylour's - Ninette Gray and Sir Speedway himself - Reg Fearman...the book indicates there is more to follow...internment, car racing etc...for me the book lacks what so many speedway books have in massive proportions...where are the charts, where are the lists??? yes...the racing career is well details and there are a few charts etc, but as Mr Hyam points out, much time is given over to the background of Ms Taylour's life, her motivations etc...what made a woman break through in such a male dominated environment...but those of us steeped in the literature of speedway, those with a want for the figures...page after page of timings...a'la the wonderful work of Norman Jacobs...will be disappointed...yes it tells of a time, places (australia, Uk. Ireland etc) a person...but who is interested in all that?? Race times is what we want more of...track conditions...what we are used to in speedway publications...Hyam spends much of his review making this point and I think he speaks for the majority in this respect - good on him!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) The wonderful Mr Chaplin has been an esteemed professional writer and journalist for many a year and has a long and glorious association with some of the best journals...as for Dr Belton's ability and accuracy, I have no gripes...annoyingly... but it is a question of style...what the reader wants is facts, facts and more facts...that is what speedway books are, real speedway books packed with lists and tables...it is the harking back to the days before adulthood when boys find it important to categorise...it provides feeling of security in an insecure world... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's true John Chaplin is a professional writer, but, of all those who have produced speedway books in the last few years he is probably the only one. There are three things that irk me about Brian Belton's books (I haven't read the Fay Taylour book yet I have to say): 1. The amount of plagiarised material. 2. The severe inaccuracies. 3. The amont of irrelevant material. It has nothing to do with lists of facts as far as I am concerned. Once again there are many other books written by fans which don't have lists and tables which have not been criticised like Mr Belton's. Edited July 26, 2006 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie the Hammer Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 It's true John Chaplin is a professional writer, but, of all those who have produced speedway books in the last few years he is probably the only one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One must beg to differ...'all those in recent years' is undoubtedly inaccurate...I for one appreciate all efforts to do pay homage to the past of the track...we who are but readers bow to the efforts of the scribe...as to Dr Belton (another little inaccuracy there) I have now read three of his books and have no problem with the areas mentioned...but, for me, it is not in keeping with the traditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 What other professional writers have written speedway books in recent years then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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