SCB Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) It's called a tactical joker, they didn't cheat, they played it perfectly <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read the rules "No rider will be permitted more than one nomination, either as a Tactical substitute or as a Tactical “Joker”." He had two nominations, one as a tactical "joker" and one as a tactical substitute. It's worrying that the Aussie had two managers and Team GB had one as did the Finns and not one of the 4 noticed the mistake, nor the referee!!! Edited July 17, 2006 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Read the rules <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, if you're going to be that specific, I believe you need to take away poor old Kaj Laukkenen's point from his joker too, would you be that cruel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Read the rules "No rider will be permitted more than one nomination, either as a Tactical substitute or as a Tactical “Joker”." He had two nominations, one as a tactical "joker" and one as a tactical substitute. It's worrying that the Aussie had two managers and Team GB had one as did the Finns and not one of the 4 noticed the mistake, nor the referee!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Everyone does it Shawn ! Gollob had a 'tactical joker' there's nothing in the rules to say a joker must be used on someone already in the heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) No but there is a rule that says a single rider (Tomasz Gollob) can be nominated for either a tactical "joker" or as a tactical substitute. NOT BOTH as Gollob was. Now had Middlo been on the ball he'd have stopped this, Hampel was already a bit down and he'd have possibly not passed Bomber in the next heat and we'd have bene a point better off and forced a run off against teh Aussies. The team manager SHOULD know the rules! Edited July 17, 2006 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 No but there is a rule that says a single rider (Tomasz Gollob) can be nominated for either a tactical "joker" or as a tactical substitute. NOT BOTH as Gollob was. Now had Middlo bene on the ball he'd have stopped this, Hampel was already a bit down and he'd have possibly not passed Bomber in the next heat and we'd have bene a point better off and forced a run off against teh Aussies. The team manager SHOULD know the rules! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So why has no-one noticed before? This has happened many times since the new format was re-introduced. No-one has posted the definiton of a tactical joker as the rulebook dictates. I should imagine it allows a rider to gain double points from his own ride OR replace another rider in the team and the points he scores will be doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 078.9.3 Tactical SubstitutesWhen a team is six or more points in arrears of the leading team, the Team Manager may substitute a rider in the next or succeeding heats with another rider in his team, but such riders may be used as substitutes once only. Substitutions must stop when the team is less than six points in arrears. 078.9.4 Tactical “Joker" Points scored by a tactical “Joker” will be doubled. When a team is six or more points in arrears of the leading team, the Team Manager may substitute a rider in the next heat with another rider who will ride as the Tactical “Joker”. The Team Manager may also nominate a programmed rider as the Tactical “Joker” provided his team is six points in arrears of the leading team. Each team can use a Tactical “Joker” once only in the entire meeting. No rider will be permitted more than one nomination, either as a Tactical substitute or as a Tactical “Joker”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Here you go from the 2003 world cup programme : "Points scored by a tactical joker will be doubled. When a team in a four team competition is 6, or in a 5 team competition 8, or more points behind in arrears of the leading team, the team manager may substitue a rider in the next heat with another rider who will ride as the tactical joker. The team manager may also nominate a programmed rider as the tactical joker" So there EDIT - You've actually proved yourself wrong in your post! Edited July 17, 2006 by Silver Cheetah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Here you go from the 2003 world cup programme : It's 2006 Your post also proves nothing. It does not say if Gollob could ride as a tactical substitute in one heat and as a tactical "joker" in another. The rule book quite clearly says Poland could not do this. Edited July 17, 2006 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 And yet, you're quote says exactlly the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 It's 2006 Your post also proves nothing. It does not say if Gollob could ride as a tactical substitute in one heat and as a tactical "joker" in another. The rule book quite clearly says Poland could not do this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it proves that Poland used Tomasz as a legitimate tactical joker ! They didn't try to use him as a tactical substitute as well as a tactical joker so that is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Right as it was me that started this, perhaps it is quite literally like this: heat 22 - Gollob is a Tactical substitute for Jagus. heat 24 - Gollob in his own heat is tactical joker. Is this correct.? Whilst I can see this is actually a 'grey' area, I can see how they got away with it I think.!! If taken literally this rule should have stopped this happening, as although one heat was his own, he actually was nominated for 2 tacticals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 No, it proves that Poland used Tomasz as a legitimate tactical joker ! They didn't try to use him as a tactical substitute as well as a tactical joker so that is irrelevant. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes they did in heat 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Snackette Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Right as it was me that started this, perhaps it is quite literally like this: heat 22 - Gollob is a Tactical substitute for Jagus. heat 24 - Gollob in his own heat is tactical joker. Is this correct.? Whilst I can see this is actually a 'grey' area, I can see how they got away with it I think.!! If taken literally this rule should have stopped this happening, as although one heat was his own, he actually was nominated for 2 tacticals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Badge, having supplied you with a copy of the rules, I think you need to download the meeting spreadsheet. From this you will notice that Tomasz replaced Jagus in Heat 22, as a tactical joker, quite legitimately as per rule 078.9.4. Heat 24 was his own programmed ride. So all above board and nothing to get grizzly about. Just as well SCB isn't the GB Team manager!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Thank you it's quite clear when it's explained to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Superb meeting after the first few heats. I do enjoy the world cup week. Can't think of one world cup where we haven't seen tremendous racing. The race off is always the best meeting as well, so hopefully a good one on Thursday. We'll win the race off and be up there in the final, but are going to fall short as we don't have enough world class riders when it gets to the pressure heats. Aussies will win it, but the bonus is they all have bad barnets. Wiltshire, Sullivan and Adams going bald, Boyce is bald and Crump has a ginger mullett(dear me!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ignore the first half , because the second half was fantastic. What a performance from our boys, and I thought in the end we were a little unlucky not to nick it. Crump should have been excluded, and we lost points in the re-run. The same later as the Aussies had the damage minimised by us not managing to make the start in a re-run heat. What happens happens, but just a tad unlucky. Never mind. We got closer than anybody thought we would and gave 'the big boys' a real scare on the night. Roll on the rest of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 We got closer than anybody thought we would and gave 'the big boys' a real scare on the night. But we have a team of "big boys" as you call them ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Well yes, but the Aussies and Poles were the faves on the night. I was just referring to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addy Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Think you were watching a different meeting then, virtually every heat in the last 10 heats had some sort of passing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are these the same people who say they can't see any passing at BV ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Credit to GB,i didnt give them any chance. Middlo knows the form book,if he reads it correctly there is NO CHANCE of stead riding on thursday,he is mediocre round reading to say the least. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Didnt Steady ride as a guest for Zagar when he was missing matchesin the PL last season and scored maximum after maximum cant be that bad around there - Same 5 riders to be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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