Paulco Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 we were talking the other day about one of my favourite ever tigers riders - charlie monk. and i remember when the tigers rode at hampden park ( i was only about twelve at the time ) charlie was dragged kicking and screaming down to ride for sheffield for a season.it was blamed on the SCB - something about rider allocation. was this average based ? and as i remember charlie actually guested for us on numerous occassions that summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 we were talking the other day about one of my favourite ever tigers riders - charlie monk. and i remember when the tigers rode at hampden park ( i was only about twelve at the time ) charlie was dragged kicking and screaming down to ride for sheffield for a season.it was blamed on the SCB - something about rider allocation. was this average based ? and as i remember charlie actually guested for us on numerous occassions that summer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't think it was average based. Think it was a case of taking a rider away from the top teams and reallocating them to the bottom teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Ah, the dreaded rider control. It seemed pretty random who they moved and where to as far as I could see. Some examples I can think of - Martin Ashby being moved to Exeter after Swindon won the league. Soren Karlsson being allocated to Swindon in 1975. Ivan Mauger said in Backtrack that Belle Vue tended to be given consideration because of their history, although he was eventually moved on too as the team was too strong. Ole Olsen was allocated to Oxford in 1975 but refused to go there, which possibly was the beginning of the end of the system. Oxford ended up with Dag Lovaas instead. Not sure the exact details of Ole Olsen, but I know he was at Wolves at the time and said he wanted to ride for Coventry instead of Oxford and stood his ground. Did he go to Coventry that year or was it later? Perhaps someone else will know more about that. Edited March 22, 2006 by Grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Ole Olsen rode for Wolverhampton in 1975 and went to Coventry in 1976. I don't think the old rider allocation was scientifically worked out on averages. As barrow boy says, it was more a case of just taking a top rider away from the top team(s) and allocating them to teams at the bottom. A number of riders refused to go to the teams they were allocated to. Sometimes they got away with, other times they didn't. I suppose it depended on how strong a character you were. Edited March 22, 2006 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Dixon Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Ah, the dreaded rider control. It seemed pretty random who they moved and where to as far as I could see. Some examples I can think of - Martin Ashby being moved to Exeter after Swindon won the league. Soren Karlsson being allocated to Swindon in 1975. Ivan Mauger said in Backtrack that Belle Vue tended to be given consideration because of their history, although he was eventually moved on too as the team was too strong. Ole Olsen was allocated to Oxford in 1975 but refused to go there, which possibly was the beginning of the end of the system. Oxford ended up with Dag Lovaas instead. Not sure the exact details of Ole Olsen, but I know he was at Wolves at the time and said he wanted to ride for Coventry instead of Oxford and stood his ground. Did he go to Coventry that year or was it later? Perhaps someone else will know more about that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Olsen was allocated to Hull(in IT's book) but wanted and got Coventry after IT 'negotiated' a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Olsen was allocated to Oxford in 75. A quote from the opening meetings programme "Already a tremendous boost to our team has been the allocation of the Danish star,and former World Champion,Ole Olsen. We are well aware of the need for a top class number one rider,and in Ole we have assured the services of the best number one in the World and wish him good luck in our colours" Olsen had other ideas though.He refused to go(in the Spring Classic programme he is listed without a club) as he wanted to go to Coventry and got his way a year later(i think) It could be that he was allocated to both clubs though as Mick Hines in backtrack states he was allocated to Coventry and Wimbledon and chose the Dons.The year before he was allocated to Belle Vue and refused to budge Edited March 22, 2006 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) I still remember rider control wistfully! While it had a number of advantages over the current system, there were two problems with rider control: Firstly, the clubs volunteered which riders they were prepared to release - so, for example, Belle Vue chose to release Ivan Mauger, but when they won the league Ipswich were only prepared to release Mick Hines (5 or 6 in their averages, I think.) Consequently, the system was never fair or equal to all parties. That's not entirely true - there were suggestions about who should be released (as when the Aces were forced to give up Chris Pusey and Soren Sjosten), but it was managed by the goodwill of the clubs involved - and therefore would never work now. Second, the riders weren't automatically allocated to the clubs most in need - they still had to bid for the riders. In Mauger's case, he only agreed a deal with Exeter when they agreed to keep a set of bikes and a mechanic down there for him, with the rider being flown down from his Bramhall base (about a mile from where I used to live in Cheadle!) to Exeter airport. Not too different from some of the deals negotiated by foreign riders these days, but it was quite revolutionary at the time. The clubs at the bottom of the league couldn't necessarily compete with the deals to bring in top riders like Mauger, regardless of who came on the market. Edited March 22, 2006 by AndyM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 The other problem of course Andy was that riders could be allocated to tracks that were not suitable,because of travelling time or other commitments.Riders maybe didn't like their allocated track. Think Tony Clarke waited a year to come to Wimbledon,didn't get on there and within a few months was gone. Wimbledon also welcomed Christer Lofqvist into the team in 76,only for him to refuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 The other problem of course Andy was that riders could be allocated to tracks that were not suitable,because of travelling time or other commitments.Riders maybe didn't like their allocated track.Think Tony Clarke waited a year to come to Wimbledon,didn't get on there and within a few months was gone. Wimbledon also welcomed Christer Lofqvist into the team in 76,only for him to refuse <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On the subject of Tony Clarke, Iris, whatever happened to him? I remember him breaking through from the second halves at West Ham and becoming a decent rider - I seem to remember him even touring Australia with the British Lions. He was also a colourful character, and Dave Lanning's publicity at the time had it that he had previously been a "ton-up" racer on the North Circular Road, from memory. Did he just disappear out of the sport after a relatively short career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 There was always the strong feeling that some clubs were treated more favourably than others. In John Berry's book he bought the licence to West Ham(including riders) but then states that Christer Lofqvist (the No 1) was spirited away to Poole who were then run by the influential Charles Foote(I think). I remember Cradley being refused permission to keep Jan Simensen one year who then got allocated to the Ochiltree show at Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) The other problem of course Andy was that riders could be allocated to tracks that were not suitable,because of travelling time or other commitments.Riders maybe didn't like their allocated track. Think Tony Clarke waited a year to come to Wimbledon,didn't get on there and within a few months was gone. Wimbledon also welcomed Christer Lofqvist into the team in 76,only for him to refuse <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very true, Iris. For all that, I'd prefer some sort of pooling system with preference being given to weaker clubs to the chaotic and legally dubious system we currently have. Anything which nudges the careers of British riders in preference to the tide of low-end foreigners would also be desirable. We've had the American draft system proposed as one possible model - I wonder if there's any other way rider control could be modernised to correct its known failings? Edited March 23, 2006 by AndyM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 There was always the strong feeling that some clubs were treated more favourably than others. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some things never change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Tony Clarke spent quite a few years in the sport. I remember his team debut for West Ham at Wimbledon in the Knock-Out Cup quarter final replay on 14 August 1965, now immortalised as chapter 10 in that fine book, Speedway's Classic Meetings. For the rest of that year whenever he rode in the West Ham team, the Hammers never lost. He became a sort of lucky mascot. He moved to Oxford in 1966, returned to West Ham in 1967 where he stayed until 1970. He then moved to Wembley in 1971, Newport in 1972, Wimbledon for the start of 1972 before going on to Wolverhampton later in the season, remaining there until 1975. I'm not sure what happened to him after that, or where he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Thanks Norman. I now remember West Ham's long winning run when Tony joined them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 (edited) Chris Pusey was also not very happy being made to move away from Belle Vue to Halifax. Just seen in an old Speedway Star,Olsen was in 74 trying to leave Wolves(quote:"Unless i get a move to another track who will meet my terms,I will walk out of British League speedway."),who were having trouble with Robin Adlington,who was refusing to go there On the flipside,there were riders who were happy to get moved away.Phil Crump wanted away from King's Lynn because he was behind Betts and Simmons in the pecking order and was very happy to be allocated to Newport where he joined Neil Street Edited March 23, 2006 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 He moved to Oxford in 1966, returned to West Ham in 1967 where he stayed until 1970. He then moved to Wembley in 1971, Newport in 1972, Wimbledon for the start of 1972 before going on to Wolverhampton later in the season, remaining there until 1975. I'm not sure what happened to him after that, or where he is now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He did have a break for the 74 season.Was convicted of receiving stolen goods,i.e bikes and equipment nicked from the Russian riders who were here for the World Final.Found the stuff at his brothers house a few days later.Not sure if they both spent time in prison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes, I thought I'd gloss over 1974.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes, I thought I'd gloss over 1974.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well the "remaining there until 1975" would be a falsehood unless thats where he done his time.Pity his career went awry as he did look a contender for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 He was on Wolverhampton's retained list in 1974... It was just that he was unable to fulfill any fixtures. It happens sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 He was transfered a couple of times during the year though Norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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