barrow boy Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Last year the best rider won but because it is now easier for the best riders to reach the last 8 and with the big points only being available in finals I would suggest to BSI that they consider providing more big points as follows. Ist 25pts, 2nd 20pts, 3rd 18pts, 4th 16pts, each 3rd placed semi finalist 14pts, each 4th placed semi finalist 12pts, others to keep their scores. The best rider will still win but the overall competition would be more interesting. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
home straight Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I see you point, it would make it closer, and slightly further down the field this would be a good thing but, you said yourself the best rider won, isn't this the ideal scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If it were me, I'd do away with the semis and final altogether and use finishing scores to carry forward to the Championship tally. Will never happen, but it's far and away the most open and transparent system, and more likely to reward effort for riders outside the top 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted January 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If it were me, I'd do away with the semis and final altogether and use finishing scores to carry forward to the Championship tally. Will never happen, but it's far and away the most open and transparent system, and more likely to reward effort for riders outside the top 8. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You could be right but each occasion really deserves a climax that is provided by the final and top 3 presentations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 If it were me, I'd do away with the semis and final altogether and use finishing scores to carry forward to the Championship tally. Will never happen, but it's far and away the most open and transparent system, and more likely to reward effort for riders outside the top 8. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahh but it could! You allocate world championship points related to the finishing order after 20 heats. You then hold a Final consisting of the top four, of course, to compete purely for the Grand Prix title and any associated prize money. The media gets it's grand finale, the championship is unaffected and we all go home with smiley faces!! Come on BSI. Think outside the box!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 In response to the initial suggestion by barrow boy : If a rider wins all 5 of his races and then has an exclusion or engine failure in the semi final, you send him home with 12 points. In the current scoring system he goes home with 15. The losing semi finalists are given their meeting points to encourage them to race for as many points as possible during the 20 heats, rather than just settling for a low qualifying score. I also don't like the suggestion of having semi finals and finals that do not count towards the World Championship. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would look if a ride won every GP round but didn't win the World title? They could maybe consider dropping the winners points from 25 back down to 20 to keep things closer, but really we saw a freak season last year where Tony completely dominated everyone else. That's not likely to happen too often. Basically, I am saying that I think they have things set up pretty well for the current format, but I'd still rather have the old knockout system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Basically, I am saying that I think they have things set up pretty well for the current format, but I'd still rather have the old knockout system!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very diplomatic of you HenryW, given that your hero (Pepe P) was clearly pretty much useless under the old format, where he apparently faced too much pressure in his races. Given we agree Pepe is likely to benefit from the current structure (until any semi-finals he makes ) I am refreshingly surprised by your advocacy of the previous system. I think the current system will work and agree that we saw something of a freak year in 2005. We might see the same again in 2006, but, assuming TR disappears into the night with his millions of $s, the future will see a far more competitive series given the currently in force regulations. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjw ministerofport Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I think the BSI is doing just fine, especially as they are now introducing a qualifying system. Last years formula for me was the better of the GP systems, how ever I do still love the idea of the old system over twenty heats. Changing systems every year is not good policy, but it does show that they are trying to give the best standard they can. And also that they do listen to criticism. Just for something to do, I have put a different system down for criticism. Problems Point’s gap Prize money No mention of individual GP’s won (why not give individual a title, i.e. win at Cardiff British Champion.) Old one day system the best. The first twenty heats of a GP are as standard, with the points awarded as they are now. The top eight riders then go forward to the semi finals. These riders contest for the title of champion of Britain. The first place rider gets say 100,000 euros. No extra points are awarded for the semi finalists or the finalists. By finishing in the top eight, their positions count towards the last GP, which is raced over the old twenty heat system. To get to the final, riders need to reach the semi finals or finals as often as they can. For the last GP all the top sixteen riders take place, if there are not enough riders with semi or final places, the individual points come into the selection. Pluses for this. I’m sure that the last GP would be a sell out in even the biggest stadium. The suspense would go right down to the last meeting. Riders would be introduced at every track as Champion of say Britain. A rider could win 1,000,000 euros in one series. The prize money may be un- realistic, I don’t know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Qualifying system? Must have missed that. I thought they'd reverted to a secretive back-room selection process without any on-track qualification. Can anyone expand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) Qualifying system? Must have missed that. I thought they'd reverted to a secretive back-room selection process without any on-track qualification. Can anyone expand? HERE Edited January 22, 2006 by tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Sorry, but anything less than an opportunity for every rider to qualify every season is unsatisfactory. It must be totally free and open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 So who qualifies to take part in the qualifying rounds and how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 So who qualifies to take part in the qualifying rounds and how? I could be wrong, but I believe that the 3 qualifying rounds have a certain number of places allocated for each nation, just as the qualifying rounds had in the "old days". It is up to the individual national federations to nominate the riders that they want to represent them in these meetings. How the federations select these riders is entirely up to them. They can hold qualifying rounds including every possible rider, or they can just nominate who-ever they like...just like it was in the "old days" Personally, I am quite confused as to why these meetings have been introduced again. With all due respect to Tomasz Chrzanowski, his inclusion in the 2005 series proved that BSI were right to bin the qualifiers in the first place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 "Allocation"? Not qualifications from the national championships then? The British Final has been all but meaningless since the GP started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 "Allocation"? Not qualifications from the national championships then? The British Final has been all but meaningless since the GP started. I don't think is any different from how it used to be. In days gone by, Britain had x places in the FIM qualifying rounds and it was entirely up to the British authorities to decide how those places were filled. They chose to do this through the British Final, but other Nations simply selected the riders they wanted to represent them. I find it strange you say that British Final has become all but meaningless. Do you not think that being crowned our National Champion is worth anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Are you telling me British riders care much about it, without the reward of potential GP qualification at stake? In any case, we can only field half a dozen riders who are worthy of the name of British Champion? Compare the field of the last British Final to, say, 1975 and you'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 In response to the initial suggestion by barrow boy : If a rider wins all 5 of his races and then has an exclusion or engine failure in the semi final, you send him home with 12 points. In the current scoring system he goes home with 15. The losing semi finalists are given their meeting points to encourage them to race for as many points as possible during the 20 heats, rather than just settling for a low qualifying score. I also don't like the suggestion of having semi finals and finals that do not count towards the World Championship. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would look if a ride won every GP round but didn't win the World title? They could maybe consider dropping the winners points from 25 back down to 20 to keep things closer, but really we saw a freak season last year where Tony completely dominated everyone else. That's not likely to happen too often. Basically, I am saying that I think they have things set up pretty well for the current format, but I'd still rather have the old knockout system! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But the Semi finals and Finals in each GP would count towards the overall result because there are better points to be raced for. You are quite correct to point out however that it is possible to be worse off and I therefore concede that if any qualifying score is not improved then this should be retained. Also do you mean if the same rider top scores in all the GP's up to the Semi's and fails to win the title overall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I t is ridiculous to suggest Tony Rickardssons' GP World Titles are devalued because the series is invitational. The exact opposite should be true. There are no Continental Final qualifiers anymore who apart from when the Final was in Poland were purely making up numbers and most, not all I hasten to add, were not fit to be in the final yet there were years in the 70s when Olsen, Collins, Michanek all failed to qualify for whatever reason when they would have been real contenders for the World Title. No one riders World Title is worth more than any other, they were all achieved under the system prevailing at the time and each had to be the best under those conditions In my opinion the GP system in its various guises is the best means of finding the best rider in the world for a specific season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Very diplomatic of you HenryW, given that your hero (Pepe P) was clearly pretty much useless under the old format, where he apparently faced too much pressure in his races. Given we agree Pepe is likely to benefit from the current structure (until any semi-finals he makes ) I am refreshingly surprised by your advocacy of the previous system. I think the current system will work and agree that we saw something of a freak year in 2005. We might see the same again in 2006, but, assuming TR disappears into the night with his millions of $s, the future will see a far more competitive series given the currently in force regulations. Rico <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Will be useless under this system to. To old and to slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrow boy Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 How about reintroducing the 4 finals that featured originally? The top 4 to contest the A Final, the next 4 the B Final etc. A Final points to be 25-20-18-16.B Final points to be 15-13-12-11, C Final points to be 10-8-7-6, D Final points to be 5-3-2-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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