Unsuccessful American's

[Grachan]

Perhaps,Canadian Star, in an age where negativity seems fashionable, at least according to British daily newspapers, this is only to be expected.  This, I find, can be quite depressing at times.

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So what you are saying is that we cannot comment on the standards of certain speedway riders at the risk of causing offence. Is this not, to all intents and purposes, Political Correctness and has it not, in fact, gone COMPLETELY mad!!

 

The classic Unsuccesful Americans were, of course, Mike Bast and Bruce Penhall in the 1977(?) Overseas Final at White City.

[stevehone]

So what you are saying is that we cannot comment on the standards of certain speedway riders at the risk of causing offence. Is this not, to all intents and purposes, Political Correctness and has it not, in fact, gone COMPLETELY mad!!

 

The classic Unsuccesful Americans were, of course, Mike Bast and Bruce Penhall in the 1977(?) Overseas Final at White City.

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Grachan ... to avoid the risk of upsetting BertHoven, we are only allowed to mention the likes of Bobby (chunky junkie) Schwartz, Dennis (nice boy) Sigalos, and Bruce (i'll drop Cradley in the crap) Penhall ... the real American failures that have ridden here

 

the fact that this is a thread about 'Unsuccessful Americans' doesn't come into it.

[Canadian Star]

Steve i am sorry but you've lost me, but i have to agree with your comment, which time has allowed me to forget, that they did also bring a certain new lifestyle with them. In many people's opinion, an influence that began the demise of a former world champion.

Getting back on topic i am not saying that criticism isn't allowed, but the suggestion that because some of these riders didn't become world champion then they're no good, that is negativity. They were what they were, nothing more nothing less, they came, gave it a go, some made it some didn't, they were mostly colourful characters. In some peoples opinion they were nice guys, in others they were bad eggs, depending on your tolerance of mind altering substances, a situation that is tolerated, seen as exceptable behaviour in North America, a situation i find difficult to understand having lived here for 2 1/2 years.

The suggestion that Lance King was in any way unsuccessful, i find laughable, anyone who becomes world number 3 has to be taken seriously. There were a number of unsuccessful Americans, who were unable to adapt to larger tracks than they were used to at home.

[bulldog 77 / 78]

No one here has mentioned the former US number 2 - and probably the most feared.....STEVE GRESHAM. Although he had more "ups and downs"than a Blackpool donkey, he was still a good rider!

[stansolo]

Mark Cherry Birmingham 1976 (cousin of Bruce Penhall) lasted 3-4 meetings then went home.

 

 

Gene Woods Birmingham 1981(big home reputation before coming to the UK), lasted approx 6 meetings before joining Eastbourne / Wimbledon, still went home shortly after.

[Dekker]

McConnell would have made it if his equipment had been any good, Bart Bast just couldnt adapt to the foreign lifestyle like so many yanks although I personally would have stuck with him the following year as he had real talent.

[Sotonian]

How about Ivan Blacka?

I remember him riding for Edinburgh with some success. Didn't he also ride for Wolves, or at least double-up, rather less successfully?

[AndyM]

I remember Larry Kosta well, he had a very shaky start, and would fall off nearly all the time, but once he got going, he was okay - he was never going to be a world champion, but he did an okay job as a second string. I remember him rattling off six second places at Halifax in one match....

Eddie Ingels came to us halfway though a season in the mid 1980's, and he never really got to grips with the Hyde Road circuit. I remember one story that when he first arrived at Hyde Road, being used to tiny tracks in the states - he thought the track was more like a motorway than a speedway track!!! Eddie never could be faulted for effort though, and I always remember him blasting around the outside of the opposition reserve on the pits bend near the end of the season, and doing a lap of honour, punching the air like he had won the World Championship!! Great memories - I wonder what Larry and Eddie are doing now.

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Talking of Eddie Ingels (brought over from Newky by Ian Thomas as I recall), I remember one meeting he rode in, partnered by Chris Morton. Against Halifax, if memory serves me right. Mort was in second place and Ingels trailing in last until Mort slowed right down, waited for the Duke to try to pass him, then blatantly fenced him to allow Ingels to come home to steal a point. Later, Ingels was a guest at the supporter's club and was asked about this incident. He was utterly astonished at the hard riding that was allowed to stand. "Wouldn't happen in the States," he said!

 

Larry Kosta didn't really make it, though he never forgave the promotion for dropping him and went home in a huff. Terry O'Connor is a mate of Larry. Gather he watches speedway over in California and is doing quite nicely with his family business.

[spin king]

How about Ivan Blacka?

I remember him riding for Edinburgh with some success. Didn't he also ride for Wolves, or at least double-up, rather less successfully?

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I don't think that he was an American.

[andout]

I don't think that he was an American.

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Yep...he was an American......watched him a few times at Owego, NY before he went to England, sorry Scotland. I may not be right when I say this so don't quote me but I think he did have patronage somewhere along the line.

Can't figure this one out though....Ivan actually rode for England against Scotland at Edinburgh in 1981 scoring 11 points & 1982.

I think Ivan was from Philadelphia.

Edited November 21, 2005 by andout

[spin king]

Yep...he was an American......watched him a few times at Owego, NY before he went to England, sorry Scotland. I may not be right when I say this so don't quote me but I think he did have patronage somewhere along the line.

Can't figure this one out though....Ivan actually rode for England against Scotland  at Edinburgh in 1981 scoring 11 points & 1982.

I think Ivan was from Philadelphia.

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I bow to your better knowledge.

[greyhoundp]

Canadian Star  In many people's opinion, an influence that began the demise of a former world champion.

 

Slightly off Topic, you can lead a dog to water but you cannot make it drink,this person could have said NO.

Back on topic Lance King all the potential in the world,sadly unfulfilled.

[rami]

Grachan ... to avoid the risk of upsetting BertHoven, we are only allowed to mention the likes of Bobby (chunky junkie) Schwartz, Dennis (nice boy) Sigalos, and Bruce (i'll drop Cradley in the crap) Penhall ...

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Steve - Penhall might have cost us the league in 1982 but he will always be a legend at Cradley, He along with Dan Mcormack transformed cradley from the day he arrived, He helped win our first league title and gave me and many fans our greatest night in the sport in 1981 when he won the world final. You obviousley dont like the American riders and im sure you have your reasons but maybe your tarring them all with the same brush so to speak!! I always speak as i find but i had the pleasure of growing up watching the likes of Bruce, Lance,Greg and Billy- 3 world champions and a world number 3, all four top class riders and very nice people who always gave 100 per cent for cradley. Maybe you should ask yourself what you would have done had you been offered the the opportunaties that Bruce was.

 

One thing is for sure the sport could certainly do with a Penhall in its ranks right now and in my opinion love them or hate them our sport was much better when there were plenty Americans racing over here.

[stevehone]

love them or hate them our sport was much better when there were plenty Americans racing over here.

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.... and Mike Lee (and others) might have gone on to bigger and better if they weren't over here.

 

 

 

it's not that i didn't like watching the Americans ... there were some good riders in there, it's more a dig at the culture they brought with them that brought the sport down when we really could have done without it.

i always hated my team riding against the likes of Penhall, Schwartz, Sigalos, the Morans, Autrey etc because i knew they would be good for plenty of points, but the thread is about the ones that weren't quite so successful in the UK and my entry was Brad Oxley.

 

i was at Wembley in '81 when Penhall won and it was such a great atmosphere that night, and i was also at the L.A Colisseum in '82 to see the home bias come through when it came to making decisions ... even had a run-in with some Cradley supporters in Disneyland over them supporting the Yanks and not someone like Kenny Carter.

[Ian]

.... and Mike Lee (and others) might have gone on to bigger and better if they weren't over here.

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Steve, you must be referring to some incident that took place when I was out of speedway. The implication is that the Americans brought drugs into speedway. Is that right?

[stevehone]

the implication is that they 'allegedly' made it more widespread within the sport at a time when speedway was being dragged down anyway

Edited November 23, 2005 by stevehone

[Grachan]

Anyone who thinks Steve is just stirring here should read John Berry's 'Confessions' book. He mentions a England v USA test match at Ipswich where the entire USA Team were acting, shall we say, unnaturally in the pits.

 

I don't think you can blame anyone for Mike Lee's downfall other than Mike himself though.

[fatface]

Here, here Grachan. Mike Lee was a big boy and he's made his own decisions in life that have sometimes taken him down the wrong route. Loving the new avatar by the way!

 

Here's another one ... Buddy Robinson who rode for Exeter in 84. Maybe if he'd come back to the UK after the one year, he might have done something, but never did...

[stevehone]

Lee made his own decisions but when temptation is in your face ......

[Subedei]

Dear me, it looks like we're heading towards blaming the drugs crisis the country faces now on a handful of American speedway riders from the early-to-mid-1980s.