Tactical Ride / Tactical Substitutes Poll.

[Peregrinner]

I will express my view which is that although there are problems with the Tactical Rule I think it made for a tremendous finish in the Peterborough v. Reading fixture.

 

Peterborough were down and out with no chance unless everything went for them including the Tactical Ride. It did and they won from nowhere.

 

Speedway traditionalists will always argue that "It is not like it used to be" well I am a cricket traditionalist and I prefer whites to pyjamas and I prefer 50 overs to 20 overs but I cannot argue with the paying public. They love the 20-20 format.

 

Speedway has to make the sport interesting and maintain that interest throughout a contest, regardless of the thoughts of those who know which is the best team (Reading). Two Tactical Rides allow a side that is down and out completely two chances to come back, so there is always hope (usually it does not materialise).

 

Speedway needs an injection of life and I think the Tactical Rides add that life. Away supporters who are 20 points to 4 down after 4 heats can think "There is always the Tactical Ride" and keep the faith instead of heading for the bar to drown their sorrows.

 

Another change that I think is necessary is that all senior teams should have a set of young reserves so that if a reserve gets injured in heat 2 it does not mean that one rider has to do all seven, or if there are two injuries some heats are run with only three riders. Unlimited 3 point reserves would (in my opinion) benefit the sport.

 

Just an opinion.

[HarryA]

As a former Team Manager I deplore the current tactical rule, which was brought in to save money. I can't help but wonder how many people have stopped going because of it, in which case has it achieved anything? My preference is for the original rule which was any team in arrears of 6 points or more, after heat 4, had choice of gate positions and could put out a tactical change, provided that all members of the team had a minimum of 2 rides. This gave scope to the Team Manager to produce a closer match and gave the paying public better value for their admission money, with no loss of credibility like the present situation. One other comment is why do very few meetings start on time nowadays, and why long delays between heats? There is no valid excuse for this as during my time at Cleveland Park with Reg Fearman and the late Ron Wilson, as the parade returned to the pits the riders who were in heat 1 parked their bikes on the track, in addition heat 2 machines and riders were ready to go out as soon as the previous heat returned to the pits. We did get some complaints but these were from Reg or Ron that the announcer hadn't had time to put over information which they had requested.

[norbold]

One other comment is why do very few meetings start on time nowadays, and why long delays between heats? There is no valid excuse for this

Maybe it's because they now have to fill the evening with 15 heats instead of the 20+ we used to get when we got value for money.

[False dawn]

Maybe it's because they now have to fill the evening with 15 heats instead of the 20+ we used to get when we got value for money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny that. On Friday at Brandon, I was thinking about the Golden Sash competition that used to be run during the second half at Coventry. It was always a chance for the top boys to gain some revenge for defeats during the main meeting and ensured that the crowd stayed until the end of the meeting. The good old days eh?

 

As to the TR/TS debate; it does seem to be rather strange to any outsiders that a rider can be awarded double points just because his team are not doing very well. And to catch up 7 points in a single heat is surely bonkers. The old TS rule seems to me much more defendable.

[Subedei]

Funny that. On Friday at Brandon, I was thinking about the Golden Sash competition that used to be run during the second half at Coventry. It was always a chance for the top boys to gain some revenge for defeats during the main meeting and ensured that the crowd stayed until the end of the meeting. The good old days eh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interestingly (well, not really, actually), I was reading an old Speedway Star the other day and young Colin Pratt was complaining that an opposition team's top riders declined to appear in the Golden Sash, leaving just his Cradley Heath riders to ride against each other. That's the problem. It starts with the best intentions, but the top guys eventually tire of it and start to extract the urine.

[barrow boy]

Interestingly (well, not really, actually), I was reading an old Speedway Star the other day and young Colin Pratt was complaining that an opposition team's top riders declined to appear in the Golden Sash, leaving just his Cradley Heath riders to ride against each other. That's the problem. It starts with the best intentions, but the top guys eventually tire of it and start to extract the urine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about starting the meeting with something like the old second half rider of the night series of races involving 3 heats and a final consisting of the 3 winners and the fastest second. This would also serve as a pre match practice and then we might have some closer matches

[Subedei]

That's not such a bad idea. In fact, it's a very good idea.

Then you could reasonably bill the actually league (or whatever) racing as the "Main Event". Sound thinking, young fellow.

[up4it]

What would happen if a rider or riders were injured in a pre-match event ?

[bigcatdiary]

The whole tactical ride thing should be scrapped, along with the guest rider rule.

 

Dreadful, both of them, holds this sport back from being taken seriously.

 

Unfortunately its the BSPA who decided these things and they dont want to scrap either.

[sllimnitram]

get rid of it, i hate it. bring back the old tac sub when 6 points down. then once your at 45 point u no you've won.

 

could have an 8 man team with normal 7 riders racing but if rider is under performing you can bring in the 8th rider to replace him. could keep meetings closer and more competative racing.

 

just a random spur of the moment thought!

Edited August 24, 2007 by sllimnitram

[Matousek]

8 man teams , 18 heats, tac sub when 6 behind, no gold rides. Id prefer this though doubt it will happen!

[T.N.T.]

No Double Points

 

Opponent starts of 15 metres twice

 

Twice a team manager can nominate an opponent to start of 15 metres when his team are 8 or more behind. (each occasion must be different riders)

 

end score will be 48-42, 51-39, 46-44 not 51-43 etc

 

More passing also

[k3v1n83]

get rid of it, i hate it. bring back the old tac sub when 6 points down. then once your at 45 point u no you've won.

 

could have an 8 man team with normal 7 riders racing but if rider is under performing you can bring in the 8th rider to replace him. could keep meetings closer and more competative racing.

 

just a random spur of the moment thought!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I with you, i like the 8th rider idea but not to sure how you could implement it would it be a 3 point rider or a points limit for 8 riders?

 

8 man teams , 18 heats, tac sub when 6 behind, no gold rides. Id prefer this though doubt it will happen!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I liked it when we had 18 heats but I think of the extra points scored hence pay to the riders i think kills this idea, maybe we could have it in the KO cup? its not the first time we've had different rules for it.

Edited September 23, 2007 by k3v1n83

[matty1071]

we seriously have to scrap the it's a knockout tactical joke it makes us look foolish other sports will look at speedway and they will see the black and white helmet colour demonstrating that one team despite losing heavily on the night and all in all being second best deserve double points now that just sounds silly doesn't it?

Edited October 18, 2007 by matty1071

[crossscorpion]

I think Bob C has it right over tactical ride/substitutions. If you have a full team, not just two top ones, you do not need to use this silly system.

If all your riders are capable of scoring points, you do not get far enough behind to need to use this silly system.

Scunthorpe Scorpions have used it only twice, to my knowledge, this season. Both times due to having riders absent.

If one team have got so far ahead of the other team, it is that all that teams riders are taking points.

Too many teams pick a good number one and two but fail to realise, matches are won by teams who are capable in positions 3 4 5 6 and 7

Perhaps the method of rating/grading a rider needs a change.

But in my opinion, Scunthorpe have won over the last two years due to not only good top placed riders, but excellent reserves. Funny that our team can still hold its own, even after some due to increased points average/grading are moved up and others down to reserve.

A lesson for any team wanting to win at this sport.

Pick a good all round team. Not just import riders from a higher league and hope the rest can score.

[Old Man of Brough]

i think the rule should be kept because it can work in favour for both teams. It makes the meetings closer.

This rule was supposedly brought in to protect the rider at number 2 in a team because the tactical substitue was nearly always used in heat 8, but the real reason the promoters brought this rule in was to save money. When this magic double points rule was brought in teams were allowed to change riders riding at number 2, 3 and 4. The tactical rule does not make a meeting closer when compared to the old tactical substitue.

Double points rule gains a maximum of 3 pts

Heat 8 tactical substitute ( should be a 4 - 2 to the home side) Home No 2 beating away No 2 and home No 7 beating away No 7, Away team uses a Tac sub (away teams No 1 or best rider on the night) and turns this heat into a 4 - 2 for the away side (home side - 2 away side + 2), a difference of 4 points.

Big problem with this the away teams No 1 has to be paid for scoring an extra 3 points.

[Trevor]

Double points has always been a silly idea, in sport, points, goals, runs have to be earned. To double them just to manipulate the scores, makes the sport look Mickey Mouse at best.

 

How about this idea to help create closer meetings? When a team is eight points behind allow them choice of gate positions, until they are back within eight points, then reverse back to the programmed gate positions. We often see a certain gate having the majority of heat winners, so giving that gate to the team behind would give them the advantage, but they would still have to earn their points on the track fair and square. This idea would avoid the sport looking so 'It's a Knockout' to the viewing public.

Edited April 10, 2008 by Trevor

[barrow boy]

Double points has always been a silly idea, in sport, points, goals, runs have to be earned. To double them just to manipulate the scores, makes the sport look Mickey Mouse at best.

 

How about this idea to help create closer meetings? When a team is eight points behind allow them choice of gate positions, until they are back within eight points, then reverse back to the programmed gate positions. We often see a certain gate having the majority of heat winners, so giving that gate to the team behind would give them the advantage, but they would still have to earn their points on the track fair and square. This idea would avoid the sport looking so 'It's a Knockout' to the viewing public.

100% what I think also. In fact I have advocated all this previously. Well done. That's 2 of us . Any others would like to give it a try.

[WimbledonDon]

Double points has always been a silly idea, in sport, points, goals, runs have to be earned. To double them just to manipulate the scores, makes the sport look Mickey Mouse at best.

 

How about this idea to help create closer meetings? When a team is eight points behind allow them choice of gate positions, until they are back within eight points, then reverse back to the programmed gate positions. We often see a certain gate having the majority of heat winners, so giving that gate to the team behind would give them the advantage, but they would still have to earn their points on the track fair and square. This idea would avoid the sport looking so 'It's a Knockout' to the viewing public.

 

That is actually one of the best ideas i've ever heard!!!

 

i think the bspa should take that into account!!!

 

[barrow boy]

That is actually one of the best ideas i've ever heard!!!

 

i think the bspa should take that into account!!!

That's 3 of us now that thinks it's the way to go Any more?