SCB Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Right then. Can the moany <beep>s name me 7 riders who are better than him that did NOt finish in the top 8 of the GP series? IF they can name me 7 rider who ARE better than him (other than the top 8 GP riders), then we might be able to continue with the "Lee Richardson does not deserve a Gp place" bitching. This should be intresting as I don't think there are 7 riders who are better than him but, I'll give people a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy smith Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Well said SCB as i have stated before Lee Richardson is still one of the world's top 15 riders so should be in the GP series. I wish his knockers would give it a rest as they would be the first to bitch if we did not have a Brit in the GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Of course the bloke deserves his place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy moore Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Zagar Janusz k Simon Stead Holta Loram Peter Karlsson Protasiewitz and they are not even in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buxton-babe Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 HOLTA!!! all the way! if Hans doesnt get a place next year then whoever is picking them should be sacked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Right then. Can the moany <beep>s name me 7 riders who are better than him that did NOt finish in the top 8 of the GP series? IF they can name me 7 rider who ARE better than him (other than the top 8 GP riders), then we might be able to continue with the "Lee Richardson does not deserve a Gp place" bitching. Name me 16 riders in the world that were better than Bobby Schwartz in his prime and then explain to me why he never featured in a world final. What's that? He didn't qualify? Okay. Neither did Richardson, nor Nicholls. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy smith Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 (edited) Name me 16 riders in the world that were better than Bobby Schwartz in his prime and then explain to me why he never featured in a world final. What's that? He didn't qualify? Okay. Neither did Richardson, nor Nicholls. End of story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He was good but the powers then kept i think 4 places open to Eastern Block riders who at the time were never in top16 of the world. So if he rode under this modern system he would probably be included just as Lee is. No system is perfect but Lee has rightly been included. My World top 25 at the end of 2005 season (injuries ignored) 1 Trick 2 Crump 3 Nikki 4 Adams 5 Jonsson 6 Hampel 7 Hancock 8 Gollob 9 Nicholls 10 Bjarne 11 Holta 12 Richardson 13 Peter Karlsson 14 Andersen 15 Sullivan 16 Zagar 17 Max 18 Lindback 19 Hamill 20 Protsiewicz 21 Bjerre 22 Loram 23 Kolodziej 24 Kasprzak 25 Lukas Dryml Edited September 25, 2005 by jimmy smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liesdale Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Zagar Janusz k Simon Stead Holta Loram Peter Karlsson Protasiewitz and they are not even in it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you really think Zagar, Kolodziej, Stead are BETTER than Richardson? You really don't have a clue do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy moore Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Entitled to my opinion Liesdale like everyone else,if he had to qualify would he get back in i reckon he would find it hard,no wonder people say he aint good enough to be in it etc when the gps are a closed shop riders like those ive mentioned should be given a chance,put it this way between Lee and Matej if he is in it -who will finish above who i reckon Zagar so he must be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 lee came last but one this year and had 1 good gp out of 9. he will admit its not his setup or bikes but what is in his head. yes he should have a 4th go at it but if he is not top eight next year then his place should go to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 (edited) Line-ups edit: sorry, wrong topic. Edited September 25, 2005 by tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 He was good but the powers then kept i think 4 places open to Eastern Block riders who at the time were never in top16 of the world. So if he rode under this modern system he would probably be included just as Lee is. Think you'll find it was 5 places. And it wasn't just the Eastern bloc. It was continental Europe, except for Sweden and Denmark. And thos 5 riders had to qualify. Anyway, if we're going on whether there are 7 riders better than Lee Richardson as a reason for inclusion, why the hell bother with a world championship at all? Why not just decide at the end of the season who the best rider in the world is and declare him world champion. Yes, that's the level of this debate. Lee Richardson deserves to be in because there's not 7 riders outside the pre-qualified top 8 that are better than him. Well, in that case, I say that Michael Lee was world champion in 1983 because he was the best rider in the world. Richardson and Nicholls have failed and failed. They should be out. The sole reason they're in is because they're British. They ought to be embarrassed and ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liesdale Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Entitled to my opinion Liesdale like everyone else,if he had to qualify would he get back in i reckon he would find it hard,no wonder people say he aint good enough to be in it etc when the gps are a closed shop riders like those ive mentioned should be given a chance,put it this way between Lee and Matej if he is in it -who will finish above who i reckon Zagar so he must be better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Andy You've been watching far too much PL speedway the past few years - I don't think you realise how good and fast the EL guys really are. I'm one of those that thinks Zagar will struggle in the EL next season (and there are many others). His gating is poor in the PL, so how that will translate to EL racing is anyone's guess. He won't get the chance to blast around the outside of the EL and GP guys like he does at Smallmead each and every Monday. No doubting that Zagar is an imense talent, but until his gating improves he'll be an GP also ran. Lee Richardson is one of the fastest starters in the world - and whether that makes him a 'gating tart' as some like to describe it, he will always return a big average and will be well placed in the GP standings with that weapon in his armoury. He would have finished higher in the GP standings if he hadn't had all those problems at the start of the season, e.g. tuner falling ill etc. I still fancy Lee to win a GP before Scott Nicholls does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn1972 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Just looking at the Elite League averages in the speedway star. lee comes in 12th at the moment, although that includes TRick so realistically, 11th. Scott, as a point of interest, is 6th (Or 5th if you remove TRick) Now, of the 11 riders above Lee, only 2 (Karlsson and Max) are not in the GP. Max is now ruled out for entry to next season anyway, and karlsson I would think will get the nod. Of the PL boys the ONLY likely entry is Zagar, who I think everyone acknowledges has a bright future. Yes he will face a dip in form on entry to the EL I suspect (Not least because it's likely that he won't go in at reserve but in the more difficult 2 or 4 position - my personal feeling is that more than likely when the first set of gree sheets come out he WILL drop to reserve and that is when we will start to see his true form) Staying with the top 20 Speedway Star EL averages below Lee we have Ryan Sullivan who WAS in the GP, but once again will be out for next season I would think. I think to include Stead at this stage would be lunacy, although he will, I would hope, be the Wild card for cardiff 2006 (Or will it go to Harris? It's got to be one or the other, surely?) but at this stage there are many riders who would come above Steady in the pecking order for a place, Kasprzak, Bjerre and Gjedde, to name three. I think that giving Lee a place again is fair at this stage. There really aren't that many riders who could be considered ahead of him, and wghile he needs to work more on his consistency at this level - and perhaps to an extent his mental preparation aas well - He has shown better results from the GP's over the past couople of years than Scott.I don't see either of them as World champion material I'm afraid, but I do think that Lee copes better with high-pressure situations, and that could eventually be where he gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 But are you not doing what you are accusing others on the Polish thread of doing i.e placing the British league above the others.Your saying the position of a rider in the world order can be based on his Elite average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn1972 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 (edited) But are you not doing what you are accusing others on the Polish thread of doing i.e placing the British league above the others.Your saying the position of a rider in the world order can be based on his Elite average? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, not at all, I have virtually zero knowledge of the averages in the Swedish, Damish or Polish leagues though, so I am using the only tool I have to hand! I had intended to add a paragraph to my post saying as much, and that I understtod that there may be riders in other leagues with better form than Lee, but I still feel he should be included.....sadly I forgot to type it though! *edit* to be fair, at no stage in my post do I suggest that GP entry should be based on elite averages either - I simply mention the Speedway Star averages as most of the riders I refer to feature not only in the GP's, but in that list as well. Edited September 25, 2005 by Robyn1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy smith Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Anyway, if we're going on whether there are 7 riders better than Lee Richardson as a reason for inclusion, why the hell bother with a world championship at all? Why not just decide at the end of the season who the best rider in the world is and declare him world champion. Yes, that's the level of this debate. Lee Richardson deserves to be in because there's not 7 riders outside the pre-qualified top 8 that are better than him. Well, in that case, I say that Michael Lee was world champion in 1983 because he was the best rider in the world.Richardson and Nicholls have failed and failed. They should be out. The sole reason they're in is because they're British. They ought to be embarrassed and ashamed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So are there 7 better riders? No is the simple answer and that means unlike the Bobby Schwartz days wich you are harping on about there is an outside chance the best 16 riders on merit will be competing in the 2006 GP. Like it or not that is the system. They may have failed to make the top 8 but certainly have nothing to be embarrassed about as they are both top riders which unfortunately will always be knocked by certain for being British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jill Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 They may have failed to make the top 8 but certainly have nothing to be embarrassed about as they are both top riders which unfortunately will always be knocked by certain for being British. how true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 They may have failed to make the top 8 but certainly have nothing to be embarrassed about as they are both top riders which unfortunately will always be knocked by certain for being British. If they were "top" riders, they'd be in the top 8 and have qualified. They aren't and they didn't. They've failed and failed again. How many more chances for them to fail do you want them to have? Neither will be in the top 8 next season and you'll still want them there. And why? Because they're British. That's the only reason they'll be there next season. They certainly don't deserve to be there on merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZKZ Kitten Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 stop it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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