2006 - Rules ?

[Kevin Meynell]

MON = ENGLAND

THU = ENGLAND

 

This wouldn't really help because riders might have to travel to Britain twice in a week. The two race days need to be adjacent to each other, which really only leaves Wednesday and Thursday.

 

I think that all the current BEL tracks either have Wednesday or Thursday available as a potential race night.

[T.N.T.]

Denmark ride on Wednesdays so it couldnt be Wednesday and Thursday while the weekend has too many FIM meetings so it would have to be Monday and Thursday.

Edited September 17, 2005 by TNT133

[T.N.T.]

On the latter point, the current race format artificially inflates the averages of reserves and second strings and deflates the averages of top riders.  If we used the old system, the Crumps, Nicholls, Adams and Pedersens of the league might well be on 11+ averages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or switcth to my previous suggestion when Crump would have 2 programmed rides at Swindon. First against Richardson and second against Adams. Depending where he is nominated in his other two, he could meet the same riders again or even Adams three times !

 

Wont get an 11+ average on this format !

[AndyM]

No, my point is that by creating more meetings between no 1s, their average is artificially reduced. Fine, the fans want them to meet 3 times in a meeting, but the results underestimate the rider's ability. In 13 and 15, there always has to be at least one loser!

[Kevin Meynell]

Denmark ride on Wednesdays so it couldnt be Wednesday and Thursday while the weekend has too many FIM meetings so it would have to be Monday and Thursday.

 

The Danish League only has 10 rounds, so they don't ride every week. In any case, you can't accommodate every league (why not the Czech and German leagues as well), and as only a few BEL riders also ride in the Danish League, I think they'll just have to choose.

[Kevin Meynell]

Fine, the fans want them to meet 3 times in a meeting, but the results underestimate the rider's ability.

 

John Berry always claimed that it was better when the top riders in each team didn't meet so often. The theory was that it was easier to create superstars that way because they only had one (or at most two) race(s) in which to beat their opponent.

[T.N.T.]

The Danish League only has 10 rounds, so they don't ride every week. In any case, you can't accommodate every league (why not the Czech and German leagues as well), and as only a few BEL riders also ride in the Danish League, I think they'll just have to choose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1 4/5 19.00 Holsted - Outrup 53 - 44 Holsted

2 11/5 19.00 Slangerup - Outrup 48 - 46 Slangerup

3 11/5 19.00 Fredericia - Brovst 54 - 43 Fjelsted

4 18/5 19.00 Brovst - Fredericia 48 - 47 Brovst

5 18/5 19.00 Holsted - Slangerup 50 - 46 Holsted

6 25/5 19.00 Outrup - Fredericia 44 - 46 Outrup

7 1/6 19.00 Holsted - Brovst 56 - 41 Holsted

8 8/6 19.00 Fredericia - Slangerup 48 - 44 Fjelsted

9 8/6 19.00 Brovst - Outrup 57 - 41 Brovst

10 15/6 19.00 Slangerup - Fredericia 45 - 46 Slangerup

11 15/6 19.00 Outrup - Holsted 42 - 50 Outrup

12 22/6 19.00 Fredericia - Outrup 67 - 25 Fjelsted

 

13 22/6 19.00 Brovst - Slangerup 37 - 61 Brovst

14 26/6 14.00 Slangerup - Holsted 45 - 50 Slangerup

15 3/8 19.00 Outrup - Brovst 48 - 47 Outrup

16 10/8 19.00 Slangerup - Brovst 58 - 41 Slangerup

17 10/8 19.00 Fredericia - Holsted 46 - 44 Fjelsted

18 17/8 19.00 Brovst - Holsted 51 - 48 Brovst

19 17/8 19.00 Outrup - Slangerup 50 - 49 Outrup

20 24/8 19.00 Holsted - Fredericia 48 - 41 Holsted

21 31/8 18.30 Fredericia - Slangerup - Brovst - Holsted 40p - 28p - 21p - 19p Fjelsted

22 24/9 14.00 Fredericia - Holsted - Slangerup - Brovst Holsted

 

More than 10 weeks this season isnt it and that doesnt include Danish Championships.

 

As for let them choose, look at the list you are asking

 

Nicki Pedersen, Hans Andersen, Bjarne Pedersen, Charlie Gjedde, Neils K Iversen, Kenneth Bjerre, Jesper B Jensen, Morten Risager, Mads Korneiulssen, Tom P Madsen, Claus Kristensen, Kristian Lund, Steen Jensen.

plus - Robert Koseicha, Roman Povazhny, Karol Zabik, Marcin Rempala.

 

As for Germany, Italy and other minnow countries, the list is alot smaller and riders like Steve Johnston, Roman Povazhny etc will take just a few seconds to decide.

 

The one rule that needs to come in is the Points Limit in the PL be reduced to something like 38 or 40 which would enhance the oppourtunites for young British riders to fill the reserve berths.

 

In fact, the reserves births in the PL should be kept to British riders under the age of 23, with averages not effected unless a team tracks three and the lowest two must be at 6+7.

[Kevin Meynell]

More than 10 weeks this season isnt it and that doesnt include Danish Championships.

 

Yes, but there's only 5 teams in the DSL so there shouldn't be more than 10 rounds (with each team having two off weeks). Furthermore, according to the fixture list, some matches seem to be held on a Sunday.

 

As for let them choose, look at the list you are asking

 

The foreign-based Danish riders don't ride in every DSL match as it is. The British, Polish and Swedish leagues are of roughly equal standards, but the Danish league is not really of the same importance, even though it does rank fourth.

[cinderfella]

As to the involvement of the televison company; the fact that they invest a fair amount of cash in speedway does, quite definitely, give them the right to a good measure of involvement.  I personally wish this was not the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As a former employee I was aware that Sky were behind the change to helmet colours.

 

Their intention was (and could still be) to have all riders wearing helmet cams and using the four coloured interactive buttons on the remote control the viewer could select which of the fours riders they 'viewed' from!

Edited September 22, 2005 by cinderfella

[The Third Man]

As a former employee I was aware that Sky were behind the change to helmet colours.

 

Their intention was (and could still be) to have all riders wearing helmet cams and using the  four coloured interactive buttons on the remote control the viewer could select which of the fours riders they 'viewed' from!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[The Third Man]

Why do we need to worry about what race nights they have in other countries, if riders cant ride all over the place they make a choice. i dont see many polish or swedish teams paying for air fares from australia, they will just get on without them.

as for rules i started watching speedway when it was quite simple, guest riders for no 1 rider only r/r for heat leadeers only. if a heat leader was injured from both teams then they cancelled guests / rr and ran with real 7 men teams.

this meant tthat riders from the lower leagues gained experience in a higher league and we saw 7 man teams most of the time instead of 6 man teams most of the time, and no guests for reseves, who was the idiot who dreamed that one up.

back to real tac subs and real scores we can all understand on teletext

 

as for practice before the meeting it was always said that this would ruin the track preparation before the match got underway, and i must agree with this point.

i see no problem with the current 15 heat format

 

in other words back to four men in a race, seven men teams with riders who belong to that club and no stupid jokers and please no 0-0 2-1 or 3-0 scoirelines in the future

[Diesel]

as for practice before the meeting it was always said that this would ruin the track preparation before the match got underway, and i must agree with this point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally think that a load of rubbish. How often do we hear "the track will be fine after a couple of heats"?

 

Chuck a couple of riders out (even juniors) before meeting for a few laps and the track will settle in nicely ready for the action!

[Vince]

Practice would only be equivelant to 4 extra races which I think would be a small price to pay for riders having a good set up from the start.

[enotian]

Could never see why teams aren't allowed to practice on track pre meeting.

 

As stated previously riders seem to always talk about the track getting better after a few heats and it must give the away team a better chance to get to grips with an unfamiliar track rather than working it out during their first couple of rides by which time a meeting could already have been lost.

 

All other sports, including motor sports in particular, seem to allow both teams/individuals sufficient practice as clearly improves the entertainment if all the participants are fully prepared.

 

However, Premier League promoters in particular seem desperate for home wins so anything offering the away team a greater chance of success would surely be frowned upon.

 

How about to kerb home track advantage team strengths are decided on a riders home average? Increase the points limit to 50 but based on home averages only.

 

This would hopefully have the long term effect of forcing promoters to abandon producing tracks to heavily favour the home team, which is encouraged by the aggregate bonus point, as it would result in them having to track a lower overall strength team.

 

It might also inspire a growing number of riders who appear to rely on their high home scores to put more emphasis on how they perform away from home.

 

Hopefully the end result would be closer more exciting matches throughout the league?

[Vince]

Interesting bit from an interview on the Speadwayplus site:

 

So why is Speedway so successful and well attended in Poland? Easy, they keep it simple. All matches are run on a Sunday afternoon, the teams are allowed one foreign rider amongst their side, have two riders under the age of 21 at reserve and most importantly consistently stick by these rules.

 

At the meeting I attended the riders were introduced individually in order of the team line up and allowed three practice laps. Both teams opposite numbered riders took to the track at the same time, fully kitted up, and evaluated the racing surface. This provided the fans with a proper opportunity to assess the opposition riders and was more importantly a subtle and interesting introduction into the match. It also allowed the opposing team to gauge what set up they needed in order to be competitive from the start of the meeting.

[SCB]

Interesting bit from an interview on the Speadwayplus site:

 

So why is Speedway so successful and well attended in Poland? ....most importantly consistently stick by these rules.

Flippen heck, that is intresting! Never going to happen though, unles they bring in a rule that says any rule can be over turned on the toss of a coin!

 

British Speedways achillies heel is that the rules are ignored so often, people moan about it but when it happens they stick up for it!

[Dr Cyclops]

i have watched many meetings in poland and it is far better than england. the problem with english speedway is the people that run.

[TonyM]

WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN 2006

 

NEW FORMAT

 

Name the riders according to their averages and list them in the programme in order. Should a rider be replaced, the new rider takes up the number according to his average in the team.

 

Wolves v Ipswich 2005 as example

 

Mikael Max 1 Piotr Protasiewicz

David Howe 2 Hans Andersen

Steve Johnston 3 Chris Louis

Fredrik Lindgren 4 Kim Jansson

Ronnie Correy 5 Karol Baran

Krzysztof Pecyna 6 Robert Miskowiak

Magnus Karlsson 7 Daniel King

 

Riders in Red and Green are programmed rides while the team manager must give each of his team a nominated ride (Blue and Yellow) in each half.

 

Heat 15 is the usual nominated ride.

 

HT01; Howe ? Protasiewicz ?

HT02; Karlsson ? King ?

HT03; Max ? Andersen ?

HT04; Correy ? Miskowiak ?

HT05; Lindgren ? Louis ?

HT06; Pecyna ? Baran ?

HT07; Johnston ? Jansson ?

 

HT08; Karlsson ? King ?

HT09; Correy ? Baran ?

HT10; Johnston ? Louis ?

HT11; Pecyna ? Miskowiak ?

HT12; Howe ? Andersen ?

HT13; Max ? Protasiewicz ?

HT14; Lindgren ? Jansson ?

 

HT15;

 

TACTICAL BENEFITS

 

This will bring out the best in tactical moves by a team manager. Does he put a heat leader in with his number 7 or does he put out his number 5 ?

 

Does he leave his number one till heat 14 to give him the last three heats, thus ensuring a strong finish and possibly a tactical ride in 13 or 14.

 

Does he give the available inside gates to the lower numbers and leave the top riders with an outside gate, or vica-versa ?

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I like the principal, perhaps a variation could be moving to six man teams (may this be a better way of reducing costs for PL) with all riders having a scheduled 5 rides. First 'half' would be a pairs style event with 3 pairs riding against each of the opposition pairs. Second 'half' would follow your idea above with six heats with each rider matched against his opposite number, who partners each rider is left to the team management. This would give a natural break in proceedings after heat 9 and rules could be brought in for the side in the lead (normally the home team) to submit their riding order for the remaining races to both the referee and opposition within (say) 10mins of the end of heat 9, the losing (away) team would then have a further (say) 5 mins to submit their riding order

 

Variations could be brought in to allow for who could be nominated ie if a team is 10 points down then they can select any 2 riders to have 2 nominated rides or similar such ideas

 

This would also satisty AndyM's valid point that averages are skewed by riding position and not riding ability with all riders riding against every one of the opposition team at least once and the second half being a random(ish) selection depending on different teams tactics (would you choose to have a heat 13 style match up or would you have your 'top' riders protecting the reserves?)

[Kevin Meynell]

I like the principal, perhaps a variation could be moving to six man teams

 

I'm not a great fan of scheduling heats according to rider averages, because it takes away the tactical possibilities of pairing certain riders together. It also doesn't take into account the fact that some riders ride better together than others, although team riding is of course largely non-existent these days anyway.

 

I do agree though, that the current heat format is not fantastic, and rather skews averages. The old 13-heat format was actually fairly balanced (although quirky), but it's actually pretty difficult to extend this into a 15 or 16-heat match.

 

I'd therefore be in favour of trying 6-rider teams again. I did devise a 6-rider, 14/15/16-heat format for the Speedway Meeting program where Nos. 1 to 4 ride against each other twice, and against the reserves once. Conversely, the reserves (Nos 5 & 6) ride against each other twice, and against the Nos. 1 to 4 once. As riders in each category (heat-leaders/second-strings and reserves) would ride against each other the same number of times, team managers would be free to nominate their riders where they choose (subject to the reserves having to ride at Nos 5 & 6).

 

For example...

 

1: 1 & 2 v 1 & 2

2: 3 & 4 v 3 & 4

3: 5 & 6 v 5 & 6 (Reserves Race)

4: 1 & 2 v 3 & 4

5: 3 & 4 v 1 & 2

6: 1 & 5 v 3 & 6

7: 2 & 4 v 1 & 5

8: 3 & 6 v 2 & 4

9: 2 & 4 v 3 & 6

10: 1 & 5 v 2 & 4

11: 3 & 6 v 1 & 5

12: 2 & 4 v 2 & 4

13: 3 & 6 v 3 & 6

14: 1 & 5 v 1 & 5

----------------------

15: Nominated

----------------------

15: Lowest scorers

16: Highest scorers

 

As

 

Then for the second-half (if the 14-heat option was chosen), the heats would be determined by average...

 

15: 4 juniors (Juniors Race)

16: Home No.1, Home No.4, Away No.5, Junior 1

17: Home No.5, Junior 2, Away No.1, Away No.4

18: Home No.2, Home No.3 v Away No.6, Junior 3

19: Home No.6, Junior 4 v Away No.2, Away No.3

20: Winners Heats 16-18 (Final)

Edited November 8, 2005 by Kevin Meynell

[TonyM]

I'm not a great fan of scheduling heats according to rider averages, because it takes away the tactical possibilities of pairing certain riders together. It also doesn't take into account the fact that some riders ride better together than others, although team riding is of course largely non-existent these days anyway.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Totally agree that team riding is something of a lost art - no reason that the 'pairs' in my example HAD to be 1+2, 3+4 and 5+6 - essentially they are just a way of getting a 2x2 race (real speedway), so if for example a team wanted their no 1 to ride with their no 4 this would be no problem as they each race against the opposition PAIRS

 

I like your 14 heat format but it does leave reserves with only 4 rides, depends on your view of team building - I prefer 6 riders but there is certainly an arguement for 4 + 2 'reserves', although IMO this is sometimes abused with sides looking for a false average reserve to have seven rides in a meeting. I would prefer to see any lower average rider able to replace a higher average rider throughout the team with a limit of (say) twice per team per meeting (in my format this would be in the nominated element, giving extra flexibility to team managers).

 

I have never been a big fan of the final nominated race - loads of hanging around for the obvious suspects to be announced and would be easier to schedule a 'decent' heat at 14 or 15 instead