Will We Ever Have A British World Champ Again

[AndyM]

Under 15s is fine. But as I pointed out, the crisis won't wait that long - it's quite possible we might have no rider in GPs for 5 years!

[JC!]

Entirely agree.  We've never had anyone to dominate the sport like a Rickardsson, Mauger, Fundin,  Briggs, Gundersen or Nielsen.  Quite amazing, really - our top riders have been unlucky with injury, proved to be flaky or are not sufficiently committed to repeat or expand on any triumphs.  This is one reason why I suggested that a sports psychologist might help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Spot on. I do wonder what would have happened if that drain had been covered up in '77, and PC had won two in a row? Maybe the 80s slump could have been, at least partially, avoided?

Edited July 7, 2005 by JC!

[Wildcat Steve]

Under 15s is fine.  But as I pointed out, the crisis won't wait that long - it's quite possible we might have no rider in GPs for 5 years!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agree with you there and the alarm bells should have sounded long before.

Had the conversation with George about this saying that if he makes it to EL will have a lot of expectations to do well.

He said no more than he would put on himself.

But what i would not want to see is these lads pushed to quickly. Just hope they get the chances in the PL and EL instead of an overseas rider "quick fix"

Also at the other end of the scale not many around on the 125s as a few years ago we need to do something to encourage the youngsters to have ago without a lot of expence a day for them to "Try out" some thing like that

[Splatty]

ok so what would be everyone's 5/10 point plan to turn things around?

 

mine would be something like this (and probably very illegal ):

 

1) overseas riders would come in on an 8+ average (until it was contested in the european courts) in PL and would not be allowed to move from 1,3 or 5

 

2) 2/3 years later the same would happen in the EL (although the transition to this would need to be well worked out and as gentle as possible)

 

2) contracts for overseas riders would be 'owned' by the BSPA and money earned would be ploughed into U15's and those on the U21 and GP trail

 

3) travelling expenses would be brought more in line to reality to encourage riders to more distant locations

 

4) The CL which would instantly grow because of the changes (no money in overseas flights anymore so the money goes into bringing through prospects) would be split into Northern and Southern leagues

 

5) until point 2 is implemented clubs need to be given incentives to take the leap with a young brit in the EL - scrap the 2.5% reduction...don't even think about 10%.....

 

- instead go for either a 2.00 point average for reserves and/or a 20% reduction for Brits - they are the commodity we would like to become the focus and there is no better way of doing it - i'm sure attitudes would change very quickly

 

 

edit: oh yeah and absolutely zero tolerance in the CL - commonwealth included

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

shoot me down

Edited July 7, 2005 by Splatty

[Splatty]

Under 15s is fine.  But as I pointed out, the crisis won't wait that long - it's quite possible we might have no rider in GPs for 5 years!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

which is why riders like Chris Harris, Simon Stead, Ed Kennett, James Wright, Dumps and Neathy need to be given ultimate support NOW - that could involve pairing them off with past legends, financial support, someone appointed to find sponsorship etc etc but I see no reason why these guys can't make it (and possibly others at similar levels)

[neil_L]

we're back to same old ban the foreigner argument and all will be great in British speedway ... crap. Fact, losing teams in speedway attract only diehards like all us who read this forum. The result is that crowds drop, income drops and poor old promoter wants out.

 

In an idle situation we would love to see far more home grown talent packing British teams thus saving travel and accommodation expense etc. It wont happen because a massive proportion of those attending speedway meetings want to see a winning team.

 

Look at AE, quite a few established British riders. Poor run of results = very poor crowds = cash injection to keep afloat.

 

Those who say ban foreigners perhaps pay double at the turnstiles.

 

back to the question. I reckon Scottie can do it. I have no doubt he's a massive talent but seems to struggle with mechanical setup. Sad though that for the yrs I followed the sport since '87 everyone in the speedway press would say it would be a massive boost for British Speedway to have a World Champion. didn't make any difference to the sport at all when havelock and Loram were world champs.

[Wildcat Steve]

we're back to same old ban the foreigner argument and all will be great in British speedway ... crap. Fact, losing teams in speedway attract only diehards like all us who read this forum. The result is that crowds drop, income drops and poor old promoter wants out.

 

In an idle situation we would love to see far more home grown talent packing British teams thus saving travel and accommodation expense etc. It wont happen because a massive proportion of those attending speedway meetings want to see a winning team.

 

Look at AE, quite a few established British riders. Poor run of results = very poor crowds = cash injection to keep afloat.

 

Those who say ban foreigners perhaps pay double at the turnstiles.

 

back to the question. I reckon Scottie can do it. I have no doubt he's a massive talent but seems to struggle with mechanical setup. Sad though that for the yrs I

followed the sport since '87 everyone in the speedway press would say it would be a massive boost for British Speedway to have a World Champion. didn't make any difference to the sport at all when havelock and Loram were world champs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have never said ban overseas riders I have enjoyed many a meeting with overseas riders. teams should be made up of riders there on merit be it British or not.

I dont have a problem with teams made up of overseas riders.

My gripe is that poor overseas riders get good deals extended runs and junior overseas riders when the same are not afforded our own.

I will never forget the reception Mark Loram got at Poole when he returned with the World Championship Trophy. The stadium packed to rafters. It is something else when you have a British World Champ.

I would love to see Scotty do it he still has a chance if he can just rasie his game that little more same with Lee if he could find the consistant form. He shows flashes of the rider he can be

Edited July 7, 2005 by Wildcat Steve

[neil_L]

sorry I should add that the night loram won the world crown was a truely magical moment for all British Speedway fans. Now here was a a true racer but it was so sad that the national press didn't give him the full deserved credit. we all love him though

[Subedei]

I will never forget the reception Mark Loram got at Poole when he returned with the World Championship Trophy.

 

But how much of that was down to the guy himself? Everyone loves Mark Loram, and why not? He's a great racer, seems like a great guy and everyone wanted him to win. But what about a Lee Richardson title (unlikely, I know)? To many he wouldn't have deserved it. The truth of the matter is that we don't really mind who's champ as long as he's one of our favourites. We'd like a British champ, but TR, Crump or whoever are fine as long as the individual likes them.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Subedei

[Cornishman]

bomber

[Matousek]

lee richardsson wont win title, to inconsistant, scott nicholls has best chance, not this year though coz its tricks, and i want tony to win it, for being great over years

[AndyM]

which is why riders like Chris Harris, Simon Stead, Ed Kennett, James Wright, Dumps and Neathy need to be given ultimate support NOW - that could involve pairing them off with past legends, financial support, someone appointed to find sponsorship etc etc but I see no reason why these guys can't make it (and possibly others at similar levels)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, absolutely Splatty. Been saying so for months, support them, and create the sort of policy context that allows them to flourish. But it'll still be a long hard slog - quick fixes after years of neglect don't produce instant results. Look at the railways!

[Custom House Kid]

James Wright

[spedy]

Several posters have suggested that foreign riders should be reduced/or sadled with high averages. But Why? Foreign riders are better than british ones(sad but true ). If you look at the young poles, swedes, aussis etc, etc. They are more advanced than the british riders of a similar age. Why i dont know, but its an issue that needs addressing. It would however be unfair for promising young foreign talent to miss out because teams are being forced into riding dodgy british youngsters, in the faint hope that they will one day be a world champion

Edited July 7, 2005 by spedy

[AndyM]

ok so what would be everyone's 5/10 point plan to turn things around?

 

mine would be something like this (and probably very illegal ):

 

1) overseas riders would come in on an 8+ average (until it was contested in the european courts) in PL and would not be allowed to move from 1,3 or 5

 

2) 2/3 years later the same would happen in the EL (although the transition to this would need to be well worked out and as gentle as possible)

 

2) contracts for overseas riders would be 'owned' by the BSPA and money earned would be ploughed into U15's and those on the U21 and GP trail

 

3) travelling expenses would be brought more in line to reality to encourage riders to more distant locations

 

4) The CL which would instantly grow because of the changes (no money in overseas flights anymore so the money goes into bringing through prospects) would be split into Northern and Southern leagues

 

5) until point 2 is implemented clubs need to be given incentives to take the leap with a young brit in the EL  - scrap the 2.5% reduction...don't even think about 10%.....

 

- instead go for either a 2.00 point average for reserves and/or a 20% reduction for Brits - they are the commodity we would like to become the focus and there is no better way of doing it - i'm sure attitudes would change very quickly

edit: oh yeah and absolutely zero tolerance in the CL - commonwealth included

shoot me down

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All those points and more should be debated, though I suspect the compromises they'd end up in with a BSPA conference even to agree (even without the legal implications being considered) will result in yet more arbitrary and meaningless decisions. Why? Because they have no clear long-term objectives or strategy. Goes back to finding somebody with the right skillset to establish and realise a vision and tell them what must be done to achieve it.

[Splatty]

Several posters have suggested that foreign riders should be reduced/or sadled with high averages. But Why? Foreign riders are better than british ones(sad but true ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm not sure I agree but if that is the case why? better backed? better sponsored? better trained? This is exactly why we are discussing these things - I personally remember an age when our riders thrived in a setup which only allowed top quality overseas riders in the old British League - there were very few '2nd rate' overseas riders and as such didn't clog up the natural path to progress for our guys - riders like Steve Bastable would have struggled to make the squad for a world team cup yet he had a 9 point average

 

compare that to now where reserve slots in Premier League teams are clogged and it is easy to see where the problem is - consider the chicken and the egg

 

If you look at the young poles, swedes, aussis etc, etc. They are more advanced than the british riders of a similar age. Why i dont know, but its an issue that needs addressing. It would however be unfair for promising young foreign talent to miss out because teams are being forced into riding dodgy british youngsters, in the faint hope that they will one day be a world champion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It can be argued (with ease) that if young Europeans are better than the Brits that it is because their leagues take care of their grass roots - they don't clog up the path to progress like us, not to mention that they are given opportunities to ride in a different country over here to gain more experience - and in the case of the Aussies there is no doubting the quality of the initial grass roots training that goes on over there but the riders are also taken better care of over here - they are a responsibility and an investment.....not to take anything away from the independant and single minded attitude that many of them seem to have

 

dodgy british riders??? very poor and you obviously need to get yourself to a few CL and U15 matches to see the quality that is out there

[louisec]

Several posters have suggested that foreign riders should be reduced/or sadled with high averages. But Why? Foreign riders are better than british ones(sad but true ). If you look at the young poles, swedes, aussis etc, etc. They are more advanced than the british riders of a similar age. Why i dont know, but its an issue that needs addressing. It would however be unfair for promising young foreign talent to miss out because teams are being forced into riding dodgy british youngsters, in the faint hope that they will one day be a world champion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

must disagree with what you have said as you have forgot to point out that these foriegners can race in sweden,poland,ect each week aswel as england but you dont get many young brits allowed to go over there and ride every week.

I think we are too soft letting them over here and there should be a stronger ruling like only 3 or 4 overseas riders per team max. This is the only way that we will get better british riders in my view.

[Subedei]

The thing is that at promoter level we don't have the discipline required. We could seek to reduce, over time, the volume of foreign riders in our leagues through a gentleman's agreement. But as soon as it suited a promoter to break the agreement, he would. And there's not a whole lot that can be done about it.

Ronnie Russell introduced foreign riders into the old National League. It started with a trickle, but turned into a flood.

[Splatty]

All those points and more should be debated, though I suspect the compromises they'd end up in with a BSPA conference even to agree (even without the legal implications being considered) will result in yet more arbitrary and meaningless decisions.  Why?  Because they have no clear long-term objectives or strategy.  Goes back to finding somebody with the right skillset to establish and realise a vision and tell them what must be done to achieve it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

totally agree Andy while so many of them are positively wetting themselves over who they can bring over for 8 matches at a time - but who has got the guts to lay it on the line?

[Subedei]

And you have to credit the Polish authorities for giving the youngsters the Wild Card places in their GPs.

Over here we fall back on the old semi-dependables. If Pepe was British we'd have him as a Wild Card, but the Poles go young.