Ivan Admits That Tony Is The Best!

[mark cox]

Well obviously this will never happen, as Ivan would have won 29 GP titles if it had been around in his day. I haven't read his recent interview in the Sun, so I don't if he was gushing in his praise of Tony, but the last time I read his comments, was about 3 years ago, when all he could do was talk up poor 'ol Ryan Sullivan, with not one word about the current giant of the sport!

Personally I think Tony's performances this year would've spurred the old buffer to say a few words of praise, along the lines of '' that bloke who keeps winning, he's quite good isn't he''.... but no, not a word!

So come on Ivan, a bit of respect is over due.

[Liontamer]

I don't think "the old buffer" as you so disrespectfully refer to him as owes anyone any respect as far as speedway goes. Ivan was, & still is a legend in the sport & was also a household name during his glittering career. Comparing Tony to Ivan is the same as trying to compare Peter Craven to Bluey Wilkinson, or Peter Collins to Jack Parker. Different riders, different machines, different tracks etc. They are/were all brilliant riders in their own time.

[robpeasley]

Ivan Mauger demands respect - he's certainly not an "old buffer"!

 

I think he has said positive things about Tony, but points out at the same time how a GP series favours the top rider at the time, and how riders from the past would have probably got into double figures given a GP series. All of which is probably true and fair comment.

 

All the best

Rob

[AndyM]

So far as I can see, Ivan's maintained a dignified silence about the subject. Have BSI or Sky Sports ever invited Ivan to a GP or interviewed him about Tony? If not, why not?

[shazzybird]

Two totally different World Champions one is Champion of the "One off Finals" and the other Champion of the "Grand Prix" each should be respected just that Mr Rickardsson is on his way to being in the record books.

[fatface]

I think this debate has been done once or twice before and yes it is difficult to compare riders from different eras - but that doesn't stop it being damn good fun.

 

Personally I'd go for Tony. I just think he's the complete package, he can gate, ride great first turns, can pass inside or outside, can race all types of tracks, is fast, can do it under pressure and is super-professional.

 

I also don't really buy this notion that Ivan would've won more titles under a GP system - was he really the best rider in the world in 77, 79 and even 72 for that matter? Probably not.

[SCB]

I also don't really buy this notion that Ivan would've won more titles under a GP system - was he really the best rider in the world in 77, 79 and even 72 for that matter?  Probably not.

Were Loram and Pedersen the best riders in the World the years they were World Champion? If you ask me, over the last 10 years Tony and Crumpy have been the best 2 riders in the World but Loram and Pedersen have interloped and stole 2 World Championships off them and all credit to both guys for having the ability to do so.

[LOL]

Were Loram and Pedersen the best riders in the World the years they were World Champion?  If you ask me, over the last 10 years Tony and Crumpy have been the best 2 riders in the World but Loram and Pedersen have interloped and stole 2 World Championships off them and all credit to both guys for having the ability to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[LOL]

Tony is the best in my opinion,Ivans day was pretty primitive,rule-wise with regards to 1.rolling starts 2.no two minute rule 3.not having to ride given tyres from one big batch 4.all having to ride on the same fuel on the night. i think with the 9 GP'S there are 9 pressure cooker events instead of 1. I've seen the stuff goin on behind the scenes with tony and he has pushed and pushed for that extra edge,while doing over 100 meetings all over the world!

My ten cents worth anyway!

 

LOL

[LOL]

(sorry i meant Not having to all ride on the same fuel)

[Nevs]

Nice to see you posting again Lol.

 

Hope you are Ok.

 

Regards from all the Exeter posse.

[mark cox]

His Majesty Ivan (who never has been or never will be an old buffer) is Speedways Millenium Man, with the most titles, points, highest average, the shiniest bike, the best leathers etc, and he was the best at a time when the sport's popularity was at its peak. He will always be the most famous rider.

BUT, when Rickardsson's closest rivals freely admit that Tony has 'raised the bar' in his approach, and is simply outstanding, it is interesting to see if Ivan acknowledges it.

I guess we'll have to get the latest issue of Backtrack to find out.

Yes it is impossible to say who's the best, but each generation of riders can only ride on the available technology then, and compete in whatever race format has been chosen.

This year Tony has just got better, with fast bikes on all kinds of tracks, and winning many races from the back, showing unsurpassed confidence and ability, with his Cardiff 'wall of death' being the highlight.

[AndyM]

Were Loram and Pedersen the best riders in the World the years they were World Champion?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since Loram became world champ without winning a single GP, he clearly wan't the best but was the most consistent. It's a different skillset to dominate a GP than to dominate a one-off world championship. We can argue the toss about whether Tony could have achieved his championships in the old days, but I'm convinced that Ivan's professionalism and consistency would have been made for GPs. If anything, he might have done better had the GP circus existed in those days.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the standard of competition was possibly higher in the 60s and 70s, and possibly even the 80s. Granted that machinery is three times quicker so it's hardly a fair comparison, but it seems to me that there were many more quality riders - those with a realistic chance of success - than in more recent times.

[fatface]

Were Loram and Pedersen the best riders in the World the years they were World Champion?  If you ask me, over the last 10 years Tony and Crumpy have been the best 2 riders in the World but Loram and Pedersen have interloped and stole 2 World Championships off them and all credit to both guys for having the ability to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good point - I'll give you that one SCB. But back to Ivan's era and I still think six world titles was about right for him, even if it had been a GP series. Szczakiel apart, I think the other 70s World Champs - Michanek, Collins, Olsen would still have won titles under a GP system.

[Grachan]

Good point - I'll give you that one SCB.  But back to Ivan's era and I still think six world titles was about right for him, even if it had been a GP series.  Szczakiel apart, I think the other 70s World Champs - Michanek, Collins, Olsen would still have won titles under a GP system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not too sure about Michenek as I'm not convinced he had the true dedication, but other than that I agree. The thing is, so many of those old one-off titiles were turned on one single race and it's impossible to make comparisons.

 

Would Ivan have won in 1972 even if they had had semi-finals and a final. Ole Olsen was far an away the best rider on the night but totally blew it in his first ride.

 

1977 - Ivan was again fortunate. Wasn't he back in third or fourth when John Boulger fell off in one race?

 

Ivan, therefore, certainly had his share of luck in those finals but who knows what would have happened with the GP in place.

 

I've long stuck with the theory that Ivan was the best, though, but I have to say that I'm starting to sway towards Rickardsson now with the way he's benn going this year. That Cardiff final came close to clinching it for me. His form this year is remarkable.

 

I don't see why Ivan should say he's the best. It's pure conjecture.

[AndyM]

Winning in 1-off finals where anything could happen usually did involve a slice of luck to some degree, but then the same has always been true of GPs too. My dad used to reckon the one-off finals should be replaced by GPs on the grounds that a single engine failure could be the difference between success and failure (it was Dave Jessup's broken rocker arm at Wembley that prompted the comment), though the more I think about it the more I prefer the razor's edge approach to the relative predictability of the GPs.

[Trees]

How can you say who is the best when they raced in differing eras, it's impossible!

[robpeasley]

OK, let's build a time machine, and get the following riders from the peak of their powers to fight out a GP series:

 

1. Ivan Mauger

2. Ove Fundin

3. Tony Rickardsson

4. Hans Nielsen

5. Barry Briggs

6. Ole Olsen

7. Erik Gundersen

8. Bruce Penhall

9. Jack Young

10. Ronnie Moore

11. Peter Craven

12. Peter Collins

13. Jan O. Pedersen

14. Bluey Wilkinson

15. Vic Duggan

16. Jack Parker

 

That'll solve all the arguments!!! :D

 

All the best

Rob

 

P.S. Good to see Lol on here. Hope it's going well mate.

[Subedei]

Don't really think Ivan Mauger can win whatever he does. If he stays silent he's criticised and if he was shouting off he'd be criticised as well.

Would Ivan have won 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 if there had been a GP series when he was in his pomp? Who knows? But you've got to think that Olsen would have lifted a few in a GP series and maybe Simmons, Jessup and a few others would have come to the fore.

Would TR have won 6 if he'd been in a 1-off final instead of the GPs? Who knows? You'd have to fancy Gollob getting a title if we'd had 1-off finals, as every so often it'd be held in Poland and the Poles would have pulled out all the stops to help him. But would Loram have won in a 1-off final? He won the GP series without winning a GP.

 

Edit:

 

And Rob, I think Cordy Milne should be in your series to be honest. Or should it be Jack Milne? One of the two, anyway.

Edited June 30, 2005 by Subedei

[Guest Jim Blanchard]

Does it really matter?

 

To look at just these three riders; Tony Rickardsson, Ivan Mauger and Ove Fundin who have between them have won a total of 16 world speedway championships, almost 17.

 

Is that just not awe inspiring? The skill required, the determination to succeed,

being so focussed. Perhaps, some good fortune in the mix too of course.

 

The format has evolved over the years as it should but they have been declared the world champion as they have competed at the highest level, won the races/got the most points.

 

I personally think that no speedway rider from any era; past, present or future can do no more than that.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jim Blanchard