Scoring System

[Dai Hard]

With the result now in no doubt (TR could miss half of the remaining GP's and would still probably be in the lead), I looked at how the standings would be if it was just the 20-heat points that counted.

 

Trick 62 (120)

Nicki 51 (68)

Jason 49 (75)

Leigh 45 (56)

Greg 42 (51)

Antonio 37 (53)

Hans 37 (43)

Tomasz G 36 (36)

Scotty 34 (34)

Andreas 32 (32)

Bjarne 32 (46)

Jarek 30 (38)

Ryan 29 (29)

Lee 22 (22)

Tomasz C 19 (19)

 

Trick still leads but at least the other have some hope of catching him. You could still have a run-off to decide the Chapion on the night but not have extra points added to their totals. This shows that the best rider over the whole series wins the title not someone who qualifies for most finals. It is possible under the present system to score 15-points max's in each round and still not win the title as opposed to scoring 8-9 and winning the world title.

[cpbyles]

With the result now in no doubt (TR could miss half of the remaining GP's and would still probably be in the lead), I looked at how the standings would be if it was just the 20-heat points that counted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I love the new format as most appear to do, but have to agree that the points system needs serious consideration. The problem being is that the G.P series is

tailor made for Television coverage, and the semi's and the Final make compulsive viewing, so I don't see an alternative except for reducing the points awarded for making that final.

[home straight]

Look at it another way.....

 

With the current scoring system TRick is miles ahead, can anybody honestly say that based his performances so far this year he doesn't deserve to be so far ahead? I think not.

 

If the only points up for grabs were the ones awarded during the first twenty heats, then yes he would still have a healthy margin, but, if God forbid he picked up and injury and had to sit out a GP then that gap could vanish, and that simply wouldn't be fair, he is so much better than everyone else this year.

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from Crump or Pedersen or any of the other top riders, but TRick just seems a class apart so far.

[Bernie]

I do not like the new points system. As Homestraight pointed out somebody gets injuried and they get no points. e.g Hampel I feel has been very consistent but will never be able to gain ground because of the way the points are distrubited.

 

If you get into the Semi Final you gain nothing for being their. Why have a semi final then and just say top 4 with the most points go to the Final.

[Wildcat Willie]

Thought from the start that the points difference was going to be to great if one rider was to win the majority of GP's and his closest rivals were to have one bad meeting. Thought it would end up a bit like F1 and Schumacker, and it has IMHO.

 

Would like to see the points system changed a bit next year, recon the riders should take the points they would recieve in the semi's and the Final. So you win a semi, you get extra three points then the same in the final. Would possibly get two more races of racing because just sitting for second place in a semi would lose a potential point.

 

I think this would keep the championship open for longer, because now I think it's just a race to see who finishes second.

 

Don't think that this points system would change the eventual outcome of the GP series, but would keep it closer for longer. Unless of coarse somebody goes through the card unbeaten at each GP or is just too good for everybody else!

 

Just worked out what the running totals would be if the above points system were to be in operation, as follows;

 

Rickardsson.....87

N Pedersen......62

Crump............61

Adams............51

Hancock..........47

Lindback.........45

Andersen........41

B Pedersen.....38

Hampel...........37

Gollob.............36

Nicholls...........34

Jonsson...........33

Sullivan...........28

Tomasz C........23

Richardson.......22

 

Don't think the overall positions change much, but it does see the points difference between the leader ( who will win the thing at the end what ever scoring is used) and the rest closer together.

 

IMHO that is the way to go, but i watch Conference League racing so what do I know!!!!!!!!

Edited June 27, 2005 by Wildcat Willie

[Splatty]

Bringing back 5 rides for the whole field was a good move but if they persist with this system they have to bridge the gap between the semi finalist losers and finalists - perhaps an extra 3/4 points for the losers?

[HenryW]

Bringing back 5 rides for the whole field was a good move but if they persist with this system they have to bridge the gap between the semi finalist losers and finalists - perhaps an extra 3/4 points for the losers?

But if you did that, the losing semi finalists could end with more points than the losing finalists. Would that be fair?

 

I don't think the problem this year is really the points distribution, it's the incredible form of Tony Rickardsson. Never before has the GP series seen such complete domination...and the knockers can't even whine and point to him getting the best gates every race

 

Last year a rider finishing last in the semi final, as Jason did last night, would have received 11 points. Last night Jason got 12, and could have had 15...so the losing semi-finalists can actually do better out of this current system.

 

Riders are rewarded for performing well in the qualifying heats, even if they fail in the semi final. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

[Subedei]

I do not like the new points system. As Homestraight pointed out somebody gets injuried and they get no points. e.g Hampel I feel has been very consistent but will never be able to gain ground because of the way the points are distrubited.

 

I'd say the new system has favoured Hampel. If he makes a couple more finals - and he's more than capable of it - he'll have recovered the ground lost to most of his rivals by missing the 2 GPs.

[iris123]

Can't understand what the problem is?Rickardsson is having a fantastic GP season,enjoy it.Lets not try and penalise a great rider for getting it right.Personally i liked the system used in Germany last year where the points from the first 20 heats and the semi's were added to find the 4 best scorers who go through to the final.That meant someone who had a 15 point max could still make the final if something went wrong in the semi,but lets not keep changing all the time.

[sjw ministerofport]

The new system is showing us just how great Trick is so whats wrong with that.

I watch each rider race five times at least and thats what i want to see.

Some of the top names will find it hard to get into the top eight places for next year and that will surely add spice to the later GP's

[Splatty]

But if you did that, the losing semi finalists could end with more points than the losing finalists. Would that be fair?

 

I don't think the problem this year is really the points distribution, it's the incredible form of Tony Rickardsson. Never before has the GP series seen such complete domination...and the knockers can't even whine and point to him getting the best gates every race

 

Last year a rider finishing last in the semi final, as Jason did last night, would have received 11 points. Last night Jason got 12, and could have had 15...so the losing semi-finalists can actually do better out of this current system.

 

Riders are rewarded for performing well in the qualifying heats, even if they fail in the semi final. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think the problem has anything to do with the incredible Trick - he would be miles ahead in any format - I'm talking more about the huge gap between the finalists and the rest of the field - I see your point about semi finalists possibly ending up scoring more than than the 4th placed rider in the final with my earlier mentioned solution (ahem) - i'm not sure what the answer is but this system imho is far more top heavy than last season which kind of defeats part of what they were trying to attain by changing the system

[pugwash]

Grand Final winner 25 pts, 2nd 20pts, 3rd 18 pts, 4th 16pts.

3rd place in the semi to receive 12 points or his points total from the 5 qualifier rides, whichever is the greatest. (He obviously couldn't score more than 15 points in the qualifiers).

4th place 10 points or his qualifier score.

[DC]

The current system places too much emphasis on the final. A rider can scrape through the main event with 8 points and walk away with 25. On the flip side, an engine failure in the semi could turn a 15 point main event score to exactly that - 15 points.

TV will probably dictate semi's & final but a compromise would be:

 

Final:

1st - 10pts + main event score

2nd - 8pts + main event score

3rd - 6pts + main event score

4th - 4pts + main event score

 

Semi:

3rd - 2pts + main event score

4th - 1pt + main event score

 

This would provide 25 points to the winner should he go through unbeaten (accept semi) as was the case with Tony at Wroclaw, and it would make every race point count. You can still see the "do enough to get through" mentality at times. It will also provide some benefit to riders making the semi, 1 or 2 points if they go out at that point.

 

Tony's total domination this year would put him way clear in any points configuration, but I think the above provides the fairest system available with all other aspects considered.

 

Top 5 using the above would be:

 

Tony Rickardson 25 19 23 22 21 110

Jason Crump 17 20 16 4 13 70

Nicki Pedersen 12 17 19 6 15 69

Leigh Adams 17 14 11 7 7 56

Greg Hancock 12 6 8 6 20 52

[AndyM]

Carrying forward points scored is fine. The problems only come when you start

awarding additional arbitrary points for semis and final places, which is why I'd sooner use a simple system based directly on achievements. If we must have semis and finals, I'd go with the suggestion for using the 3/2/1/0 points to add to main event totals.

[HenryW]

Carrying forward points scored is fine.  The problems only come when you start

awarding additional arbitrary points for semis and final places, which is why I'd sooner use a simple system based directly on achievements.  If we must have semis and finals, I'd go with the suggestion for using the 3/2/1/0 points to add to main event totals.

But if you did this, would the 4 highest scorers after semi finals qualify for the final, or the top 2 from each semi?

Would the winner of the GP be the winner of the final, or the highest point scorer?

 

Either way it looks pretty strange.

 

You could have a rider winning every GP but losing the series.

Or, you could have a rider losing every final but winning every round, totally negating the point of having the final in the first place!

[Neil H]

Think the point was shown up in the Czech GP as Scott scored 14 and was the best rider yet Jason, who finished 6 points behind Scott, ended the day with 16 cos he did better in 1 race. This time the best rider on the night finished fifth in the scoring.

 

The semi & final can still be run to decide the 'Champion' of xyzland but just have the 20-heats scores counting towards the overall championship. The best rider over their 45 races in the championship still wins the title.

Edited July 10, 2005 by Neil H

[Subedei]

I don't think any scoring system could mask the fact that TR is miles ahead of everyone. He's made every final and he's won 5 of 6 finals. In any scoring system he's going to be miles ahead.

 

Think the point was shown up in the Czech GP as Scott scored 14 and was the best rider yet Jason, who finished 6 points behind Scott, ended the day with 16 cos he did better in 1 race. This time the best rider on the night finished fifth in the scoring.

 

Your argument works, sort of. But you've got to think that the 20 qualification heats would be different if they counted more. And in that circumstance, it's far from clear that Nicholls would have ended with 14 points.

Edited July 10, 2005 by Subedei

[HenryW]

Just thought I would update this topic after the final GP of the season.

Chances are that I have made loads of mistakes putting this together, but I believe that the following are the points scored by the GP riders this year in all the regular 20 heats. For the top 15, the brackets show how their position differs from their actual final championship position.

 

1 T.Rickardsson 108 (=)

2 J.Crump 91 (=)

3 N.Pedersen 85 (+1)

4 L.Adams 83 (-1)

5 G.Hancock 78 (=)

6 A.Jonsson 73 (+2)

7 S.Nicholls 72 (+2)

8 T.Gollob 71 (-1)

9 B.Pedersen 64 (-3)

10 H.Andersen 58 (+2)

11 A.Lindback 55 (-1)

12 J.Hampel 50 (-1)

13 R.Sullivan 45 (+1)

14 L.Richardsson 44 (-1)

15 T.Chrzanowski 27 (=)

 

Others

K.Bjerre 12 (2 rounds)

S.Anderson 5 (1 round)

R.Povazhny 4 (1 round)

 

Wild Cards

M.Zagar 14 (2 rounds)

P.Protasiewicz 11

N.K.Iversen 7

R.Holta 6

J.Davidsson 4

D.Norris 4

K.Kasprzak 4

A.Dryml 3

[pugwash]

Works out pretty much the same but for a few positions, so guess that the system is fair.

I think that with the exception of Jarek Hampel the riders final official positions are a fair judgement to their performances. As we all are aware Jarek would have probably been top 6 but for his injuries.

Still on reviewing this years GP series I have to admit that on reflection the old system of eliminators every 4 heats was more exciting. This series has been a bit a drag as the tension doesn't start until heat 17 or so.