Phil Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 I was wondering if there used or if they ever experimented with any staggered start races with 6 more riders? Best riders at the back and see if they can win the race at the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 I know they did this in the 16 lappers. Qualifying heats followed by an 8 man, 16 lap final, with the top 4 qualifiers off the back row. Can't think of any other instances though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff. Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Back in the sixties the big five, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore, Bjorn Knutsson and the late Peter Craven did it in every race in every match, from 20 yards I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 In the very early days of the sport - and I'm talking 1928 here - they used to do things like that. There were lots of handicap events with anything up to 8 riders in them. There was one memorable occasion at High Beech when a rider, who had never ridden speedway before, started the afternoon with a sixteen second start and by the end of the day's racing was going off scratch. His name...Jack Parker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 It's a big thing in American racing, handicap events. Sometimes up to 4 rows of riders, whether it's 1, 2 or 3 riders at the different yard-markers. It's great to watch even on their tiny tracks. Bring it on Phil !! Is this ya plan for the 24th at the Sheffield TT ??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 What were the problems of them? Would it not be good viewing to see the likes of Billy H come from the back of an 8 rider race to win it. The issues I can think of is there is not enough time to get from back to front in so few laps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 It's a big thing in American racing, handicap events.Sometimes up to 4 rows of riders, whether it's 1, 2 or 3 riders at the different yard-markers. It's great to watch even on their tiny tracks. Bring it on Phil !! Is this ya plan for the 24th at the Sheffield TT ??!! Fun idea (or mabye not!) but seriously I am sure you know that racing is strictly forbidden on training tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Not forgetting they also handicap the riders in the Ladbroke Olympique at Wolverhampton. Your first race from the startline, then the more points you score in that - the further back you go for your next start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 If you have riders of a different standard like that could it not be pretty dangerous? Can you imagine the likes of Carl Stonehewer having to round Jitu Duffil and Carlos Villar and survive? :roll: :twisted: If the standard was nearer to being level across the board then surely handicaped racing cant be justified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 There was the 10 rider,10 lap final at the Sheffield Diamond Jubilee meeting back in 1988,the riders lined up 3-2-3-2 with the last two starting virtually on the 4th turn,Kelly won it ,starting at the front,best gate he evermade lol,but it was a great sight watching them all go round,I think about 7 finished the race in all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Back in the sixties the big five, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore, Bjorn Knutsson and the late Peter Craven did it in every race in every match, from 20 yards I believe. ..............but methinks, only when they were world champion. I believe this was abandoned in '65 when the BL started. It was '65 weren't it? Coventry v Cradley, Heat 1 Lightfoot beats Ivor Brown and would have gone on to get the first BL maximum if his chain hadn't given up the ghost when leading in his last heat. Shattered me toughened windscreen that night on the way to Brandon. Had to drive 60 miles with a hole punched in it................ah happy days!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Back in the sixties the big five, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore, Bjorn Knutsson and the late Peter Craven did it in every race in every match, from 20 yards I believe. ..............but methinks, only when they were world champion. I believe this was abandoned in '65 when the BL started. It was '65 weren't it? Handicapping for the "Big Five" was abandoned in 1964 because by then there were only three of them, Briggs, Fundin and Knutsson and they refused to continue with the handicapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylor Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Back in the sixties the big five, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore, Bjorn Knutsson and the late Peter Craven did it in every race in every match, from 20 yards I believe. ..............but methinks, only when they were world champion. I believe this was abandoned in '65 when the BL started. It was '65 weren't it? Handicapping for the "Big Five" was abandoned in 1964 because by then there were only three of them, Briggs, Fundin and Knutsson and they refused to continue with the handicapping. Thanks Norbold. So how did the Big Five become the Big Five? If it was because of their standing in the WC how did they get reduced to three? Or was it because they were the only world champions still riding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 I may be way off base, but I thought Handicapped racing was banned after Peter Craven was killed in a handicaped race? Sort me out on this one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 The Big Five became the Big Five because they were much better than all the other riders around at the time. They were in a class of their own effectively. Between them they won every World Championship between 1954 and 1967 and more often than not the second and third also came from their ranks. They also consistently topped the league averages and the 'Speedway Star' unofficial World Rankings table. It became three in 1964 because Peter Craven had been killed at the end of 1963 and Ronnie Moore had retired. Peter Craven was killed in a challenge match against Edinburgh but that was not the reason handicapping was abandoned. Briggs and Fundin in particular had had enough of it and threatened not to ride if handicapping was continued. That was why it was abandoned during the 1964 season. Incidentally, just before it was abandoned, Gote Nordin had shown such brilliant form at Wimbledon that many thought he ought to join the, by now, Big Three on the backmark (20 yards). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Great answer Norbold, thanks for the facts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom House Kid Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 In the second half at West Ham in the 60s they used to have Handicap races for the junior riders :!: looking at my old progs i found number of races eg Grand six lap elimination handicap 27th sept 1966 R Mike Stevenitt scr B Don Smith 10yds W Reg Trott 10yds Y&B Brian leonard 30yds G&W Molly Simmons 30 Yds Result B Y&B W Time 116.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mIcK50 Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Handicap races have been a staple of Oz speedway since Moses played fullback for the Jews. While it looks a bit dangerous, it is a great way for a beginner to start off his racing with the chance of winning a few races and gaining confidence. It is also a good way for riders to learn how to win races from the back. The handicapping usually worked like this: If you won a handicap race, your handicap was increased by ten yards the next week. If you failed to win your handicap was reduced by ten yards, ( but, not of course, if you failed to win from the scratch mark!) Some of the best riders had some enormous handicaps and to see people like Jim Airey and Gordon Guasco at the Royale and Chum Taylor, Les Sharpe, Dud McKean and Ken MacKinlay at Claremont, blasting their way thru the field was a great sight. When he raced at Rowley Park in Adelaide in the early 60's, Ivan Mauger was on a handicap of 200 yards plus and was at one stage, starting BEHIND the great Jack Young! It's a great way to learn, but when you are a very nervous 'wobbler' trying to find your way around the track and you are suddenly passed by one of the backmarkers at top speed, you get a very scarey reminder of just how fast this speedway game is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old Swinger Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Handicap racing (both solos and sidecars) used to make up at least half of all programs in Australia. At the Sydney Showground they used to race over 3 laps (it was a 1/3 mile track) and other 1/4 mile tracks were usually 4 laps. All classes of riders were in the same race race with novices starting off the "gate" up to about 30 yards behind, with the stars such as Jim Airey, Gordon Guasco, Bob Sharp etc starting up to 130 yards behind scratch. gordon guasco went from riding off 10 yards to 120 yards in a matter of six meetings in the early sixties. Sidecar riders such as Bob Levy, Doug Robson and Bill Bingham would also race off 120-130 yards. The racing was pretty hectic and the backmarkers won more than their share of races (better than 60% when I checked some old programmes). I don't think it was all that dangerous as the quickies from the back usually had a lot of space to pick the line of the slower riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 I think a look at the scores from golden doubles shows the problem with reintroducing handicapping. Simply it is too difficult to pass even when giving away only 15 metres. The few successful golden doubles usually come from heat 8 or 14 and involve a number one against a weak second string and a reserve. Mind you it works in the States and the Olympique is still a good meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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