Costs Of Speedway A Joke

[badge wearer]

its not just there it ends having recently read that riders still only get 10p a mile travel and HAVE to pay £4.50 per race insurance let alone engine bills etc,some one on here must know that there must be a very rich middle man earning money out of the insurance just do a quick calculation of what the total figure is for british speedway for 1 week is regarding insurance -a lot of money

[Vince]

Jim, from what I have seen there are fairly often checks on carbs but as far as I know there has to be a protest in order for the engine to be checked. They are then sealed prior to being checked but I don't know what happens from there (Sam has never gone fast enough to be accused of running an oversize engine ) I suspect that at most tracks the riders have more than enough power and wouldn't need to resort to oversize engines. I do know a very well known Grass Track rider from the 70's who bought an engine off another well known rider and after winning a top meeting commented that the engine he had bought was a flyer to the ex owner who replied that "all those 580's do" I suspect that they have always been more of a myth than fact in Speedway though as the risk of being caught would be pretty great.

The R6 cup is a great idea (KTM do a similar thing is Supermoto) in many ways but I do wonder if it stifles talent by only being available to those who can make that sort of investment in one hit. I would think that more people could afford to race with the costs split over the course of a season.

Andy M, the last I heard there was a shortage of both GM's and the latest Jawa engines so I don't think there is much chance of getting a substantial discount. There is also the problem that riders tend to buy bikes in bits as many want a GM engine or NEB clutch or Antig frame and so on. Or finances might restrict them to buying an engine now and a new chassis in a few months time. The market is pretty small and secondhand equipment is readily available at very reasonable prices. The problem in the CL is that some are on standard equipment while others are spending several thousand pounds on tuned motors. There are riders in the CL who have 2 or 3 engines each one of which cost more than both of Sam's complete bikes together. Having said that if the rider has the potential to ride that sort of equipment to it's potential he's not going to be in the CL for long, if he is getting beaten by riders on lesser equipment he is the one spending money needlessly. However it is only human nature for riders to think that they are only being beaten because of better equipment and perhaps spend money they can't afford trying to level the playing field. I still think that a 3 grand engine is probably pretty worthless with a £100 carb sat on it.

[Guest Jim Blanchard]

The R6 cup is a great idea (KTM do a similar thing is Supermoto) in many ways but I do wonder if it stifles talent by only being available to those who can make that sort of investment in one hit. I would think that more people could afford to race with the costs split over the course of a season.

 

I don't think it would 'stifle' talent Vince, it would by its nature be 'selective' of course and as in road racing there are many that would not be able to afford the 'one hit' fee and go down the normal route of club racing of paying and developing as they go. By its nature it would be regarded as an elitist group but such is life, as there are privileged groups anyway in all walks. As we know to well! I think it has merit anyway.

Edited April 25, 2005 by Jim Blanchard

[AndyM]

Andy M, the last I heard there was a shortage of both GM's and the latest Jawa engines so I don't think there is much chance of getting a substantial discount. There is also the problem that riders tend to buy bikes in bits as many want a GM engine or NEB clutch or Antig frame and so on. Or finances might restrict them to buying an engine now and a new chassis in a few months time. The market is pretty small and secondhand equipment is readily available at very reasonable prices. The problem in the CL is that some are on standard equipment while others are spending several thousand pounds on tuned motors. There are riders in the CL who have 2 or 3 engines each one of which cost more than both of Sam's complete bikes together. Having said that if the rider has the potential to ride that sort of equipment to it's potential he's not going to be in the CL for long, if he is getting beaten by riders on lesser equipment he is the one spending money needlessly. However it is only human nature for riders to think that they are only being beaten because of better equipment and perhaps spend money they can't afford trying to level the playing field. I still think that a 3 grand engine is probably pretty worthless with a £100 carb sat on it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good answer, though I still believe this is all the more reason for buying habits to be standardised to enable prices to be reduced. Bear in mind that selling by component actually makes the manufacturer more money than selling whole machines.

 

And the more specialised those components, the higher the margin over equivalent components on road bikes. Can we use generic components to reduce costs?

[Kevin Meynell]

some one on here must know that there must be a very rich middle man earning money out of the insurance just do a quick calculation of what the total figure is for british speedway for 1 week is regarding insurance -a lot of money

 

Look at the insurance risks involved in speedway though.

[AndyM]

Yes, Kevin. On another thread there was a discussion about how most speedway riders are at least underinsured (income protection, health etc.) because the premiums would be unaffordable, which leaves them exposed in the event of injury.

 

Is the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund still in existence? If so, surely it can only provide limited assistance.

[badge wearer]

yes but a rider pays £4.50 a race then in return will get £150 per week after something like 2-3 weeks off that too me is unfari on a rider.i think the speedway riders ben.fund is still going with approx.£800,000 in it but no one knows who exactly holds the strings to it....

[neil_L]

some of this discussion is relevant to the laydowns discussion.

 

What no-one has paid attention to is that speedway riders come in different shapes and sizes. Standard low power engines will mean the lighter guy wins every time as they can pull a tall gear. The racing would be extreamly dull.

 

I would argue the only way standard engines would work would be to go to bigger more torque engines. Thus riders of all shapes / styles can use the right amout of throttle to give them drive. Bigger cc engines would need less revs to pull and thus the engines should last longer and still give those riders with skill to ride the dirt plenty of drive.

 

In conclusion though standardisation appears good it just wouldn't work. As I've said many many times I believe modern speedway is still exciting. Better track prep is a higher priority.

[Kevin Meynell]

yes but a rider pays £4.50 a race then in return will get £150 per week after something like 2-3 weeks off that too me is unfari on a rider.

 

It seems a lot (and probably is for Conference rider), but look at the high chance of moderate to serious injury to oneself, plus the ever present threat of public liability. Quite honestly, I'm amazed that any insurance company would even touch speedway, let alone do it for under GBP 20 per meeting.

 

I expect speedway insurance is not an 'off-the-shelf' product so needs a specialist company or specific arrangements to be made. Unfortunately, with such a small market, that is never going to come cheap.

[Guest Isaac Hunt]

600cc engines the answer ?

[pudding]

600cc engines the answer ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why ???? it would be just the same , tuned to the max & still costing £'ssss , six lap races is worth looking at , rider's would need a more durable motor , the insurance will be the same , supporters see more action and it wouldnt cost anything to implement , am i the only one who think it could work

[AndyM]

Exactly. Detuning is good, extra capacity is throwing petrol on the bonfire!

[Vince]

I think 6 lap races would just lead to the same engines being rebuilt more often and therefore becoming more expensive.

Can't see any benefit in bigger engines as I think they would just be adding more speed to the equation.

I still think that if you are going to introduce any sort of restriction it has to be simple and easy to police. Restricting manifold sizes or similar will never work as people will just spend a fortune trying to get the same power as before the restriction. One obvious thing that nobody has mentioned is adding weight to the bikes, I don't believe it would be practical as by the time you added enough to make a real difference the bikes might become difficult to ride. It is another option though.

[pudding]

vince my idea of 6 lap races would also add weight to the bikes due to more fuel being needed , we all know you will never stop development of race machines so it needs a different approach thats easy & cheap to imlement , and MY idea would give speedway more value for your money ,

[Malcolm]

I've just watched Briggo's Golden Greats from 1989 in Landshut, Germany. Penhall, Collins, Betts, Fundin, Knutsson, Wassermann, etc etc.

10,000 fans 2 Valve Jawas and a well pepared track with dirt. This was obviously just for fun, however still great speedway.

 

In my Grand Plan thread I suggest lower hp for engines and smaller tracks for the lower leagues.

 

Jawa make a 2 Valve still and it can be bought in an upright configuration.

Jawa

2 valve formula ford type racing for the CL with smaller tracks allowed giving a greater chance to build one.

Small is beautiful

Would Carmarthen Dragons still be going if they went for a smaller track? I wonder.

 

I would like to see good modern riders on 2 Valves, http://www.ollenygren.com/ has some.

Good old fashioned challenge match. Can't be that hard to organize, maybe the upper echelon wouldn't compete, I bet you could get Screen, Stoney, Wilson etc to have a go. Proper meeting, good prize money and upright 2 valves on a track with DIRT!!

[AndyM]

That was December 2003, Malcolm. Don't suppose the BSPA, Benfield or the equipment manufacturers have been beating a path to your door in the meantime, probably because there are too many vested interests to sort out what needs to be done.

 

Yours is an eloquent vision which doesn't uninvent the past 30 years. Where are the visionaries with authority to make it happen?

[Guest cheetahhawk]

Is the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund still in existence? If so, surely it can only provide limited assistance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes AndyM, the Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund is still in existence. The treasurer is Bernard Crapper and I am just one of his helpers that do the collections. Every track has a collection once a year and we also do collections at big meetings such as the EL pairs, PL pairs, British Final,PL and EL riders finals.

There is a thread at the top of the page on Speedway General Discussions, all about the Ben, Fund.

Edited April 23, 2005 by cheetahhawk

[Malcolm]

That was December 2003, Malcolm.  Don't suppose the BSPA, Benfield or the equipment manufacturers have been beating a path to your door in the meantime,

 

I'm still waiting for a call. Maybe I was out and missed it.

[lionheart]

I posted a suggestion about standard engines nearly 2 years ago. I cannot see why it wouldnt work. Do we really think that highly tuned 4-valvers add anything but cost to speedway ?

I dont think there is much rocket science involved in a making a virtually unbreakable standard engine that is simple to produce. Work out the numbers of riders in the leagues produce say 3 engines per rider. Divide the cost of the engines plus a factor to allow for overhauls after a given number of meetings. Divide this cost by the numbers of riders registered, and that is the cost for each rider to register. The engines are held by the tracks and each rider draws a number. That is their engine for the meeting. Carbs and settings are sealed, no tinkering allowed. The only adjustment allowed is by way of chainwheels and sprockets to suit the rider. Obviously each rider will have his own frames since these are custom built . It might even be cheaper to throw an engine away if it should blow up !

I expect an awful lot of flak after this posting

[cpbyles]

  I expect an awful lot of flak after this posting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good, you absolutely deserve it !!

 

Tracks holding the engines ? - drawing numbers ?, this has been branded around before and is a totally ludicrous idea !! Supposing the home team was totally honest and the selection of engines was totally random (fat chance) it is unfair that a riders pay night depends purely on how lady luck deals him an engine.

We already know that two so called identical engines are NOT going to be identical

let alone 14 of them - I can just imagine Beckham or Rooney having to draw numbers to see what boots their playing in - regardless of size !!