British Speedway Crowds

[rabbit]

Have to agree with you Onceadon. I was quite stunned (and with no disrespect at all intended to either club, because I had a great time at both) at how poor the attendances were when I visited Newcastle and Glasgow last season. I don't think there could have been more than 400-500 at either meeting. I know I'm not coming from a level playing field with Poole as my indicator but it made me appreciate how lucky we are and that despite all the hype things aren't as rosy as some in the sport with have you think.

 

Add to this that on average, an EL number 1 apparently requires around 300-400 people through the gate just to pay that one rider and you can see that however it may appear there's not a lot left at the end of the day to line anyones pockets! And that's just one out of 7 men to pay - God knows the wage bill for clubs with 2 or 3 GP riders! No wonder sponsorship is so important - but even so how do some of these clubs keep going? Say what you want about promoters but I can't see there's many getting a lot back out of the sport on it's own!

[Ian]

Why did 1950s tracks need so many customers to remain open?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Probably because the promoters of the day believed that they were charging what the market would bear in terms of admission costs. When the exhorbitant "entertainment tax" was dumped on them I guess quite a few thought "sod it, I've had enough".

 

Incidentally, I was told recently that that iniquitous tax was actually levied at a higher rate on speedway than it was on football. Does anyone know what the respective rates were? Is it true that speedway was taxed at an incredible 40%?

[norbold]

Yes, speedway was taxed at a higher rate than football. I can't recall the exact amounts at the moment but I can find out. The reason speedway was taxed higher was because it was not classed as a sport but a trial of speed!

[Ian]

Yes, speedway was taxed at a higher rate than football. I can't recall the exact amounts at the moment but I can find out. The reason speedway was taxed higher was because it was not classed as a sport but a trial of speed!

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Diesn't that seem incredible? They'd never do that now. They might bang people up on the say-so of a politician though.

 

As far as the "trial of speed" goes, the promoters of the day would have done well to argue that football was a trial of patience.

[Lejon]

Yes, speedway was taxed at a higher rate than football. I can't recall the exact amounts at the moment but I can find out. The reason speedway was taxed higher was because it was not classed as a sport but a trial of speed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

According "Speedway in London" page 43 Fred Mockford explained in the New Cross Progamme that the World Final income of £22,600 got taxated bill of £10,200!!!

If sPeedway had been reconed as a sport the bill would have been at a more modest £3100.

By the way I want to thank for all the information given so far and I hope there is somebody out there who knows what the crowd figures was when West Ham and Wembley came back in the mid sixties and early seventies.I know that there were 15000 for HAmmers opener against Wimbledon and 20000 at Wembley for the opening game against Hackney.

And what are the crowd figures for Dons since they returned?

 

[norbold]

Speedway in London? That's a good book.

[Ian]

Speedway in London? That's a good book.

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All together now....

 

"Oh no it isn't!"

 

Just kidding, Norbold.

[norbold]

You scamp, Ian.

[Custom House Kid]

You scamp, Ian.

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Very Vernacular!

[Ian]

You scamp, Ian.

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Very Vernacular!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gosh! Golly! Crikey!

[norbold]

Now you sound like Boris Johnson!

[shazzybird]

Dad said in years gone by it had been known for Canterbury had a record crowd of 5,000 in the later years in went down to 2,000ish. If Lynne is reading this perhaps she could get a more realistic figure from Mum.

[Mylor]

...........If Poole are anything to go by, their rent for the stadium apparently increases if they go over a certain crowd number...strange but true.

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Looked at another way, Poole get a discount when crowds are low..........seems like a good deal to me. How many other stadium owners do that?

 

On the attendance front, I first went to speedway at Wolves in 1961. Attendances were reckoned to be about 7000 then. Well, it was open all the way round!

 

Ahhh..........Graham Warren, Tommy Sweetman........later Dave Hemus, James Bond, Airey and Guasco, a visit from Fred Priest (did he ever stay up for 4 laps??), not forgetting visits from Ivor Brown and Harry Bastable and of course the mother-in-law's favourite Jimmy Squibb. God bless ya Ma, tell Jimmy to have one on me!!

[Lejon]

On the attendance front, I first went to speedway at Wolves in 1961. Attendances were reckoned to be about 7000 then. Well, it was open all the way round!

 

 

As I know this was a opening season when they returned into leagus speedway.

Did these crowds stay on for long or did they decrease fast?

Do you know the crowd figures of Wolves today?

[tarabanko]

On the attendance front, I first went to speedway at Wolves in 1961. Attendances were reckoned to be about 7000 then. Well, it was open all the way round!

 

 

As I know this was a opening season when they returned into leagus speedway.

Did these crowds stay on for long or did they decrease fast?

Do you know the crowd figures of Wolves  today?

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Lejon..

 

The crowds in england arent so biggish no more, sadly. Think Poole got the best attendance overall.

 

As always to raise your crowds you must be seen and be worth looking at.

Go Lejonen for a place in Elitserien 2005.

Edited March 5, 2005 by tarabanko

[SCB]

SCB, perhaps you can enlighten me how a club can keep going on gates of 400 a week, because I can't believe that they manage to. What amazes me all the more is that new clubs are opening up or potentially opening, such as Scunthorpe, Middlesborough, Long Eaton & Halifax.

in Newport's case, this is all me guessing BTW, it's something like this.

 

Admission is about £12, £9 and £3 now (I'm not sure of them prices)lets assume 2/5 are adults, 2/5 are kids and 1/5 are concessions, thats £1920 from adults, £720 from concessions and £480 from kids, £3120 all told. Add in say one programme for every 5th person, 80 programs at say a 50p profit is £40, 100 in the car park is £100 (£3260 so far). Stand has about 150 on a day where there are only 400 fans there, so another £200 (£3460). Add in bar profits and food outlets as well (no idea, I'll not even guess) thats £460+ a week for each rider. I don't know what costs Tim Stone has or what other income he has (I guess he has a few sponsors too that bring in some cash).

 

Mind you, it amazes me that a team like Berwick can cope on so few as they only get the cash form the turnstiles. So they're only get the £3120 - rent + progams. Not a lot at all.

[norbold]

According "Speedway in London" page 43 Fred Mockford explained in the New Cross Progamme that the World Final income of £22,600 got taxated bill of £10,200!!!

If sPeedway had been reconed as a sport the bill would have been at a more modest £3100.

 

I've just been looking at the 1951 World Final gate receipts.

 

The total taken was £24,241 of which 46.5% went in Entertainment Tax, i.e. £11,279.

 

Had it been a soccer, rugby, cricket or ice hockey match or an athletics, lawn tennis, swimming, cycling or boxing meeting the tax taken would have been £3,344 (13.79%).

 

The comment from the Speedway Control Board was, "The comparatively high admission charges made necessary by this heavy tax have undoubtedly contributed to the decline in attendances on many tracks during the year. If justice was done and this heavy and illogical tax was adjusted to the level obtaining for other non-betting sports, promoters would be able to reduce admission charges, giving a stimulus to attendances, badly needed by many tracks if they are to survive."

 

Incientally the attendance at the 1951 World Final was 93,000

Edited March 7, 2005 by norbold

[Ian]

I've just been looking at the 1951 World Final gate receipts.

 

The total taken was £24,241 of which 46.5% went in Entertainment Tax, i.e. £11,279.

 

Had it been a soccer, rugby, cricket or ice hockey match or an athletics, lawn tennis, swimming, cycling or boxing meeting the tax taken would have been £3,344 (13.79%).

 

The comment from the Speedway Control Board was, "The comparatively high admission charges made necessary by this heavy tax have undoubtedly contributed to the decline in attendances on many tracks during the year. If justice was done and this heavy and illogical tax was adjusted to the level obtaining for other non-betting sports, promoters would be able to reduce admission charges, giving a stimulus to attendances, badly needed by many tracks if they are to survive."

 

Incientally the attendance at the 1951 World Final was 93,000

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What a fascinating and information-packed post.

 

93,000 people at the Worl Final during a period of decline! I imagine every one of today's promoters would give his eye teeth for that sort of decline nowadays.

 

Thinking with the benefit of hindsight about that tax imposition, you would imagine that the promoters of the day would have found ways to avoid it. Free entry but you have to pay for the programme would be one that would come to mind. If I'm not mistaken I went to a match at Rye House years ago when there was some sort of restriction on Sunday speedway and the "entry by programme" angle was in use.

 

I realise that you'll be well aware of this Norbold, but, for the benefit of anyone who isn't, the government that implemented this killer tax was a Tory one. You know them, the party of low taxes!

 

How about a Forum-wide campaign to write to Michael Howard asking why the Tories tried to kill speedway, and what any future Tory government might do to make amends for this?

 

History records, of course, that during the Wilson government from 1964 onwards speedway was on a roll......

[norbold]

the government that implemented this killer tax was a Tory one.

 

I think you're on dangerous territory here, Ian! The Entertainments Tax was originally introduced in 1916. It was increased in 1949 and again in 1950....

[Lejon]

SCB, perhaps you can enlighten me how a club can keep going on gates of 400 a week, because I can't believe that they manage to. What amazes me all the more is that new clubs are opening up or potentially opening, such as Scunthorpe, Middlesborough, Long Eaton & Halifax.

in Newport's case, this is all me guessing BTW, it's something like this.

 

Admission is about £12, £9 and £3 now (I'm not sure of them prices)lets assume 2/5 are adults, 2/5 are kids and 1/5 are concessions, thats £1920 from adults, £720 from concessions and £480 from kids, £3120 all told. Add in say one programme for every 5th person, 80 programs at say a 50p profit is £40, 100 in the car park is £100 (£3260 so far). Stand has about 150 on a day where there are only 400 fans there, so another £200 (£3460). Add in bar profits and food outlets as well (no idea, I'll not even guess) thats £460+ a week for each rider. I don't know what costs Tim Stone has or what other income he has (I guess he has a few sponsors too that bring in some cash).

 

Mind you, it amazes me that a team like Berwick can cope on so few as they only get the cash form the turnstiles. So they're only get the £3120 - rent + progams. Not a lot at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your conclusion is quite right and very interesting. My conclusions is that if we rode that many matches and with the admission prices as you do in the U.K to keep teh figures as a promotor our league crowds would drop by 50 to 70%!!

 

Is it possible that is the reason for the crowd drops? And as Ian told us the admission prices has gone up by about 300% since the sixties.

 

Any comments?

 

Norbold - Have you any pre-war crowd figures for New Cross?

 

yours in sport - Lejon