GP Pay Rates

[f-s-p]

Great Britain won the Olympics twice? in the thirties in ice hockey, thats not bad =) What comes to british hockey being third rate in world ice hockey, now that would give me every right to say finnish speedway is second only to SGP! 4th rate and 40 year old hasbeen's finnish players come to UK to play... and get pretty good money.

 

I think Manhcester Storm played in the now dead and buried European Hockey League. If I remember right they played in a 15000+ capacity ice rink, for reasonable crowds. The current European Cup for ice hockey isn't too respected in ice hockey countries.

 

I'm also quite proud to say that Finland is currently number two in world ice hockey after losing against Canada in the World Cup final a month ago.

[Kevin Meynell]

Great Britain won the Olympics twice?

 

Yes, but I think I'm correct in saying that every player in the Olympic-winning side was either Canadian or had moved there at a young age. They were able to play for Great Britain by virtue of Canadians having British passports in those days.

[f-s-p]

Yes, but I think I'm correct in saying that every player in the Olympic-winning side was either Canadian or had moved there at a young age. They were able to play for Great Britain by virtue of Canadians having British passports in those days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats the only way Finland is ever going to make it in football. We played against Albania or Romania, and won 2-0 or something. Goals scored for Finland Shefki Kugi, originally from Kosovo, and Alexei Eremenko jr, from somewhere. His father came to Finland in the 80's to play, and his son got finnish passport.

[Trees]

Got off the subject of the thread here a little

 

It's obvious that Ice blooming Hockey attracts larger crowds than speedway hence the larger pay packets.

 

Having said that, there is more money to be had from the product and it seems that BSI is pocketing it all, right or wrong. The FIM sold out to them and unless the crowds go down dramatically at GP's I guess they are on board for the foreseeable future.

 

The FIM were so wrong to sell out, think we all agree with that??

[stevehone]

The fundamental difference between speedway and ice hockey is that British Speedway features most of the top riders in the world, whereas British ice hockey is a third-rate by world standards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

but riders are still happy to put British speedway as 3rd choice in priorities

[Kevin Meynell]

Trees,

 

The FIM were so wrong to sell out, think we all agree with that??

 

I think it depends. The SGP was at a low-ebb at the time, and was possibly losing money. Therefore, it an organisation comes along that promises to rejuvenate the competition and generate some income for the FIM, then I'm not sure it was not such a bad thing.

 

However, the question must be asked why the World Finals were allowed to deteriorate so badly in the first place. A conspiracy theorist might suggest it was done deliberately to ensure that the creation and selling-off of the SGP was a fait accompli. Even if you don't believe in conspiracies, why couldn't the likes of the BSPA and the Polish and Swedish authorities have done what BSI did?

 

Finally, it's one thing to award five-year contracts, but a twenty-year contract is ridiculous, particularly as it appears that BSI can pull out if television and sponsorship money doesn't reach certain levels. That's the thing that's a sell-out.

Edited November 4, 2004 by Kevin Meynell

[Derwent]

On the face of it, the GP is not generating much income for the riders involved - however, I wonder how much extra sponsorship they receive from being involved ?

[Kevin Meynell]

riders are still happy to put British speedway as 3rd choice in priorities

 

Only because they're allowed to. If you made an ultimatum between the SGP and British speedway, it would be interesting to see how many would opt for the SGP.

[Unibabe]

Has nobody thought how little money would matter if you had just been crowned Speedway World Champion. It is what almost every rider aspires to be and i am sure the feeling is priceless. Like the mastercard adverts, Hotel bills £200 travel expenses £350 being world champion priceless!

[Kevin Meynell]

Has nobody thought how little money would matter if you had just been crowned Speedway World Champion.

 

I think it's irrelevant what the riders want or think. The issue is whether the national leagues who pay the bulk of the rider wages, should allow their schedules to be disrupted without getting any benefit in return (in terms of income or improved exposure). If the SGP can be turned into a competition employing the top riders full-time, then that's fair enough, but that's far from being the case at the moment. I have no doubt that riders could not afford to do the SGP without the existence of one or more of the national leagues, and yet the national leagues arguably get no benefit from the SGP at all.

[Marky_Mark]

I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship. Its a lot easier to attract the big payers with the television coverage provided by the Grand Prix series.

[Kevin Meynell]

I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship.

 

Sure, but what do the domestic competitions get out of it?

[Marky_Mark]

Sorry Kev, not completely understanding your question. But if you're asking what British speedway gets from the GP's?

 

- The fact that people see it on the TV and want to go and watch it live at their local track

 

- It cant be denied that the top riders attract extra people through the turnstiles, people want to see the current world champ riding on their track.

 

Of course I,m not talking about regular supporters, as we will go to every meeting regardless but new people coming into the sport.

 

As for domestic competitions, as far as Im concerned the GP didnt affect them too badly this season? There were no GP rider restrictions this year and yet most teams managed to get their weekly meetings on during a GP week. In fact some teams (Eastbourne) just ran without their GP riders.

[Kevin Meynell]

- The fact that people see it on the TV and want to go and watch it live at their local track

 

I think that was the hope, but I don't think we can honestly say that we've seen an increase in domestic attendances over the past six years. In fact, I'd say we've seen the opposite, and I suspect much of that is down to the irregular schedules and missing riders caused by the SGP.

 

- It cant be denied that the top riders attract extra people through the turnstiles, people want to see the current world champ riding on their track.

 

True, but that was also the case with the old World Championship which didn't cause anything like the same disruption.

 

As for domestic competitions, as far as Im concerned the GP didnt affect them too badly this season?

 

Friday and Saturday night teams can't ride on ten prime weeks of the season (if you include the SWC), and there were still far too many instances of GP'itis.

 

In fact some teams (Eastbourne) just ran without their GP riders.

 

Do you consider that acceptable to the paying public, particularly if they're getting no obvious benefit from the SGP?

[Marky_Mark]

Some vaild points there Kevin, but I think that the only real option is for a change of race night. I think that Eastbourne are already considering running on a different night to Saturday for example.

 

They wont go back to a one off final and so GP's will continue to run, and squad systems wont make too much difference as you are saying that its cheating the public to run without the GP riders.

 

Personally I would rather watch a few meetings each season without the GP riders than not see them here at all, which would inevitably happen if you forced riders to choose between the two. Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

[Kevin Meynell]

I think that the only real option is for a change of race night.

 

But why should British teams be forced to fit-in with the SGP, when they get nothing out of it?

 

They wont go back to a one off final and so GP's will continue to run

 

I agree and I don't advocate a return to a one-off final. However, the SGP should be (or at least should have been) run for the benefit of the domestic leagues which provide the bulk of the riders' income, rather than a private company (not that I'm knocking them for taking the opportunity).

 

In cricket, test and one-day matches provide most of the income of the English (and Welsh) county teams, so it's perfectly reasonable for the national team to call-up riders at the expense of the domestic programme. This is not the case with the SGP, which as far as I know, pays absolutely nothing to the leagues that develop the riders in the first place.

 

Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

 

I don't actually think you'd lose that many riders from Britain, but even if we lost all the SGP riders, I think it's a price worth paying to have a credible domestic competition again.

 

In reality, I think such action might force a compromise - such as a limited number of GPs (say six) during the season, a percentage of the SGP income (when it reaches a certain level) going to the leagues providing the riders, and no arbitrary arranging of cancelled GPs.

Edited November 4, 2004 by Kevin Meynell

[Trees]

I think that you're all kind of missing the fact that being in the GP's is also absolutely vital to pick up your big sponsorship. Its a lot easier to attract the big payers with the television coverage provided by the Grand Prix series.

It's needed too isn't it to be able to afford to run in the GP's??

[Marky_Mark]

Sure you may have one or two that opt to pull out but most of them could still earn good money riding GP's, Sweden and Poland.

 

I don't actually think you'd lose that many riders from Britain, but even if we lost all the SGP riders, I think it's a price worth paying to have a credible domestic competition again.

 

In reality, I think such action might force a compromise - such as a limited number of GPs (say six) during the season, a percentage of the SGP income (when it reaches a certain level) going to the leagues providing the riders, and no arbitrary arranging of cancelled GPs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry Kev, cant agree there. I would certainly not rather lose all SGP riders, and Im sure the league would be worse off with their absence. I do completely agree with you that the British league should not be inconvenienced either, my only answer to it is to run each week as normal and when GP riders are away you will simply have to run without them. As I said earlier on, I would rather have GP riders missing a few of my teams meetings than not seeing them at all.

[The Know]

Kevin may i ask why should bsi pay money to anybody, ie bspa or so on. British speedway has caused many problems for the s.g.p in the past. When a rider is invited into the s.g.p he signs a contract which overules all other contracts, this means the s.g.p comes first. No rider will put domestic speedway before s.g.p.

I think british speedway to be very stale and boring at the moment and only watch g.p racing, if riders are made to pick it will be even worse as we all know what the answer will be.

[Kevin Meynell]

Kevin may i ask why should bsi pay money to anybody

 

BSI does not develop the riders that it uses for the SGP, but relies on the national leagues (not just in Britain) to provide them. Some develop them to a greater or lesser extent, but without domestic competition and the wages it provides, there simply wouldn't be a SGP. In return, the SGP uses the riders at will, disrupts domestic league programmes, and offers nothing in the way of compensation.

 

British speedway has caused many problems for the s.g.p in the past.

 

Even if it did, I think it has every right to do so whilst riders rely on Britain for the bulk of their wages (not ignoring Poland and Sweden either).

 

When a rider is invited into the s.g.p he signs a contract which overules all other contracts, this means the s.g.p comes first.

 

I'm well aware of that, because events run under the auspices of the oh-so-representive FIM take priority. It doesn't make it right though.

 

No rider will put domestic speedway before s.g.p.

 

Well it would be interesting to put that to the test if an ultimatum was made. Do you think that riders could make a living solely out of the SGP as things stand at the moment?

 

I think british speedway to be very stale and boring at the moment

 

There is no doubt that British speedway has big problems of its own making, but that isn't the issue here.

 

and only watch g.p racing

 

Much of the interest in the SGP is by virtue of the participating riders' links to domestic teams. If you took that out of the equation, then I think the SGP would have very limited appeal.

 

In fact, we're already seeing that reflected in the poor attendances at the majority of the GPs. The expansion of the SGP has not been a huge success (except for one person), which demonstrates there is only a finite amount of interest in seeing the same riders race over-and-over again in individual competition.