Grachan Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 3 To ride for a safe second, thats not racing racing should be to win. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Personally I don't have a problem with that throughout the meeting as it is at present. With 2 people either risking elimination or being knocked out it is still very cut & thrust and being second isn't neccesarily safe until the race finishes. If the points are added up through the meeting as in the Long Track final, you are going to get riding for a safe second (or even third) in the actual final if it's enough to take the GP title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 3 To ride for a safe second, thats not racing racing should be to win. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the points are added up through the meeting as in the Long Track final, you are going to get riding for a safe second (or even third) in the actual final if it's enough to take the GP title. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is only true if the points are awarded like this season.If the points you score are your GP points then even if you have won the meeting you still have the chance to extend your lead or catch up on your rivals by winning the final heat.If you go into the final knowing you already have 25 points no matter what then nothing is gained from winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogH Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 On top of that, I don't like it when a rider can score a 15 point maximum in his programmed rides, then be KOd in the semi by an ef and finish 8th I would change the format of the knockout races, so that higher placed riders get a second chance if they miss out in their first race. For example... Heat 21: 5th to 8th placed riders (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 22: 1st to 4th placed riders Heat 23: 3rd and 4th in Heat 22, 1st and 2nd in Heat 21 (3rd and 4th eliminated) Heat 24: 1st and 2nd Heat 22, 1st and 2nd Heat 23 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like this idea, it keeps an element of the current system, whilst still ensuring every rider has 5 rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 The reasons for changing the present system are. 1. so riders dont travel 900 miles for 2 rides. 2. the points gap stay close between riders. 3. a fairer system with all riders getting the same amount of rides. 4.because you keep all your points from your rides if you dont get to the semi / final and the riders who do will lose theirs means it pays to be consistant and you dont always need to be in the final to be world champion. I think this system will be very good as the best and most consistant rider over 9 rounds will win, not the normal system where riders come in half way through a meeting and you then mostly have the same ones in the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 1. so riders dont travel 900 miles for 2 rides.3. a fairer system with all riders getting the same amount of rides. The way it used to be in fact? Of course, I suppose the real reason for reducing the number of riders has nothing to do with saving money? I think this system will be very good as the best and most consistant rider over 9 rounds will win Well, it worked for 60 years before the knockout lottery was introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Personally I don't have a problem with that throughout the meeting as it is at present. The biggest problem with the current format is that gate positions are a complete lottery. If you have the misfortune to be off the worst gate twice, then your meeting can be over very quickly. The current format is arguably exciting, but fair it is most certainly not. It's long past time for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I was happy with the introduction of the Grand Prix in '95, the old Championship format - not just the Final but the qualifying system too - had gone stale. But so too has the current GP system, to be honest I lost most of my interest 2 years ago. Most of what The Know wrote above is spot on, and who cares if part of the reason for change is to reduce costs, isn't that a good thing ? My only slight concern with the 2005 format is the fact that riders might have a permanent GP number AND a meeting number ?! Confusing for most of us halfwits I'd like to see practice, as it is, scrapped. And that pathetic flag-carrying nonsense after each heat. Oh, and half-price entry to all GP's for Polish fans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 My only slight concern with the 2005 format is the fact that riders might have a permanent GP number AND a meeting number ?! Confusing for most of us halfwits Surely it not different to the current (old now I guess) format where the 1-8 ride in heat 10 and 11(i think it's them two) and then the other number ride in the different heats dependant on number. Then obviously it goes by the last GP, the rider who won the last GP does not suddenty take over the number 1 race jacket, so why will it change? I'd imagine rider will onyl ever ride with there GP number regardless of what heats they ride in first. How did they do it in the original GP's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 who cares if part of the reason for change is to reduce costs, isn't that a good thing ? It doesn't matter, but let's not pretend the changes are for competitive reasons. The SGP prize money hasn't increased in years, and this is the cheapest way of giving the riders a pay rise (although it will be interesting to see if all the surplus prize money is re-distributed to the remaining riderra). The other reason is probably to reduce the costs of a GP, thus encouraging more venues to stage one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 How did they do it in the original GP's? Riders carried the same number throughout the series, but there was a draw before each GP to determine the riding order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Kevin you seem to think every thing is about cost. If you sat down with j.p and o.o and saw their plans for the future and their passion to make the event more competitive you would not see it as cost saving all the time. The prize money is to increase and be spread out more evenly between the 16 riders so the chap in say 14 place has more to spend on his set up. At present lower order gp riders get very little but next year they will get a much better deal alround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill leahy Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Ivan Mauger once slowed up in a race to make sure he wasn't # 5 or # 3 in the world final ,can't remember exactly, sure somebody out there will know, but his answer why he did this was that nobody had won over the 20 heat format from # 5, sure it was five, so it will be interesting to know who gets this number next year, there must be stats for the best and worst numbers to be in.......any body know ? what ever ! next year should be a lot more exciting from the first heat onwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePass Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I belive that he did it to avoid getting a riding number on World Final night that had two rides on the trot. A smart boy was Ivan I was lucky enougth to see him ride, what a style sp laid back. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 If you sat down with j.p and o.oand saw their plans for the future and their passion to make the event more competitive you would not see it as cost saving all the time. Plans are one thing, but reality is another. This said, I don't have a problem with the size of the SGP being cut, particularly if it makes it easier to hold rounds outside Europe. I also think it should make the series more competitive, because they are simply not enough riders of the required standard at the moment. However, all this is simply going back to the way the SGP was in the first place. The prize money is to increase and be spread out more evenly between the 16 riders Fine, but I suspect that if things hadn't changed, fewer and fewer riders would have been willing to take part in the series, particularly if there are plans to charge them to enter in the first place. BTW - you still have not enlightened us as to what relationship you have with BSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 (edited) Ivan Mauger once slowed up in a race to make sure he wasn't # 5 or # 3 in the world final ,can't remember exactly, sure somebody out there will know, but his answer why he did this was that nobody had won over the 20 heat format from # 5, sure it was five, so it will be interesting to know who gets this number next year, there must be stats for the best and worst numbers to be in.......any body know ? what ever ! next year should be a lot more exciting from the first heat onwards <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I believe riders WANT to ride at number 5, that way you get 2 gate ones and you go out in the last heat (from gate 1) knowing what is needed of you. Edited October 12, 2004 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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